Good afternoon. This morning I introduced the story in which the sayings of Enkan, Sai, and Isang, they are about all living beings have good nature and have not good nature. I'm ready to start to talk on Sections 8 and 9. These are about Wu-Buddha Nature and Mu-Buddha Nature. But in order to do so, yesterday at the introduction I briefly mentioned the first discussion about Wu and Mu-Buddha Nature in Section 4. But I didn't fully explain what this means, so let me go back to that place and start the talk, section 8 and 9.

[01:16]

If you have this book, page... section... 69. The story is about a conversation between a seven-year-old boy who became the fifth ancestor and his teacher's fourth ancestor. The story of the boy is interesting, but it's not... the topic I'm going to talk. So I just talk about their conversation. In that story, their conversation is not so difficult.

[02:17]

Very simple. The patriarch asked him, what is your name? Then the teacher met the boy. The teacher asked, what's your name? Then the boy replied, I have a name, but it is not an ordinary name. Then the teacher said, what name is that? The boy said, it is buddha nature. And the teacher said, you have no buddha nature. No buddha nature is mudra. You have no... I'll write it later. Then the boy said, you say no buddha nature because buddha nature is emptiness. This is not so difficult. Very simple question and answer. And this story shows the boy, the seven-year-old boy is very smart and that's all.

[03:26]

but Dogenrenji reads this conversation in a very different way. First, Peter's question is... You... the... And this SEI means family name, not a personal first name, but family name. That is your family name. Then the boy's reply is SEI SOKU NI The Jōshō.

[04:35]

The name is there. That means I have a name. But that is not an ordinary name. Then, The teacher said, VE GA SEI. Then, what is that name? What is your name? That is not an ordinary name. And the boy said, VE BUSHO. And the teacher said, Nyo Mubusho. You have no Buddha nature.

[05:43]

Then another boy said, Busho Ku. Because buddha nature is emptiness, therefore you say Mu or No. That is the Chinese characters of this conversation. I don't have much time, so I need to be in a hurry. From the bottom of page 69, Let me talk sentence by sentence. When we penetrate the atlas of the two patriarchs, we find that the fourth patriarch, what is your name?

[06:48]

What is your name? Contains a meaning of essential significance. It's a very simple question. What's your name? And Dogen said, this has a very important, deep meaning. In the past, there was a monk from the land of Phat. There was a family named Phat. So this Phat can be the name, family name. So this is not a question, but this is a statement. You are... Phat is your name. Your name is Phat. Here the Fourth Patriarch is teaching the boy, your family name is Phat. So Phat is your family name.

[07:50]

This is the same as saying, I am Das, you are Das too. So this Phat is the same as Das. Das is something like a inmo or hang. Hang or fap has no meaning. It makes the sentence a question. And in Chinese literature, those words are used to point out the reality beyond any definition, naming, labeling. or something which is unconditioned, formless. So, your name, or this Sei, this Sei, family name, and this Sho, as Buddha nature, is same sound, sing, x-i-n-g, both are sing in Chinese pronunciation.

[09:02]

So, your nature in fact is the meaning of this statement. That means your true nature is something unconditioned, beyond restriction. That's why this statement is same as I am thus, you are thus. And this I am thus, you are thus Hyo Inam's statement in the conversation with his student, Nanga Kuejo, you are thus, I am thus. Then, Fifth Ancestor said, se soku u, this se is nature. In this case, Buddha-nature. Buddha nature is itself. This Soku is the same as the Soku in Soku Shinzei Butsu.

[10:06]

The mind itself is Buddha. So, the being, or Buddha, Buddha nature, nature is itself being. That is how Dogen Zenji reads these three Chinese characters. The nature and being is the same thing. That means, usually nature is something unseen. And being is something concrete, which is seen, object of I. But Dogen reads this as Buddha-nature is itself being. And there is this. This as who is not. And jo is ordinary, but this also means permanent. So, that means this nature and being is not a permanent nature.

[11:12]

That is the same as showing us that impermanence is Buddha-nature. So, Buddha-nature is being, concrete being, and it is not permanent. It's an impermanent thing. sophisticated extent. I have a name but it's not an ordinary name. So this is boy's saying. My nature is being. And that is not a permanent being, a nature. In other words, a name, a name or a nature. A name, nature, That is self-identical with being. Self-identical means say nature is self-identical with being. A name that is self-identical with being is not unordinary or permanent name or nature.

[12:17]

So unordinary name or permanent nature is not self-identical with being. If nature, if Buddha nature is permanent, then it cannot be the same, identical with each and all beings that arise sometimes, stay for a while, and disappear, coming and going. That is, being is conditioned, like our life. We were born sometime in the past, and living for a while and disappear sometime in the future. So this is not permanent. And if the nature, Buddha nature, is permanent, then this body and mind, this five skandhas, that is constant, character is Buddha nature. But this being itself that is impermanent is Buddha nature.

[13:20]

That is what this statement is saying. according to Dogen. I'm not sure if that seven-year-old boy understands such a thing or not. And when the fourth patriarch sent, that name in that, that is, Re-Ka-Sei. What name or nature? Then, what is the nature? What is this nature? And, of course, this again is not a question, but this is... There means this, and this means something concrete, big. So, they are showing this each

[14:21]

of our being, very concrete being which is conditioned, is the nature of dustness. That is how Dogen reads these three characters. So this concrete being is the nature of dustness. Fat name is that. Fat is, in this translation, it says, Fat is an affirmation. Affirmation is the translation of this verb. But I don't agree with this translation. This is not affirmation, but this character can be affirmation if this is used together with him. ze and hi, hi means negation and ze means affirmation.

[15:28]

If this character is used as a compound or together with hi, this is affirmation and this is negation, but this is not. I think this means something very concrete that can be pointed as this. Path is this. Degasho, Dogen interpreted, this is path. Path is this. Darkness is this concrete thing. And this concrete, conditioned thing is self-darkness, the nature of darkness. He is Pat-I-L-G-Vis. That means, he makes... I don't like the word, makes... Zeo Kashi Hitareri.

[16:33]

I have no way to translate this. This means, make this into thus. Make this concrete beings as a a collection of five skeletons into dustness. And that is a function of nature. And fat is his name. So fat is his name. And fat, I-N-G, is possible, and this concrete being can be dustness, something unconditioned. Because it is this. Fatting with fat IMG is possible because it is this. Because this is something conditioned and impermanent.

[17:35]

That's five. This can be thus. That means things that is impermanent, and conditioned, that means there is no fixed self-nature, empty. That's why this can be thus. And this, again, this affirmation, his affirmation, again, this is possible by virtue of fact. So, this and fact support each other. and thisness, thisness of this being. That is, in the case of these five standards, shohaku. Shohaku is this. That means I'm conditioned. I was born in Japan in 1948 and I was I grew up in Japan and I was educated in Japan.

[18:48]

So I'm a Japanese. And somehow I became a Buddhist. So I'm a Japanese Buddhist. And I don't know why, but I became a priest. Or a monk. And so I'm a Japanese Buddhist priest. And now my job is a teacher. So I'm trying to teach. So I'm a Japanese Buddhist priest and also a teacher. This is me. This is shohaku. So it's limited. This is my karma. I'm conditioned. I cannot be Chinese. I can't be American. I can't be French. I have to be Japanese. I am Buddhist means I am not Christian or Islam or Taoist.

[19:48]

I am a Buddhist. And because I am a teacher, I have to talk. Terrible. To talk about Dharma in English is... Suzuki Roshi, that is hell. This is very hell to me. Anyway, this is my karma. But this is my karma. karmic nature. This karmic nature, that is, toys the very concrete, particular thing within time and space. And ka or fat or dust means there's no such thing. Though there's no such fixed or particular way to define this being, So, these five skandhas are peace and shok, as a Japanese Buddhist priest.

[20:53]

And yet, at the same time, I'm not half and half, but I'm a Japanese Buddhist priest, 100%. That is my karma. And yet, at the same time, this is not a Japanese, this is not a Buddhist, teacher. And I'm a teacher only when I teach. And I'm a Buddhist only when I compare myself with someone who is not Buddhist. And I'm a Japanese when I compare myself with someone who is not Japanese, like American, Chinese, or whatever nationality. So only when I think and compare and try to define and try to play a role. You know, I need to grasp who I am, my identity.

[21:56]

But that is not really the true nature of this being. I'm not a Japanese, actually. Let me finish my talk. Anyway, that is this and this actual concrete particular person or being is at the same time all-pervading. It's not something fixed. I'm living together with all beings and I'm not a human being even. And when I sit facing the wall and letting go, no, I'm not a Japanese, I'm not a Buddhist, I'm not a preacher, I'm not even a human being. which fat means. So, this and fat is the same thing, and yet it's not half and half.

[23:02]

But from one perspective, this is 100% this. And the same thing from another perspective, there's no such thing. So these two, not aspects, but two sides of one thing. Each side is 100%. His name is both this and that. His nature, this nature is both this and that. And this together, this and that together makes tea.

[24:05]

It is infused in herbal tea. Then it makes tea. These two are completely one thing. Taste one thing. And it is infused in your ordinary tea. So, ordinary tea in our ordinary life is kind of an intersection of these two. this and that, or this and that. That is karmic nature and buddha nature. Then the Fifth Patriarch said, it is buddha nature. It is or this is buddha nature. And this combination of this and that is buddha nature. Essentially this means that this is the Buddha nature. This concrete being is self-Buddha nature.

[25:12]

Because this is fact, because this being is fact or thus, this is Buddha nature. That means this is not really this. This is at the same time fact. something unconditioned. That is why this conditioned being can be called Buddha nature. That means there is no fixed self-nature. But can... Again, this it is not... It's affirmation. It's not it's affirmation. This... But can this be free, comprehended only in fat name? Fat name. This is fat, thus not something which is unconditioned.

[26:14]

And when this is not this, when this is not this, this is Buddha nature. This means here, through there, not this. This and not this. When this is not this, when this is not this, that is buddha-nature. That means, when this person, shohaku, is not shohaku, then this is buddha-nature. That means shohaku is here and yet this is not really shohaku. This is just a collection of five skandhas. And then we see this one being from two sides. This and not this. And that is Buddha nature.

[27:14]

So this is something like to define this as shohaku as a Japanese Buddhist priest, that is, if we use the expression Dogen used in Kamsa Zengi, this is thinking. And this is shohaku, thinking. And this is not thinking. There are no such things called shohaku. So we just think. And that thinking, think of not thinking, is beyond thinking, or hi shiryo, that is busho. So, ze and fude and busho are the same as thinking, not thinking, and beyond thinking. And Dogen Zenji says in Shodogenjo Tazenshin, in order to think of not thinking, we use beyond thinking. So, in order to be this person, shohaku, as a Buddhist priest,

[28:22]

I need to see this is not really Shokaku, and this is not really a Buddhist priest. When we see this concrete being from two sides, then we can see Buddha nature as beyond thinking. Hence, although this is fact, although this is fact, and this is Buddha. This is fact and this is Buddha. When that is fully broken through and cast off, it is without faith and nature. Fully broken through and cast off is Datsuraku.

[29:25]

Same Datsuraku as dropping off body and mind. Shinjin Datsuraku. So, there is cast off itself. Our, you know, mind, you know, being pleased, pleased, pleased, I'm sure, is cast off. Then, that is Brahman. Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't think I understand. So, he is discussing about Buddha nature in terms of two sides of one concrete being. And when we see in that way, he says, hence the name for nature is Cho. And Chou is a family name of this boy, or Shou.

[30:35]

When this, that is Zei, this guy called himself an adult bushou. Ten shohak is free from shohak. Then Buddhist priest is free from Buddhist priest. Then that is buddhahood. So there is no clinging, no grasping. And yet... And yet, this is something like... You know, put the gear into neutral and into some gear. Buddha nature is so something to put the gear into neutral. That means I don't need to function as a Buddhist priest. When I'm sitting facing the wall, I don't need to be a Buddhist.

[31:38]

I need to be a teacher. I don't need to be a husband or a father or whatever. I'm really released from being this person. But when I sit here in the zendo, you know, I have to do something. I have to function as a teacher, Buddhist teacher. So I put a gear into that. So I try to do my best. This is ubu-shio, ubu-dai-shio. And when I put the gear into neutral, I'm nothing. I don't need to be anything. I'm really released from shohak, or Buddhist teacher, or whatever role I have to play. That is mu-bushsho. And uru-bushsho and mu-bushsho are always together. Of course, it helps.

[32:41]

Please. all the time? I think it's possible, but it doesn't move. Why not? If you don't want to move, that's fine. You can stay there. But in order to move or function as a car, somehow... How does Buddha nature move? Buddha nature moves as shohak, as a karmic person, shohak, as a Buddhist priest. So it's not just one instant, but in case of flowers and trees and stuff, you're saying that it moves through them too? Yeah, flower is flowering. And it has to move, I mean, otherwise it's just... Yeah, it's moving, it's changing. So changing impermanence is a movement of buddha-nature. Something which doesn't move. So if the world is dead, there's no buddha-nature? World is alive. If there is such a world, but unfortunately I cannot be such a world.

[33:52]

So this world and all beings in this world is an intersection of being and non-being, or this and that. which means, and that is buddha nature, and that buddha nature means we can move, we can change. I don't need to be always shohaku, or this person, or because I'm shohaku and I have certain experiences and karma, I think I cannot do this thing or that thing, but I can do this thing. But because it's impermanent, there's always a possibility I can change. I can grow. Otherwise, I'm fixed. That is what Buddha nature means.

[34:56]

Buddha nature means the conditioned, karmic, deluded person can change and sometimes in the future can be Buddha. That is what Buddha nature means. But according to Dogen, it's not a matter of two different times, but we always, we are conditioned and at the same time always we are unconditioned. That fire we can change, we can move, we can grow, we can live. So this is his interpretation of impermanence. And this impermanence is Buddha nature. Then the fourth patriarch says, you have no Buddha nature.

[36:00]

This utterance reveals that although you are not someone else, You are not someone who says, I need to be shohaku. And yet, you are entirely you. You are mu buddhanidja. Even though this is a conditioned karmic person named shohaku, but still, at the same time, can be mu buddhanidja. That means completely unconditioned. That means completely free. dropped off, that means liberated. Another question. You should know, and you should study, what is the temporal occasion now when you have moved to nature? And this temporal occasion is always right now, right here. Are you moved to nature when you have freely attained Buddhahood?

[37:06]

You move the nature and you go beyond Buddhahood. This means Buddhahood is about practice. We should walk the way toward Buddhahood. But Buddhahood is not the goal. When we reach Buddhahood, we should go beyond Buddhahood. There is no end. We keep going. Keep practicing. That is also the meaning of non-fixed nature in other Buddha. Next few sentences he is saying we should investigate this reality from many different ways. Do not restrict non-Buddha nature by groping around for it. At times, you practice and realize that no buddha nature is a single term of samadhi.

[38:15]

This is practice. I mean, other than a real manifestation of no buddha nature. And you should be asking and should be asking. Am I no buddha nature when buddha nature attains buddhahood? Am I no buddha nature when buddha nature begins aspiring for enlightenment? That means when Buddha nature allows body and mind to become Buddha. You should have even the temple pillars asking. Not only living beings as so on, but each and everything. You should be asking the temple pillars. You should have the Buddha nature asking too. So Buddha nature asking Buddha nature. That means everything is Buddha nature. Hence, the utterance, Mu buddha-nature, reverberates far beyond the chambers of the fourth patriarch.

[39:18]

It has seen and heard in Hsuan-mei. Hsuan-mei is the place where Fifth Ancestor lived. And it circulated freely in Chao-chu with Joshu. Because later, when we discuss about Joshu, Dogutsu U-Buddha Nature and Mu-Buddha Nature. And also, it was exalted in Kaikei. Kaikei is I-San in Section 9. We already discussed about it. This 9 is the same. You must devote yourself without fail to the truth of the Mu-Buddha Nature. So we have to practice Mu-Buddha Nature. never cease in your effort. So we should really study and practice Move Buddha Nature. And although with Move Buddha Nature, you may have to grow, grow your way along, there is a touchstone, and that touchstone is fat.

[40:31]

This fat is a touchstone of Move Buddha Nature. And there is a temporal condition That is you. This you, me. And there is entrance into its dynamic function. This entrance of dynamic function is this. Again, in this translation it says affirmation, but it's this, this particular thing. And there is a common name, or nature, that is true, all-pervading. and it is a direct and unimmediate access. Then the Fifth Patriarch, the boy, Zatons, used to say, move buddha-nature because buddha-nature is emptiness. Articulate clearly and distinctly the truth that emptiness is not known. So here, emptiness is not a negation.

[41:35]

In uttering Buddha nature emptiness, one does not say half a pound. One does not say eight ounces. One says Mu. This means eight ounces or half a pound and Mu is the same thing. So Mu is not lack of existence. But Mu is Movement means beyond our clinging, grasping. So freedom. Because it is emptiness, you do not say emptiness. That means, if it's really empty, you don't need to say this is empty. That means, if you use the word emptiness, still already we put something on it. And that word, is already, how can I say, fixed.

[42:40]

A concept. A concept is permanent. But the reality itself is impermanent. Because it is moved, you do not say moved. When it is really moved, you do not need to say moved. You say Mu because it is Buddha-nature emptiness. Hence, every piece of Mu, each and every thing is a piece, every piece of Mu. We are one piece of Mu, is a touchstone to articulate emptiness, meaning this and not this. Emptiness is the capacity to articulate Moon. This is not the emptiness of Form is Emptiness.

[43:43]

Form is Emptiness is from the Heart Sutra. Form is Emptiness or Shikisoku Zen Fu. Form is Emptiness. Form is Emptiness does not mean Form is forced into Emptiness. Form is being and emptiness is non-being. So, when we say form is empty or emptiness, it seems like this form should be empty. Or, when we say, when we do that, or form is really empty, we don't need to say form is emptiness. Because when we say form, emptiness is already there. And form is really empty. When we say emptiness, form is already there.

[44:45]

So we don't need to say form is emptiness. That is what Dogen said in Shobo Genzo Makahane Haramitsu, or his comment on the Heart Sutra. And he's saying the same thing here. Now, is it making form out of emptiness? It has to be the emptiness of emptiness is emptiness. It has to be the emptiness of emptiness is emptiness. This is ku ze ku. Ku is itself ku. That's all it is. We don't need to say emptiness is Form. Emptiness is emptiness. Form is form. That's it. And the emptiness of emptiness is emptiness. It's a piece of rock in emptiness. A piece of rock in emptiness.

[45:49]

That means there's a rock in emptiness. This rock is empty. Well, I don't have time to explain what this means. So, this being so, the fourth and the fifth patriarch are asking and articulating buddha-nature, mu, buddha-nature, ku, or emptiness, and buddha-nature, being. So, being is u. U, mu, and ku are all buddha-nature. That is how Nogen interprets this conversation between the fourth ancestor and the body. And this is the starting point of Nogen's discussion of wu buddha-nature and mun buddha-nature. And we go to section 8.

[46:52]

In the original story, first, it says, Isan, Reiyu said living beings or sentient beings have no buddha nature. But here, Dogen first got Incan science thing. National teacher, I don't know how to pronounce this, let me say, call him Enkan Sairam, a distinguished priest and disciple of Matsu Wataso, once taught his disciples, all sentient beings have the buddha nature. All sentient beings have the buddha nature. It's a translation of all living beings or sentient beings who have buddha nature. Let me read this section first.

[48:10]

The word all sentient beings should be penetrated forthwith. The inner and external karma of sentient beings is not the same. Their ways of viewing things are different. They are unenlightened. non-Buddhist adherents, the three vehicles, five vehicles, and so forth. As for all sentient beings in the Buddha way, all things possessed of mind are called sentient beings, because mind is a such sentient being. Things not possessed of mind are also sentient beings. because sentient beings are as such mind. Hence all mind is sentient being and sentient beings all are being Buddha nature.

[49:18]

Hence all mind is sentient being and sentient beings all are being Buddha nature. Grass and trees, nation and state are mind because they are mind. They are sentient beings. Because they are sentient beings, they are being buddha nature. Some monsters and planets are mind. Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. Because they are sentient beings, they are being buddha nature. The being buddha nature uttered by national teacher Achi and Wasei-an is just like this. If it were not like this, it would not be the being-Buddha-nature, or true Bisho, that is uttered in the Buddha-nature. Here, the essential significance of the National Teacher's utterance is simply, all sentient beings being-Buddha-nature.

[50:24]

In that case, they could not be being-Buddha-nature. unless they were sentient beings. So we should ask the natural teacher, are all Buddhas being Buddha nature or not? We should probe and question things in this way. We should examine why it is not said all sentient beings are as such Buddha nature. Why instead it is said all sentient beings are being buddha nature. The being of being, a being of being, being buddha nature must without fail fall away. This falling away is a single steel rod. A single steel rod is the curse of a bird in flight.

[51:27]

all buddha-natures are being sentient beings. This is a truth that not only preaches away sentient beings, but also preaches completely buddha-nature as well. Even if the natural teacher did not give direct expression to his understanding just as it was, That does not mean there will not come a time when he will be able to do so. Nor does it mean the words he speaks at this time are ineffectual or devoid of essential meaning. Again, although he himself has not necessarily grasped the truth he embodies in himself, He is nondualness, possessed of the four elements, five skandhas, and skin, flesh, bone and marrow, body of the Buddha nature.

[52:38]

Sometimes, in this way, a real atonement may take a lifetime to make. Sometimes, one may be negated for several lifetimes, in making an atlas without knowing it. So this is Dogen's comment on the saying of Zen master N. Kansai-yan about all living beings are good by nature. And first he discussed what is, then, all living beings. In this translation, sentient beings. And as a Buddhist term, the inner and external karma of sentient beings is not the same. That means each one of us has different karma.

[53:45]

Therefore, the way of viewing things are different. So each one of us has different karma, different experiences, in the past. So the way we think, the way we view things are different. Because as my karma, I'm Japanese, I think using Japanese language. And if now I'm thinking in Japanese, I'm speaking in English. This is my karma, very twisted karma. Very difficult thing. But this is my karma. So we are all different as a karmic being. And there are unenlightened beings, non-Buddhists, adherents of the three vehicles, five vehicles, and so forth. So there are many different sentient beings. Dogen said that is not how centered beings here refer to in the sayings of Enkan Saiyan.

[55:02]

That means centered beings are not only human beings. As for all centered beings in the Buddha way, so this is the point he wants to make it clear that Buddha nature is something existing within human beings as a karmic nature. But the Buddha nature or the mind that is self-Buddha is this network of interdependent origination. That is why he said, as for all sentient beings in the Buddha way, All things possessed of mind are called sentient beings. Because mind is as such sentient beings. This mind is a seeing.

[56:06]

So beings which have this seeing are sentient beings. And this is a common definition of what sentient beings means. Sentient means person who has a mind. and sentiment. But next one is kind of a unique thing to Dogen. Things not possessed of mind are also sentient beings. That means, who don't have mind, mooshin, wooshin, and mooshin. And that means mooshin is one kind of mind. It's not a lack of mind. and wuxin is another kind of mind or heart. So both wuxin and muxin or beings with wuxin and beings with muxin are sentient beings.

[57:07]

Therefore, all mind is sentient beings. All mind, both muxin and wuxin, are sentient beings. and sentient beings all are being buddha nature. So grass and trees, nature and state are mind. This is same as Dogen said in the mind, in Shogun's mind, Sokushinzebutsu, mind itself is buddha as one mind is all things and all things are one mind. So grass and trees, nation and state, are mind. Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. So grass and trees, nation and state, are all sentient beings, and therefore they are buddha-nature, u-buddha-nature.

[58:14]

And sun, moon, stars and planets are mind. Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. Because they are sentient beings, they are being who? They are nature. So, actually, each and everything in this Dharma world is the nature. Because they are all sentient beings. And the being-Buddha-nature uttered by Master Artecha Saiyan is like this. We should interpret his saying in this way, that all beings within the network of interdependent origination is one mind. And that is being-Buddha-nature. Is that how... I can't remember where the text is from, beings are constantly expounding Dharma?

[59:23]

Yeah. That is mojo setpo. Mojo setpo is insentient, expounding Dharma. That is like a sand of valleys and colors of mountains are expounding Dharma. According to Dogen's saying here, those things, sound of a valley stream, and colors of mountains are sentient beings. I have a question. Unless you transcend or transmigrate the mind to body-mind, then you can say you have the Buddha nature. So in that case, could you say all sentient beings are in practice? I don't say that, you know, necessarily just a practice would be the only way of transmigration of mind to body-mind, but could you say all the extension of this?

[60:31]

I'm sorry, I think you were not here yesterday, but I think I said that point yesterday. In the morning, yesterday or in the afternoon? I think so. What is... Morning Korai in the afternoon, I forget. I don't know. I wasn't paying the morning support for that. Part of the expression. Buddha nature is all together with attaining Buddhahood. Yes, OK. That means unless we have practice, and unless we let go of our thought, unless that Nama Rupa ceases existing as a Nama Rupa, Those are not good nature or whatever. This is the way the person who is liberated from this dichotomy of self and object.

[61:41]

As we go beyond or liberate from this separation or dichotomy of self and object, the object starts to reveal as they are, thusness. As far as we are seeing things using our, how can I say, thinking mind, or desire, based on desire, or consciousness, then these don't express buddhadharma. So subject and object would be two sentient beings, non-human sentient beings. Pardon? I said if subject and object, according to your explanation, would be something other than human beings, like for example a tree and a mountain, would they go through the same process of arising their body?

[62:53]

Well, I don't know what I'm saying, but as far as the realization, would they have the same kind of advancement? I don't know. I'm sorry. I think that is what Dogen is saying. He's talking about the practice Mù xīn seems different than just saying without mind. Yeah, mù xīn is not a lack of mind. But mù xīn is mind of mù. This linguistic question, we don't have a word in the English language that behaves like that. just like what and this always point at objects. Does Mu in Japanese or what in Japanese have this ability to point at what can't be pointed at?

[64:00]

Or is it just Dogen doing that? Not only Dogen, but in Chinese texts, Chinese Zen masters often use this expression, what or how, in order to point of satsang cannot be defined or grasped. Because part of the problem is people train in the West, learning English in the West, we have words that relate to objects. That's the problem of translation. It's really difficult. And who and more is the same. Being, unknown being, doesn't make sense to me. Who and more makes sense to me. That's kind of what I'm getting at. But in terms of rich poetic tradition, I think but I imply something intangible. Do you find that in place? Of course, in English, our American Zen Master can find some.

[65:06]

Well, no, it is developing. I'm glad you're doing this, because I think it might even come from you. We were talking about non-compulsion, non-permission. Then he writes about it. He put the darkness. He put the grass, trees, and walls. He's putting the darkness. He acts that. We don't do that. We have a landscape. I have a question. You are in the page 85 in this book. You were reading Grass and Tree Nation and Sticker Mind. Because they are mind, they are sentient beings. So, this is how Dogen interprets all living beings in the sense of inconsilience.

[66:13]

And he said, if we don't understand this world in this way, it's not a good way. And next Shogun said, this person's Zen Master's saying is not complete. He only refers to being Buddha, our Uyghur Shogun. Here, the essential significance of the natural teacher's appearance is simply all sentient beings being Buddha-nature is u-bhushu. He only points out u-bhushu as being. So, Dogen is questioning to the Master. In that case, they could not be being Buddha-nature unless they

[67:17]

were sentient beings. He said, sentient beings are both sentient and insentient, so it includes everything. But he said, but if we simply here take this incantation, all living beings are buddha nature, then only living beings or sentient beings are buddha nature. and his question is part about Buddha. So we should ask the natural creature, are all Buddhas being Buddha nature or not? Does Buddha have Buddha nature or not? Does Buddha need to have Buddha nature? If the Buddha is already Buddha, why does Buddha need Buddha nature? Only human beings need, not human beings, only bodhisattva need buddha nature.

[68:24]

Buddha is already buddha, so buddha doesn't need buddha nature. But anyway, this is the question to, Dogen's question to the Master. Are all buddhas being buddha nature or not? We should probe and question things in this way. That means we should really inquire very precisely and in detail. So we have to really think in order to clarify what is Buddha nature, what is Buddha way, what is our practice. It's not a vague thing. Our practice is very simple and straightforward and precise. When we sit, just sit. When we eat, just eat.

[69:28]

When we cook, just cook. That's all. But this just do, or in the case of Zazen, just sit, or Shikantaba, does handle very, how can I say, very precise and kind of a logical, not an explanation, but a philosophical background. So if we try to understand the meaning of this just doing something, sitting, or eating, or cooking, or cleaning, it has really deep meaning. So we need to inquire what this means, even though And we should examine why it is not said, all sentient beings are as such buddha nature.

[70:33]

This as such is Issai-shijo-soku-bussho. So, why this master didn't say, all sentient beings are soku-bussho. But instead he said, all sentient beings are u-bussho. What the meaning, what the difference between these two expressions? So, he is asking and he doesn't give any answer. That means he is asking to us. And next, he is saying we should take this and digest this within our practice. That is, The being of being-Buddha nature must, without fear, fall away. Fall away.

[71:35]

I don't think this is a good translation, but this is another translation of Asura. Dropping off. So being of being-Buddha nature, or U-Busho, should be dropped off. Then only Buddha nature remains. And this dropping off, fading away, and falling away, or drop off, or datsuraku, is a single steel rod. One piece of steel rod. That means one single path of practice. And it's very solid. There's no way to bend. very straightforward path of bodhisattva-dharmakaya, the buddhahood. And yet, this single steel rod, as our practice, is a path of birds in flight.

[72:39]

Path of birds is an expression from Tozan, Tozan Ryokai, the founder of Soto, Chinese Soto school. And that means, you know, this is the path of migrating birds. You know, each bird has different routes of course, of paths of migrating very far. And yet somehow, they know their path, their way, how to, where, which direction they should go. And yet, there is no trace, there is no sign on the path. So, they fly the same, exactly the same path each year, but the trace is not remained. And our practice should be the same. That means, traceless practice.

[73:40]

That means, we cannot say, I have been practicing for 35 years. And I did, you know, how many sessions? If we are thinking in such a way, our past is not traceless. So, that means we just keep going. Keep going without thinking how far we have been from it. So, this means, this Uruvushot should be simply practiced. fall happily and keep flying without remaining in the trace. Since all buddha-natures are being-sentient beings, he changed the order. All buddha-nature have shuzo, living beings. This is the way we become kind of liberating from the concept and grasping to the concept.

[74:58]

You know, if we only say all living beings have buddha nature, then we have certain fixed concept is created in our mind. All living beings have buddha nature and these can be one. but he always changes the order or makes it almost nonsense. That means we have to always destroy the so-called ready-made concept of Fatui's Buddha nature, Fatui's living beings, Fatui's Buddha. This is a kind of process of deconstruction. This process of reconstruction is a process of revelation. Whatever we grasp, whatever we understand, we need to become free from that understanding and keep sitting, keep practicing.

[76:03]

Is that in your practice, referring to insight in Zazen or not? Insight? Something we see? Sometimes I might ask a question and Zazen there may be an insight into the answer. In our Dazen we just keep letting go. Letting go is a process of liberation. And yet if insight means we are thinking about that thing, or if we follow Dazen's way of thinking, then that is not Dazen. Knowing or wisdom are not a certain thing. So what Dojo is saying is, just be. Don't think. No, don't think. Or just see. Don't think. Yeah, but knowing is not thinking. Right. Knowing is knowing.

[77:08]

It's not thinking. But we think what we know. Let's see. So this is the truth that not only it breaches away, I don't know what breaches away means, but the word Dogen used is set-to, set is to explain or discuss, and to is liberation. So then, or going through, go through something, some kind of walls or obstacles. This is also meaning liberation. Even though we discuss and explain and express, still we need to be free from that explanation, that wording, that concept. And that is the road to liberation.

[78:09]

This is the truth that not only preaches away sentient beings, but also preaches completely Buddha-nature as well. So this is a process of revelation. Otherwise we are chained by the idea of Buddha-nature. Even if the natural teacher did not give direct expression to his understanding, just as it was, that does not mean there will not come a time when he will be able to do so. That means, Dogen says, this expression by Enkan Sainan is not perfect. We should, you know, make more deeper, broader, detailed... what is the word?

[79:20]

Inquire. Inquiring. But the Master is still in the process of his thing. Nor does it mean the words he speaks at this time are ineffectual or devoid of essential meaning. So this is not incorrect. This is not a mistake. But this is incomplete. Again, although he himself has not necessarily grasped the truth he embodies in himself, so even though he seeing the truth, but he is not yet ready to express it completely. He is nonetheless possessed of the four elements, five skandhas and skin, flesh, bone and marrow, body of the Buddha nature.

[80:22]

So we have all five skandhas and skin, flesh, bone and marrow. That is Buddha nature. That is all we have, but still we don't understand Buddha nature. This is our life, and our life is Buddha nature. But we don't see, we don't understand, and we cannot express the Buddha nature within our day-to-day activities. So, that's why we need to practice. And practice is also a function of Buddha nature. And sometimes, in this way, a real utterance may take a lifetime to make. It's really difficult to make even one very short expression which really expresses the Dharma of Buddha nature.

[81:29]

And he said, sometimes one may be engaged for several lifetimes in making un-utterance without knowing it. So, you know, buddhas and ancestors creating some utterance or expression of Dharma, but it takes really long time. and long experiences of practice. And the fact is that it takes several or many lifetimes to create very precise expression of Dharma. So, even those Chinese masters are not complete. So it's almost saying that it's best left unsaid, right?

[82:34]

It's saying that it's just experience through practice. Yeah. Not in a guinsoy. Hm? Not in a guinsoy. Any questions? Yes? I read this. Let me just ask you this last paragraph. It says, even if the national fetus did not deliver the birth, Again, although he himself has not necessarily grasped, he's not saying he hasn't. He's saying, you the listener can't tell. Is that right? And maybe he as a speaker can't tell either. I think he didn't go entirely to his right. But you said earlier that he couldn't tell. I have a question. We are studying also in the breakfast period the Tenzo Kyokun. The Tenzo Kyokun is a very precise day-to-day life of the Tenzo or the chief.

[83:41]

Who shows the Tenzo Kyokun? How is their day-to-day? Phat Thogen is discussing or explaining in Tenzo Teochew, how Wu buddhanature works. You know, Tenzo is one particular karma or condition. I need to be at Tenzo, means I have to work in the kitchen and prepare meals for members of the community. You know, this is same as a teacher. and because I am a Buddhist teacher or a priest, I have to, as my duty or responsibility, I try to do my best to present my understanding of Dharma. That is my, not only responsibility, but this is a way of Buddha nature.

[84:52]

is working through this body and mind of Showaku. And in the Tenzo Kyokun, Gogen Rinji used the example of Tenzo working in the kitchen, how this all-good nature functions in our daily lives, works together with people who work together in the kitchen, and also with the food ingredients, and also water or fire, and any utensils. And also, in order to be tenzo, we have to think of timing, timing of doing things. In order to offer the food in the best conditions, timing is very important. We cook, you know, the cooking preparation is done long before eating.

[85:58]

The taste might be, I can say, not the best. So we have to think of time. And we also need to think of numbers. How many people are there who eat fish meal? important. Quality, quantity, and timing is three most important things in the work of Tenzo. And this is how, you know, in our kitchen, the Buddha nature works, I think. And, you know, Tenzo Kyokun Dogen taught, teaches, What kind of inner attitude that person who is working in the kitchen needs to maintain to function as an expression of buddha-nature, of buddha-nature?

[87:10]

And when we sit in the Zen, we are no buddha-nature. We are completely free. But how can we express this no buddha-nature? conditioned body and mind within certain conditioned situation is another aspect of our practice. So, sitting for zazen and working as a zen-do is basically the expression of mu-buddha-nature and u-buddha-nature. So, buddha-nature is really a practice I wish.

[88:02]

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