worthy to be up on this seat. In fact, that's what's been coming up in listening to the previous talks. There have been many things said during these past two weeks, and I don't really feel adequate, or as I said, worthy to address this group. And I don't really know what I'm going to say,

[01:05]

and I'm a little bit frightened of what I might say. Because in a group like this, it's very easy, I think, to not be sensitive. We have people from all over the world here, and many cultures. And when we sit together, and we practice together, and we do orioke, and we do service, and we do zazen, it flows really beautifully. In fact, I was thinking that this has been better than any group therapy that we could have done for the past two weeks, to heal some of the wounds and some of the problems that I've created just practicing together like this. And probably, for me,

[02:13]

one of the most profound effects of these two weeks has been the opening of communication and the dropping of any kind of ill feelings, or any kind of bad feelings that maybe I've been harboring. Maybe some of you have been harboring, too. For me, since the very beginning of what I call my own practice, the most important thing has been sitting. I came upon zen not by reading, not by hearing about zen. I didn't know anything about zen.

[03:14]

Just simply, I was having a difficult time in my own personal life, and I had to get some space, and I think all of you can relate to that. So I went with two friends out into the desert, the Mojave Desert, and we were hiking around and having a good time, and somehow we got separated, and I found myself climbing this mountain. And that's what I seem to enjoy doing when I go places, climb mountains. I went up on this mountain, and I was sitting, contemplating my life, contemplating difficulties I was in. And thinking about the question of life and death.

[04:16]

Not so much death as life. And where is home? Where is home? Now, I hadn't read anything about Buddhism or zen, so I didn't know that maybe the question should have been where is my original home? Just asking where is home? And I could see the van, I had a VW camper parked out there, and I thought, well, that's where I'm spending the night, maybe that's home. Then I thought back to my home in Long Beach, maybe that's home. And then something happened. And I realized, I am home. This is home. Wherever I am is home. How can I ever leave home?

[05:21]

But with that shift away, or whatever that was, I still, to this day, it was 24 years ago, I don't know what to call that. I realized that the entire direction of my life was in the wrong direction. It was all about gain. Trying to gain fame as an athlete, trying to gain position, money, and security. And I realized that this pursuit was completely empty. Completely empty. And that the only thing that has any meaning is really just knowing oneself,

[06:29]

or whatever we call it, waking up. And right then, it became the natural thing, it seems, to want to share that with anyone, everyone. And when I reflect on this Tuka Betsu Sesshin, that's what keeps coming back to me. Why are we here? For me, the constant koan is how to transmit this Dharma, this teaching of awakening to others. Now, we can say nothing to transmit, because in fact, that's true, in a way.

[07:33]

But how can we create a situation, a practice, a setting, an environment, a context, where people have the opportunity to awaken from our dream, from our illusion? And one thing for sure, we have to take into consideration the time, the place, and the people involved. I have two children, and their mother is Chinese. Now, my children, our children, live in this country.

[08:35]

Now, of course, it's a very natural instinct for all of us to wish somehow to continue our life on. To survive. And there are various ways that we can do this. One of them is by having children. We live on through our children. We pass on our name, we pass on our genes, we pass on our looks through our children. And it gives us a sense of meaning, a purpose in our life. But if my wife, former wife, hopes that in five, six generations, that her descendants look like her,

[09:42]

I'm afraid she'd be very disappointed. Of course, she wouldn't be alive by then. Because the chances growing up in this country, for them to look Chinese in five generations, is pretty slim. And yet, we're facing the very same koan here. It's completely understandable and natural that the Dharma spending so much time with so many people, giving their lives, surrendering their lives to ensure that this shobo, this true Dharma, is transmitted, is transmitted properly. It is only natural, and with great compassion,

[10:47]

that these great teachers want to be sure that what takes root in our soil, not only here in America, but also in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico, South America, is the genuine thing. But also, just as for sure, we all realize impermanence. We all realize that nothing is stable. Nothing. And that this Dharma, in its appearance, is going to change. When this Dharma was transmitted from India to China, within six generations, it changed drastically. And again, when the Dharma was transmitted

[11:52]

from China to Korea, China to Japan, it changed. Not the essence, and this is what we have to be sure, that the essence is not diluted. That the glasses, when we pour from one container to the other, it could be the best wine, the best champagne, but if the glass is dirty, if the glass is not really clean and prepared properly, it can become diluted. So we have to be sure that each vessel, and that's what all of you are. Vessels. Vessels for this Dharma. Someone asked me, why don't you talk about Dharma? What is Dharma? To make it simple, you are Dharma. You are the Dharma. But the only way

[13:03]

to really bring that alive is through practice. And through practice, there is realization. And with realization, then there can be truly the actualization. Or the manifestation of this Dharma. So of course, we want to be sure that that essence is true. That the spirit of Zen is not lost. And my biggest fear, to be perfectly honest, is that we still could lose it. We can't lose the Dharma. But somehow we might,

[14:06]

without the genuine realization, lose the essence. We can get caught up in all kinds of limbs and leaves and not get to the root. And I'd hate to see us get so caught up that what is most essential is missed. And that responsibility is really up to each one of us. And definitely five, six generations down the line, it is not going to look Japanese. And if there is anyone here who is hoping that five, six generations down the line it is going to, they are going to be very disappointed. Of course, maybe they won't be alive.

[15:17]

And yet we each have the responsibility to be sure that in this transformation, in this transforming, we do not lose what is most essential. I remember when it was time for me to leave Los Angeles Zen Center. One of my last doksan was Roshi. Actually, it was the last couple. He said to me, Don't lose the point. Don't lose the point. And I remember thinking, What's the point? And being kind of not so bright, I said, Well, the one point I do know is Dazen.

[16:22]

So at least we can sit. So that's what we did. We've been sitting a lot. Which brings up a whole other point. And that is, that I would hate to see us get so narrow-minded that we think that the Dharma can only look a certain way and can only be practiced in a certain way. I hope we have big-mind attitude. That in our mandala, there is room to embrace all the various ways

[17:24]

to transmit this Dharma. And to all kinds of people. That there is not just one way monastic way. It so happens we're doing a very monastic practice in Utah. But I see the consequences of that. We lost most of our lay members. They feel somehow inadequate because they can't sit as much as all the monks. And we have something like 45-48 monks. And monks are sitting seven hours a day. Sometimes some of them have to go to work. But very often that's the schedule. And so the lay people feel inadequate. But I don't say that's the only way to practice. In fact, I don't even know if that's the best way.

[18:25]

We started off trying to be a lay Sangha. And I would like somehow to be able to open it up more to the entire Sangha. And we do have lay people practicing. But that has been a problem in the Confucianism. But I would hope that we have an attitude where all the various practices can be embraced and that there is room for all of them within Soto Zen. How do lay people practice? What is their future? Is it possible for lay people to become teachers? Right now, it's not so clear. And what about women? We have many fine women teachers now.

[19:33]

But one of the common complaints that I hear amongst women is that the practice is basically a male monastic model. Now, I'm not saying that as a male teacher that I'm able to make those changes. But I hope that I have enough trust and enough faith in my female successor or successors right now it's only one to trust her to expound and express the teaching in a way that feels really adequate and appropriate for her. Now, indirectly, I am talking about transmission. Like before my talk today, I told Roshi, I said, Roshi, if you want to take the night off,

[20:34]

please, feel free. And he said, no, no, no. I come to your talk. And I said, Roshi, I don't really feel like I'm going to give a very good talk. And he says, oh, I have 100% confidence in you. And I was thinking, that is the transmission. That's what I feel towards my successor. 100% confident. That however she expresses herself, it is the expression of the Buddha. That is heart-to-heart transmission. That's what Maizumi Roshi has been transmitting. That's what other teachers,

[21:35]

like Suzuki Roshi, and others here have been transmitting. One of the subjects is about precepts. One of the, what do you call it, what's the word I'm looking for, themes, thank you. I almost said scenes. One of the themes is about precepts. And I don't know if I want to get into more of the academic, because that's been very well touched. But I want to say something about it. We start off with the first three precepts,

[22:38]

which are actually what we call the three treasures or three gems. And that first one is the Buddha treasure. What is the Buddha treasure? What does that mean, Buddha treasure? What I think I'd like to say is that the more you practice, the more you begin to really appreciate your life as your life, the more you begin to appreciate your life, or we could say as the Buddha treasure,

[23:41]

or as the Buddha. And the more difficulties, hardships, losses, you go through, and the more you have that faith or trust in yourself to face whatever it is that comes up, whatever it is that comes up, to be willing to face that, even to invite it, even the most horribly frightening things, feelings, emotions, thoughts. In fact, that's what's meant by having no fear. It's not that we shouldn't have fear. Don't have fear about facing.

[24:43]

Be fearless about facing whatever is coming up. I had tremendous fear coming up here and facing all of you without note. That's why I did it. I had a lot of fear about coming to this and one month took a better position. That's why I did it. So, have that faith or trust to face whatever in your life is the next thing to face, and to go into it completely. Whatever it is. If it's anger, to go into that anger completely. If it's jealousy, to go into it completely.

[25:49]

Last May, I was facing exactly that, jealousy. It seems like such a petty little thing, huh? To be jealous. I mean, we all face jealousy all the time. But somehow, because we don't really let ourselves go into these various emotions a hundred percent, completely, be one with it totally, we actually rob ourselves of the petrol, of the gasoline that we need to completely drop ourselves, to die. Because in every emotion we have that opportunity to completely kill ourselves. But the thing is that usually we're too frightened to go into it completely

[26:54]

because we're afraid of losing that control. We have the opportunity every moment. In fact, we are dying every moment. And we have that opportunity to die every moment. And the only thing that keeps us from doing this is lack of faith. So every moment we have the opportunity to be reborn. But it's interesting, the more we go in to these various things in our life, the more ordinary or normal we feel. That's one reason. I mean, I do feel out of place up here.

[27:56]

I feel more comfortable these days in a gym with normal people. And it's one reason that I've been spending three, four, five hours a day in a gym. It's wonderful. So one way to look at this Buddha treasure is what we call one body. Buddha treasure. That is, it's your life. And everything that happens in your life and everything that comes up in your life is nothing but a treasure. It's all opportunity to expand, to grow, to move beyond your limits and boundaries.

[29:02]

Everything is an opportunity if we take it that way. Or everything can be seen as a hindrance or an obstacle or a barrier if we take it that way. And we could constantly face new situations that are constantly expanding us if we're willing to. It takes that fearlessness, that trust. Then the one who realizes it, the one who awakens, is called the realized Buddha treasure. Shakyamuni Buddha was the first. And anyone who realizes it or awakens, then how do we live that?

[30:15]

How do we live that on a daily basis, moment to moment? And these or those awakened persons are maintained, are the maintained Buddha treasure. Of course, how we live that, that becomes the precept. Simply, the more you become one with it, the more you simply cannot do certain things. Certain things that harm others intentionally. Of course, we all hurt people. We all harm. Even with the best of intentions.

[31:21]

That's one reason I said I was very concerned about giving this talk, because I know in giving this talk I'm hurting people. Or I'm upsetting someone. Then we have what's called Dharma. And again, what is the Dharma? Again, that is your life. Your life is the Dharma treasure. And whatever comes out, whatever you're expressing is the manifestation of that Dharma. And then it's just a matter of how much faith in that do we have. And how deeply do we realize that to be a fact. When we're very unsure

[32:27]

and uncertain, then we need all kinds of control and devices to keep the control on ourselves. And the problem is when we try to control others out of that fear. I feel like I'm talking a long time. I want to talk about Sangha and then I want to open it up for questions. Sangha is actually what I wanted to talk about. It's kind of late. To me, at this point, and it wasn't always true, but at this point, Sangha is the most interesting. That definitely was not true

[33:31]

some years back. And I think when that really hit home for me was just a few months ago. In fact, Rohatsa Satsang. I just went through a very difficult separation. And I was basically blown apart. I fell apart completely. And you would think after so many years of practice I should have been able to handle it better, but I couldn't, or I didn't choose to. And I was sitting there, Rohatsa Satsang, and I was thinking that I gave up a relationship with a woman that I loved very, very, very much. And I thought, for what?

[34:33]

And I looked at Rohatsa Satsang and I said, for this? For Sangha? Try giving up something really precious for something very, very, I don't know what to call it, ambiguous? Sangha. For the word Sangha. And then I started looking around and I saw this person, and this person, and I was thinking, I love this person. I love this person. I don't love that one so much, but I love this person. And Sangha started to come alive for me. Sangha is not just a lot of blank faces. Sangha is precious human beings. Everyone a gem.

[35:34]

Some a little bit, maybe less, maybe a little more, but everyone a gem. Sangha. And I started to appreciate Sangha as individuals. And what came up out of this loss, let's call it, was how precious, maybe the most precious, and definitely, I know I have been very guilty of taking people's love for granted. You ever do that? Take someone's love for granted as if it's owed you or due to you? And I think it's only when we go through

[36:36]

real hardship, real rejection, real loss, that we begin to see that there isn't anything more precious than each individual and their love and their friendship. That's Sangha. Each one of you is a Sangha. And this transmission is about heart to heart. It's two hearts meeting, becoming one, into it. And we always seem

[37:41]

to have an opportunity if we are willing to be aware and take it, to really meet heart to heart. If our heart is open, we can meet heart to heart. But if we're covering it over, concealing, with a mask, with our fears, with our worries, am I being socially correct? Am I looking proper? Am I, you know, got the right veneer? We can't meet. We're frightened. Sure, it's risky business. You might get into trouble. But this is risky business. This is about heart to heart transmission. One of the words that was

[38:45]

most often used by Roshi in all the years I was there was intimate. Intimate. And we can really look at that word in many ways. Be intimate with oneself. Be intimate with Sahih. Be intimate with practice. Be intimate with one another. Now, I'd like to open it up. I promised the students here that I would give a chance for questions. And I wanted to start with that, but I felt that was unfair, too. Thank you. You know, you spoke about contact.

[39:45]

And I wonder if there's anything that you can do to begin to inform and to inform the community about this feeling. If you could say one thing to somebody, like a small, some small thing that you learned or something that sometimes makes you feel... Of being here? Well, like I said in the beginning, for me, one of the things that's most striking is the healing that has gone on over the past two weeks. Literally, there were people in this sangha that I haven't spoken to in two and a half years. And not that we spoke much about our problems together, but through practice, they just seemed to drop away.

[40:49]

And I think that it's been a wonderful healing. And in fact, Roshi spoke about the word for service. Was it service? In its etymological meaning, was it ceremony? Ceremony or service? Ceremony. Means healing. To heal. And through... And I don't consider just the service as service. I mean, it's all service. Whether it's Samlo, or it's Oreoke, or it's sitting, it's all doing service. And through this ceremony, there hasn't been healing, I feel. And also, I mean, lots of things have been coming up. Resistance too. Revolt also. That's why I was a little worried

[41:53]

what might come out of my mouth. But I see that all as, in a way, good and healthy. Nothing wrong with a revolution here and there. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said that. Has the ceremony inspired you? Has the ceremony inspired me? In that you mean like the ritual, the services? Not really. I feel more into it now than I did a few days ago. And I know that, because this is my third time doing Togobetsu Sesshin. It usually takes me about three weeks to get over the resistance. We haven't hit the third week yet. Last time, it wasn't until last week I stopped resisting.

[42:54]

But I was a very bad student in the old days, and I'm still a very bad student. You know, we don't really appreciate our parents, let's say, until we have our own children. And it's true too with our teachers. As I've been getting a lot of let's call it flack, or I don't know what's a good word that others can understand, a lot of grief from my students, I appreciate more and more the grief I've caused my teachers. We tend to only see it from our own position. You know, and like being here and being a student again, I have a lot of sympathy for my students. And when I'm in Salt Lake, I have a lot of sympathy for Moshi. It'd be nice if it was

[44:01]

the other way around, but if I'm here, it's a good thing. We just left. Are there other questions? Did I answer you? Yeah, you know, I want to say this, that what has been really inspiring for me, more than the formal, was meeting the students. That's been really inspiring. You're a freshman. You're a beginner's mind. That has been very inspiring for me. And it's made it so, you know, I'm ready to go back and do machines again. Basically, I've pretty much been pulling back on teaching, but meeting you, I'm more inspired. Yeah, anybody else?

[45:04]

With that, I'm used to it. I'm used to having someone who asks questions a lot. And questions. And the way that that's coming up to me is, the way that that's coming up to me is, how do you um, since I was so young, eight years ago, I was a bachelor. So, I used to get a lot of that training. And also, during the time, teaching and maintaining the ethics and practice. it wasn't so clear how it wasn't so clear how Right, well, but actually I'm very

[46:15]

conservative too. Like, I haven't really changed much. If you come to Utah, Salt Lake Center, it looks pretty much like it does at UCLA. So, I mean that change is inevitable. And it will happen organically, naturally. And, there is a revolutionary in me, but in actual practice, angry sometimes. It worked up, and I say, how important it is that we maintain the tradition, and that we, we have gratitude towards it. And I do, you know, and towards all the teachers who have passed on.

[47:16]

I mean, great gratitude. So I get upset when they want to just, like you say, throw everything out. I won't let them. At the same time, I do feel open to that change. And I feel that a lot of that change is going to happen with each successive generation. Like, my successor, Deno Sensei, some of you know her as Katrina Padres. And she's been around, she's a good friend of Tenshi's. And, she's not going to do it the same way that Roshi has done it, or I do it. And I already know pretty much who her successor is going to be, and she's going to be very different. So that change is going to happen generation on generation. And with some teachers it's going to be quicker than others. I think the key is

[48:17]

the trust, the faith. You know, that when that Dharma is transmitted, that there is a hundred percent confidence that now this person is going to be an expression of that Dharma. And how they're going to do it, we trust them. We put our trust in. Does that make sense to you? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, definitely

[49:19]

to look within, huh? But you know that. Um, you might ask the question just that, where is hope? Where is hope? Anyone else? Anybody else? Well, I'll tell you,

[50:23]

I'll tell you what, what, okay, what I meant. Um, when this jealousy came up, I was in the middle of six weeks of satins in Europe, and I didn't want to miss schedule. So what I did is every night after the schedule was over, around 10 o'clock, I sat all night. And I sat and bowed and sat and bowed, and basically what I was sitting with to begin with was jealousy. And I just, what I did was I did visualizations and built up the jealousy to the worst thing I could possibly imagine, to go into it more completely. And then in going into it, more jealousy and more paranoia came up. And then of course all the various emotions would come up. And to the point where it completely destroyed me. I mean, I just became wiped out, you know, just crying on the floor.

[51:24]

You know, what's the word? Incapable of movement. You know, not catatonic, but close to it. I mean, you know, non-functional. Dysfunctional. And yet what was so amazing was that when it was time to do morning kenton, the Jishi would come in, okay, I'd take a big towel, wipe off my face, and go do kenton. It was time to go do daison, go do daison. It was time to give a talk, give a talk. Time to sit, sit. Time to eat, eat. Then at night, just fall apart again. It went on for six weeks. But each time what you discover is more and more faith that you can go into this and you're going to be alright. You can fall apart and you're going to be alright. You know, you can lose everything. You can be shattered. You know, and you're going to be alright. You can still function

[52:26]

when it's time to function. And that's the beauty of our practice. And when it was time to go do kenton, or make bows, I was so glad that there was a form to go just feed into. And I remember one time I was making the bows, and I thought you know, this is all a trip. It's all a trip. Everything I do is a trip. At least when I bow as closely to how my teacher bows, at least it's not my trip, it's his trip. And his teacher's trip before him, and his teacher's trip before him. At least it's not my own trip. You know, it's still a trip, right? The whole thing's a trip. But at least it's not mine. And that made me appreciate doing it as closely to you know, the way it's done. The way our teacher does it. The way we're taught. . . .

[54:03]

Well, I think what really came clear to me was just appreciating people more. People's love more. And not taking it so for granted. I've been very guilty of that. I think, I've always been a people person, but I really feel that I haven't appreciated enough people's love and kindness and trust. And I still feel guilty about it. I mean, I still don't do it enough. Okay? Now, I'm sure you'd like to finish. If there's no other questions. I'm nearsighted, so I can't see. . . .

[55:55]

. . .

[55:59]

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