And the warmth of that emptiness, the warmth of the nature of the Samantabhadra will manifest. Will is like the sun has a radiant, like the sun has the nature of the sun. It's clarity, illumination, like the nature of that Samantabhadra nature. It's a tremendous joy, explosion of the joy. Like when the first Bhoomi or Bodhisattva stage is the temple, it's an explosion of joy. Reaching the ultimate stage of Samantabhadra, there's infinite kind of happiness in their mind. Because one gets free from the entire hope and fear. At the same time, the warmth of the clarity manifests. So it's like tremendous clarity and presence is there. And every aspect of that display, the expression, becomes like a great offering, a food towards that presence. Whether one has a very negative thought or whether one has a very positive thought, they are equal at this stage. And one can be realistic equally because they are both liberated.

[01:05]

Equals mean they are both liberated. And one is in the state of liberation. One is not in the state of being solidified. One is not in the state of being confused at this stage. And that may happen when, you know, through an effort practice. Without an effort, one cannot attain such a state. And one of the importance, why when we begin the teaching, it says that it is hard at the beginning to gain some realization in a very distracted place. Because the mind does not have much strength. That is the reason. Mind does not have much strength to face that. You may find yourself instantly, you know, being carried away. Instantly a thought, instantly a fear, instantly a hope will come. And there immediately create a substantial kind of experience right there. So one is already lost. One does not see the presence of the emptiness.

[02:10]

One does not see the presence of the liberated state at this stage. So already, immediately one finds oneself caught up. And once it is caught up, then the moment that solidified experience manifests into our mind, then immediately we start to see ourselves externally. And then that will lead to the next connection and next attachment and next attachment. And then it keeps on going and going. So it becomes endless and so on. So therefore, how important to have that clear fundamental presence is so important. Fundamental presence is so important. When a person loses that fundamental presence, then one may find after some time so far away that it's almost like at this stage there will be a person... When you keep on doing meditation, you will find this stage after some time that how, you know, how it begins so subtly.

[03:14]

How subtly this hope and fear manifest. That is the point which one is to overcome. One is to cut that subtle aspect of hope and fear. And once the subtle already starts forming on, one may not see at an early stage how that subtle is manifesting. One may only see the gross part. But then, you know, one may find oneself after some time how this subtle aspect of that hope and fear taking us so instantly and immediately creating an existence of the inner. So that is how it's very... it's almost like those who have never done Dharma practice never heard that. It's almost like one may not even recognize that. One may not even see that it's happening from such a sensitive... It's so... it's like so fragile, you know. It's like so sensitive it's happening.

[04:16]

It's almost like one sees oneself in external consciousness. So if we use the word consciousness, the very gross thought is called external consciousness. The mind, gross mind is mind. Consciousness is the same word. There is no difference. Because there is mind or consciousness means which can think, which can perceive. That is called consciousness or mind. So there is no reason to get confused that consciousness is one thing and mind is the other thing and soul is the other thing. We may have a... we may say that our spirit means something more like heart and mind means something somewhere else. Those are just labeled actually. It's just a projection of their own mind. But basically consciousness or mind or whatever we may call it is one thing. And then in that aspect the gross consciousness, the gross thought and there's a subtle thought and then the very clear presence. So to be able to experience that clear presence, that is what the ultimate attainment of our reality.

[05:19]

That's called the spiritual path. Now if there is something called spiritual path, it is labeled as spiritual path. Actually there is no such thing as a spiritual path or secular path. Because in a relative definition secular path means something like ordinary style and spiritual path means the true nature of their mind. So that is what usually in the general, in this world, we are fortunate enough that there are teachings on that point. There is a spiritual life and a secular life. But in point, when you reach the essence of this mantra about the Buddha, nature, that is your very nature. That is your very simple and direct and fundamental state. So this mantra about the Buddha never says that I'm so special and I'm so great. And does not, you know, it does not have any grasping that, oh, I've reached that high absorption state. So I'm great and other person does not have. If there is such a substantial, then that is again a hope and a fear still manifesting.

[06:25]

They do not have no pride. It's absolutely even more simpler than anybody in that aspect. Their mind is like a stain in the sky. But who become more pride and more miraculous kind of strange is the dualistic mind. It's not the non-dual presence. The dualistic mind started to manifest, create that whole different existence and started to see many things. While the non-dual semantic Buddha nature is so clear and simple and straight there. Like the sun. The sun is very simple. Quietly it shines in the morning and then it does not see I'm coming, you know. And then there is it. Very simple. We can all see the effect of that. So that's like that. It does not have any pride attaining that experience of Samantabhadra. So on reaching such a state we have to develop on the path very carefully.

[07:25]

And I would like all of you to be a good Dharma practitioner. And then it will be very beneficial. You will find a happiness in the depth of your heart. And then there is beneficial for all of us together here together. And me giving a teaching and you hearing a teaching there is a benefit. And then there is certainly one will find some enlightenment in time. But if you do not follow the steps, do not understand our mind carefully, then one will always be in the state of confusion. And then this thing does not help. So one has to be really a true Dzogchen practitioner. One has to be insightly practicing Dzogchen, outwardly practicing it, outwardly being more like a skillful being. At the same time, the skillful being is not, you know, the Dzogchen practitioner is very open, who has the greatest skill at the same time. Because Dzogchen experiencing true nature of their mind,

[08:27]

the skill, the warmth of that compassion is even much deeper than any stage has. Because it's the ultimate Samantabhadra nature. One can manifest in any way, in any form, and it will be absolutely for the benefit of being, because one is completely liberated oneself from that grasping state. So there is no confusion. It's like a clear sky of mind. So, at the same time, the warmth of that quality is like the sunshine, and it's like the compassion. That is the six parameters of Bodhisattva Yama. And all different aspects which will manifest in infinite different styles, in infinite different fashions, in all aspects of life, so that it will communicate and transcend the hope and fear of the other being. But to reach such a state for oneself and for others, it is not complicated, you know. All we need to do is every day, you know, sometimes observe the mind, how it is happening in our life, and sometimes bring the practice into effect.

[09:31]

And sometimes, you know, maybe it's very important in the early morning, you know, first you do your practice, what you have to do, and then you do your meditation, integrate your meditation. And also sometimes you may find yourself not being able to be in the presence all the time, which is a little bit hard. And if you find yourself being ruled out by the influence and ruled by circumstances of duality, then perhaps do not try to create a very negative karma. So in that way, I'm not saying that any one of you are doing any negative karma. I think everyone is wonderful. But sometimes the duality is so tricky, you may not know what to do. So just from that point, one has to be, you know, little bit, develop more compassion inside, develop more strength inside. And that will heal itself, and that is very important. So then integrating in that presence.

[10:33]

And then one may understand something more deeper, and as I said, the state of the expression of the Dzogchen is far more superior than the Sutrayana, because it's the Vajrayana, the top of the nine-jnana stage. And then one finds that expression in infinite qualities, where there is even the great teachers in the past, the 84 great mahasiddhas, the way they have taught in infinite styles. Because all those, the wisdom is so great, so vast, that it is not a black and white teaching. It does not just have one style and one way. It can manifest in all different styles. As I said, there is even a precept for the liars also. There was a time during the 84 mahasiddhas, there was this mahasiddha called Thaganapa.

[11:35]

And before he became enlightened, he was a liar. And that's his livelihood. He makes his living by cheating people, by deceiving people all the time. And then one day he was sitting on a log, and now he's looking who he can cheat and who he can deceive. And then there was a monk passing by. This was a very great monk. I think it was a great Vajrayana monk. It was a very great monk. And as the monk was passing by, the monk asked him, what are you doing? He was sitting there on a log trying to cheat somebody. And now since he saw a monk, of course it was difficult for him too. So he said, please don't ask what I am doing. And the monk immediately knew that he was telling a lie. So the monk said, don't tell lies. If you tell lies, it will create a negative influence and energy, karma to you,

[12:37]

and that you will experience some suffering experience later in your life. And besides, or whatever you see in the future, telling the lie, one loses the speech power. One loses the speech power, and it will not be affected. And it will not be... Losing the speech power, it will not be affected. Then it will, from the point of enlightenment, it makes the speech chakra completely confused, and it makes it not very clear. So do not do that. And he didn't know that the karma also applies to telling lies. And he said, oh, no wonder how people see me. And he really got very shocked, and he got very surprised that there is telling lies, something not good. And then he said, what should I do now? I tell lies without exception, and what should I do now? And the monk said, well, can you do a sadhana, a practice? And he said, well, I will try, but I'm not sure,

[13:40]

because I've been used to telling lies all the time, so I may still tell lies. And the monk said, well, do you know there is even a process for the liars? And he said, oh, I don't know, please teach me. And at that stage, the monk looked at his state of mind. This is how the Vajrayana teachings are taught, the deepest state of the mind, his consciousness level, everything. And the monk gave him the teaching right there, saying, inject the water into the ear to get the water out of the ear. If you have to get the water out of the ear, you have to inject a little bit more water, then the water will come out. He said, see the phenomena as a lie, there you will see the truth. Because he was always seeing everything as a lie, so the monk gave him the instruction, inject the water into the ear to get the water out of the ear. See the phenomena as a lie, there you will see the truth. So then for him, that was easy, because he was lying all the time, so he saw everything as a lie.

[14:41]

And that was true, because there is no reality in the experience of the expression. All the lie is the experience of the expression. So getting caught to the experience, as I said, the presence of the mind, most of the time we find ourselves living in the experience than living in the presence. We find ourselves getting caught, getting seduced by this experience, seduced by experience. For a person, a spiritual person, sometimes we get seduced by the blissful experience, or the clarity experience, or some kind of emptiness experience. And for a person who does not do the same thing, one gets seduced to all different kinds of experience, which manifests, which gives birth all the time, which is basically the expression of their mind, not knowing that expression as simply the expression. One gets seduced to that experience, and that is where the world duality and hope are placed within that experience

[15:42]

of the manifestation of the presence. So therefore, he said, every experience, there is no reality in the experience. So see the world phenomena as a lie, and there you will see the truth. So he meditated for seven years on that practice, seeing the world phenomena. There is no reality in phenomena. Everything is just all facade experience. Like what is the reality in dream? Everything is a lie. There is no such thing as reality in dream. It's the same thing. There is no realistic matter. So he meditated for seven years, seeing the entire phenomena as a lie. And after seven years, then he found a great realization, and then that wasn't enough. And he met his teacher, and he said, did I get enlightened? And his teacher said, no, you still have to do some more. And finally, he became one of the greatest masters, called the Pada Napa. So there is something for everybody. And so, the teachings are not black and white, you know. This is the way, and you have to do like this all the time.

[16:45]

What one has to understand, teaching the Dzogchen mind is the most colorful state, which shows its presence so clearly, that one transcends the entire black and white state. One transcends the entire characterization of the duality at that stage. So it's like the ultimate, you know, from that point. Because the strength, the way it transcends, it cannot be compared at all with the lower teaching, because that presence which has been introduced is so strong, so, it's like the sun itself, that there is no comparison to any other state. So therefore, and if we are not able to maintain that stage, then it would not be any effective. Just simply saying that, oh, my Lama says the nature of the mind is empty, and I think it is empty. And then, if we just started to have an understanding and not really practicing, it would not be effective to transcending that karma,

[17:46]

transcending that experience. You know, transcending the experience is like getting caught to the expression of the presence. One cannot transcend that expression. One will be caught to that expression as an experience. So even if one is able to remain in the quiescent state, simply experiencing a quiescent state, it does not liberate the mind from duality. It is another aspect. It is better than experiencing a tremendous kind of difficulty, but it's still the same. The quiescence cannot liberate the mind from the samsara. It can even get too much attached to the experience of quiescence. After some time, it is the very source of the seed to be born into the desire realm. And if one gets attached to the experience of the clarity, then that will be the very cause to be born into the form realm. And if one gets caught to the experience of emptiness,

[18:52]

then that will be the very cause to be born into the formless realm. And if one gets caught to the experience of anger, that takes one to the experience of this hell realm. And if one gets caught to the experience of ignorance, that gives the birth to this animal realm. So that is how, when fine ones are constantly being influenced and being seduced by the experience, the experience is almost like surrounding all the time, but the experience cannot seduce us. If we are in the presence, what happens? The experience becomes liberated. And that is where really the point lies. The expression becomes liberated. The expression at this stage is not liberated. That is what solidifies the expression. And for that, a person has to deal a great experience into the practice, and then one can really transcend the five passions. Transcend the five passions.

[19:54]

And then, naturally, you will see the presence of the five essences at this stage. And if one is not able to have the totality realistic experience of the emptiness, then it would not simply work just by thinking of emptiness. So it is different. Understanding and realization are different. First, understanding is important. Without understanding, then the experience is not as important. For that reason, they do three years retreat going into a cave. You must do six years retreat, nine years retreat. And so it gives the better opportunity. Or if you are living in a city, in our case it is how one should do, because I know we have to be in a city and we have to be in a town. One should have a setup of time every day. Early morning do what practice for one hour, two hours, whatever. And do that every day. Do not make a breakage in that timing. However, during that time, no telephone calls, nothing.

[20:59]

It is absolutely your time. And make it like a timing so that it will never be changed by anything. And don't do too many. Just do a little. Don't do a little bit from here, a little bit from there. If you do too many, then after some time you will get so distracted you may find yourself busy into all these things. In essence, they are all one. So there is no need to do too many. But whatever you do, do that very well and do it very purely. And make a setup time. In that way, the continuity brings more greater fruit than a quantity at the same time. If one tries to do in a quantity level, if one says, oh, today I am going to do my meditation. Spend 15 hours. And then, as I said, the mistake of meditation is like either too hard concentrating or too loose. Today you become so serious, too hard. And after that, there is nothing for the next 20 days. And then after the next 20 days, oh, I have got to do my meditation.

[22:03]

And then again you do it hard. And in that way you find yourself absolutely the same as the ordinary state of the mind as before. It does not find any realisation. That should not be. Continuity in the practice is so important. Continuity is important in every aspect of life. We can see that when we go to study in school, we have to spend many years. And then we pass the graduate and finally we reach the university. We didn't reach the university. We just went to class two days. And then suddenly we find ourselves, you know, one day in the university. It doesn't work like that. There is a continuity. And whoever can build that continuity, wins, you know, succeeds. Because at this stage there is a level of karmas. And all these karmas manifest. And one keeps on liberating those karmas. One keeps on finding oneself. Because after some time the present becomes so clear

[23:04]

that none of those karmas can affect. Then one is able to see the total clarity like this. The entire cloud is removed from the sun. And then the sun shines like that. Then the five wisdom reaches, manifesting to ourselves. And that is how my teacher used to say, a very intelligent mind, he used to say, a very intelligent mind and a diligent mind, the diligent mind will win, he said. The intelligent mind will just pick up very quickly, but then it will just leave after a few days. But diligent mind will keep on pursuing the continuity. Will not do much, but, you know, keep on doing. And then eventually it will be greater. It's exactly, we have the story of the race of the turtles and the turtle and the hare. The slow and steady win the race. So even in meditation it has to be like that, a continuity every day.

[24:06]

You should not push yourself too much. If you push yourself too much, it will create, it will create like an unbalance in the element. Then if you meditate too hard, it will bring the whole element up. So you don't find the clarity at all. And if you become too loose, then one is completely being carried away into the experience of that, again caught into experience which becomes confusion, source of the thought of existence. So therefore one make a balance, one understand, you know, better relax. And sometimes also while doing our practice, it brings, it cleans everything so quickly. It's like when we clean a sewage system, of course when you go to clean a sewage system, it's going to smell at the beginning, right? It's not going to be very beautiful perfume coming out of the sewage system. So first it's going to smell, but after smelling it, then they will be clean, you know, like that.

[25:07]

So sometime when you're in your presence, there will be kind of experience of resistance also, you know, because it's like a, it's the biggest threat to the hope and fear. The presence, the realization mind is the biggest threat to confusion. One has to understand that. The biggest threat to confusion is the realization. And that hope and fear, it's like the suiciding, it's like a suicidal for the hope and fear when a person does this practice, you know, particularly bringing the presence of the Torch Nation. So then it will start to clear all kinds of gimmicks, all kinds of manifestation experience. Oh, now do this, now don't do that, you know. And if you get lost, you are again carried away, deep into samsara, deep, [...] almost like a black cloud inside. You don't even see where you are. You know, one can almost find oneself in the middle of some sausage and be eaten by everybody. You never know who is eating and who is not eating, you know.

[26:12]

Like that. So there are so many things like that. And one has to have a great presence into that. And there will be many things like that coming up. So there is the experience of resistance and there to call in practice. It's like brings out all of them. And one has to, when those experiences are brought, if one gets seduced and gets distracted and grasps those experiences, then they will ruin, and then again you lose yourself, you lose your presence. Then you never see the liberation point of this experience. So one has to be very strong, one has to be tremendous devotion. Devotion is one of the strongest sins in liberating all this confusion. One has to mingle the Lama mind and then bring to the protectors, to the enlightened mind, into the sky visualizing that may this obstacle go away. Because the energy has been the enlightened energy, so one receives that energy and is able to overcome this obstacle.

[27:17]

And then, you know, it's called, there are three kinds of obstacles. Chi, Phong, Nang, Sang. External sometimes, external, Phong is almost like vaporizing. External vaporizing, internal vaporizing, and secret vaporizing. When the external vaporizing comes sometimes due to one's own many karmas, now the karma started to go away, then we get physical sickness sometimes. And when we have a physical sickness, basically when we go through the karma, we should be very, if it's a person who can really see it clearly, we should rejoice at this state in a way. Because I'm really getting rid of my karma, which I have done it. However that karma is. And one should never have any aversion toward this state. There is no need to create some kind of resentment, some kind of anger for what we are going through. One should see, well, this is my karma. And of course, every experience in life is like a dream.

[28:20]

There is no reason to make it like substantial, permanent, nothing. It's one of the expression, getting caught to expression. It has manifested such as lifestyle in this life. So when that has happened, I'm getting rid of my karma. May all the sentient beings, they get rid of their karma. May they never experience like this. May I be able to take that. A bodhisattva will even take the suffering of others at this stage. And then, you know, and that's become the strongest healing, which brings this tremendous birth of freedom from this karma. So, because of many karmas in our lifetime, all kinds of things, who will be, you know, who is at the reception, you know, there is presence, and at the reception there is the presence and hope and fear. Now, at this usual ordinary state, hope and fear, you know, tell us to do this and do that. Now, the presence is not giving the state of liberation. So it's almost like at the reception, when you come in contact with all the karmas, hope and fear waiting there on two chairs. Then you go there, and then you go there.

[29:21]

So the presence is, you know, almost obscured, because of the reception is done by the hope and fear. So the presence is completely obscured, you know. So, therefore, all karma will create more and more this, you know, it gives connection to more and more deeper. So that, you know, particularly in receiving, you know, practicing dharma, and particularly the absorption practice, which brings the presence into reality, brings the presence into effect. At this stage, the hope and fear will also, you know, it's like, as I said, the biggest threat. And so, therefore, all different kinds of karmas manifest. It also brings the resistance, in which sometimes we see, you know, oh, now I just can't do it. And sometimes one feels fear inside, or sometimes one feels like certain kind of things. And all those are, you know, the internal fears and intense seeing, you know, seeing doubts towards the lama,

[30:22]

seeing doubts towards the teaching. Those kind of things will happen also sometimes. You know, seeing, having doubts towards lama, having doubts towards teaching. You know, and so, and when those kind of things happen, it's the crucial point. That is like the boundary, whether you step outside, or whether you go back to the same old style. That kind of secret obstacle, it's called the secret obstacle, and that is the most crucial point. When that kind of experience arises, one has to be very strong. No matter what happens, I'm never going to give up. Because, actually, what happens, the experience becomes so strong, the experience becomes so strong at that stage, that one loses almost the ground of presence. Of course, the presence is always there, but you have been introduced to a presence, okay? So you know the presence, you are doing it, and you trust your presence. At the same time, the experience becomes so strong that you just think, oh, now what should I do? And then you have been clinging to that experience.

[31:25]

You are entertaining that experience. It's very hard for you to really see that into the nature of emptiness, because one is used habitually in getting attached and getting caught and solidified to the experience. And when it's coming to the ultimate verge for you to get enlightened, the resistance will be stronger also at the same time. Sometimes it will depend. It depends on the person's connection with the teacher. If it's a very pure samaya, it will be very easy. Sometimes it also depends on karma. If one has certain strong karma, sometimes it appears to be strong, but that is the time, no matter what, dissolving the lama's heart. And then, being in the presence, then it can go away completely. And when that vanishes, that person finds great confidence. Now there is the presence. How is my buddha nature? And then none of those can affect.

[32:26]

So it's very tricky. It's called chill, calm. Sometimes you see strange beings also. You start to see spirit and getting scared. These are all expressions of the mind displaying in those stages. Or sometimes you start feeling bad, or things like that. Many things can happen. And also on the path, even to get caught and completely rest in the state of quiescence is also not recommended. But it's good for the time being. Those who have never experienced that state, it may be good. You should experience a quiescent mind. But the Dzogchen practitioner cannot get sleep. They cannot get seduced by that thing. If you get seduced, you are again not being able to cut your fundamental power deep inside yourself. Then you see your external vision as something far more superior than yourself. And therefore you do not see the presence of the buddha nature light inside.

[33:27]

So therefore it requires tremendous practice. So therefore I'm telling you, develop your devotion, develop your compassion, develop your love. All the time transcend. Be in the presence. And simply being in the presence, it includes everything that is absolutely perfect. That's called the great perfection stage. But until there, there will be a lot of tests. And one has to be strong on the path. And to have your presence is extremely important. And then after some time, whatever the arising state of the mind, it will liberate itself. Like at the beginning, it's like the meeting of the two persons. Like meeting with the mother and the son. Or like meeting with the two persons who know each other. And in the middle, it will be like the releasing of the twist of the snake by itself. Finally it is like the thought itself liberates. Like if a thief enters an empty house, if a thief enters an empty house, there is nothing to steal. And then, you know, one finds.

[34:28]

And then at that stage you will see, you see your lama into the buddha, because you see yourself into the state. So the old duality at that stage is dissolved. And then one really sees what is the buddha nature. This is what, oh wow, this is what it is. Then you will have a confidence. And then the strength of that qualities are infinite. As I said, the first stage of bodhisattva, it's a naturally, spontaneously, it can manifest in 1200 different forms. And those are inconceivable qualities. But one finds into absolutely clear, and clear cannot be ruled by any circumstances furthermore. And that kind of stage one has to be developing tremendous compassion and true practice. So, you know, as we all know that, I don't think so people would have time to do like nine years retreat or whatever, but it doesn't mean that we won't reach that stage. We will reach that stage. What we have to do is you make a time every day.

[35:30]

Do at least one hour. You should at least, you have to practice. You know, it's so important that one hour is nothing. You have to, out of 24 hours, one hour, of course you have to heal yourself. If you do not spend an hour, how can you reach such a stage? So, one hour at least you make a time every day. At that time you wake up, make yourself disciplined at the beginning, and then gradually it will start to develop. Gradually you will find it easier and easier. And then, you know, in the meantime, integrate that and you don't have to push yourself into doing too many things. Just keep on doing and doing. And then over the times, after five months, six months, when you look back, you find yourself much clearer, much stronger, that now the external phenomenon does not rule you anymore. You have a clear presence. And they all become like the same taste. You can dance with the beautiful circumstances in nature and you can dance with the negative circumstances in nature. Both are equal, both are liberating.

[36:32]

It's like the painting of the body on the water. When you paint the head, you know, and when you come to the body, that disappears and liberates. So, same thing, none of those substantial, all-faceted experiences is able to rule your life. And then once you can feel the dream experience, what one is going through. So, that is how, you know, to experience such a transcendent realization from our five passions and from all this fear, one needs tremendous practice integrating into life and to practice a little bit more tolerance. His Holiness Penny Ren, which he was telling me last time as I was there, he said when he was building his monastery and when he was raising up the thing, it was difficult. But the more difficult it was, the more the tolerance was there, the more deeper the realization took place. And that is something we need to, you know, we need to deepen our tolerance. We need to deepen our patience also.

[37:33]

Those are very important. And that's how we can bring a harmony and peace to ourselves and to others. Though there may be the wrong trickiness will be that they will be resistant. We don't want to be patient. We want to fight. We want to kill our enemy, you know. And that does not end up the solution. We see that that kind of seed brings more suffering. We can see the war between Iran and Iraq. There's more suffering. There's more hate than ever before. And it's like never it's going to end up. So only it can end up by seeing one's true nature. Then we can find the enlightenment. We can find realization. We can benefit and help other beings. So something we need to develop on many different levels, you know. And that is very, very important. And then if, you know, hearing such a great teaching on Dzogchen and then not being able to integrate the presence,

[38:34]

then after some time you take the teaching as an understanding in your mind. Then, you know, understanding is like a mist. Understanding is like a patch. You see a mist, you know, it appears to be there and after a few hours it will be gone. There is no more mist. So understanding is like that. You think, oh, it is empty, you know, and sometimes you experience a certain state of it and then you don't do it at all. You completely leave it. In that way, it is called that once, if you spoil the mind, you know, if the presence is lost, you recognize the presence and if you do not integrate that and again completely surrender yourself under the influence of the habit of duality, then one may never wake up. Awakening state will never happen. Then it is called the presence is stolen by experience, you know, almost. I would say the presence is stolen by experience at that stage. One may never come to a stage how one can be free from all the experience

[39:37]

of the duality. So to free oneself from the experience of duality, one has to maintain the presence. At the beginning, one needs the mindfulness also. One needs the presence, awareness there because at the beginning, Dzogchen stage is like meeting of the true person. So there is, that's the point why it says meeting of the true person. Later the experience itself is like the releasing of the nut of the snake which does not need help of anybody. The snake doesn't need help of anybody to open its nut. It can open itself. The thought will arise and it will liberate itself. That is the experience in the middle. And thirdly, the experience is none of them can affect anything. However, in the empty room, the thief cries or the thief smiles or whatever happens, but the empty room is unaffected. So like that. So that is how there has been different stages explained. First is the meeting, knowing of each other.

[40:38]

And in the middle is the snake releasing. And the third is like the empty room. And that is how. Then one reaches the state of Samantabhadra. And like that, complete, free from all this experience. The layers of experience at this stage are being influenced and supported by our habits. So then, you know, when peeling off that, peeling off that, inside that clarity, that is called Dzogchen. The experience is not called Dzogchen. Some people think they just experience a quiescence and that is Dzogchen nature. That is simply, as I said, if you get attached to that, then you will be born into a Dzogchen. That is the discourse of Dzogchen. And that would not affect to liberate any passion. That would not, that does not have a strain on it. It will just create you some kind of, you know, quiet and maybe a nice feeling. And it does not liberate our ego. It does not liberate the duality. So this

[41:39]

you know, this teaching, the three words, three essential words is given to, which has been expounded by Padam Rinpoche, is the teaching of the Garbha Dzogchen, which Garbha Dzogchen, the ultimate teaching, given from the space, you know, Garbha Dzogchen manifests from the space and given to Jambal Sringer, this three-word teaching. And it is something very, you know, if one can do the practice, one finds realization within this lifetime and, you know, and, as I said, one finds realization within this lifetime or within the three lifetimes one finds realization. And even in this life, one's got tremendous freeness from all of our karmas and that's a tremendous blessing. And it's the ultimate jnana of the teaching. And one has to, this kind of teaching should not be taught to people from outside who never have understanding. It should be only, this teaching should be only keep for yourself. You should not talk this to other people outside. Only those who have experience, those who did something, one could, one could

[42:42]

sometimes, you know, relate it. But it should be only your practice so that your practice becomes clear. And the tips you have taken, it should not be listened by people who have never received this teaching. It should be something kept for yourself because those who have not received it, if they cannot understand because the teaching has to be directly given transmission, mind to mind transmission and it can be understood. Otherwise it cannot be understood. Simply hearing the teaching is almost like different. So therefore, keep this teaching as a secret and do it for your own practice. But the other teaching like, you know, you can explain you can explain from the experience of this teaching. There's the experience teaching and there's the presence teaching. The presence teaching is called the ultimate teaching. The experience teaching is called the relative teaching. Within the experience, it teaches how the experience of the life begins. Cause and effect are all experience teaching. You know, while the presence teaching

[43:43]

transcends all cause and effect. So Dzogchen is transcendence of cause and effect because it's come to the ultimate stage of the Semantabha religion. So most people are living in the experience realm. So you have to relate from the experience realm. So you have to understand that. That's important. Now let's go to... Would you explain again what we should talk about and what is OK? I don't quite understand. Now meditation, basically, keep it for yourself. Cause and effect, you know, helping others. Which I will explain more and more. You will be still happy. Like Samantabha meditation, those you can explain. So OK, now I think today we can go next to the ocean Right now maybe it's a good time to go next to the ocean and let's do a session there. Today I will explain

[44:44]

a little bit about the how the five later on how the five passions are transmitted into the five wisdom. But basically that is something to be practiced and to be experienced than to be understood. Understanding is important in a way. But the five wisdom needs to be experienced than just simply being told that it will be like that. And to be experienced one has to understand the view so precisely. And then the like the nature of the fire is a warmth and the nature of the emptiness is a wisdom. The warmth of the five wisdom nature. But to

[45:45]

express and experience that wisdom one has to have the perfect understanding the perfect experience, the perfect realization of the view. If one does not understood the view correctly the presence clearly than perhaps one may not then one may never experience that the qualities of the wisdom. So so and for that there are many levels, many stages of meditation as you might all know. The meditation which we go through in Hinayana, the meditation which we go through in Mahayana and the meditation which we go through in Vajrayana. And Vajrayana it's all there, various levels of meditation. Meditation done with forms and meditation done

[46:48]

without forms. And meditation done by concentrating on certain windows, certain letters. As I explained this morning in introducing the state of their mind the way it function there is these two levels. As I would say the teaching of experience and the teaching of presence. Now teaching of experience will relate the entire teaching from the Hinayana level to Mahayana level. A great extent of teaching is taught within the context of the teaching the teaching of experience. And now teaching of presence is limitedly shown within the Hinayana teaching.

[47:48]

It's not shown completely but there is a limited presence presence nature which is introduced and out of that a person attains the stage of Arahothood. The total transcendence of the gross element. But the subtle transcendence is still still to be worked on on the path. So when the Hinayana Arahoth attained the state of realization remained in a pure land for millions of years in a Buddha field. Sometimes they give the bird in the flower and within the flower the flower they meditate next to a Buddha for about tens of thousands

[48:50]

of years remaining in that Samadhi, remaining in that state. And after some time then the light of all the Buddhas radiates and then wakes the Arahath from that state of from that state of meditation. And then predicts give them a message, predicts that Arahath that one has to still attain the state of, one still has to become free still has to liberate the subtle substantial obscurations within their mind. So therefore one has to begin the path from the Mahayana. So then a person, Arahath again begins from the very first starting on the Mahayana path by the practice of compassion. The practice

[49:52]

of Bodhisattva Yana. Now the practice of Bodhisattva Yana it begins by surrendering. The way we liberate our subtle substantial concepts is by surrendering them. It's by unfolding them, it's not by collecting them. So Bodhisattva takes the vow that until the samsara becomes end, I work for the benefit of all beings. Which means one has to surrender. One just cannot keep one private territory anymore ever since taking the Bodhisattva vow. One has broken the fence and then one has welcomed everybody. Which means the Bodhisattva is like the public space. Now the private space is

[50:55]

no more there. So therefore the Bodhisattva keeps on unfolding. So therefore, the moment you surrender, the entire subtle grasping of the insubstantial experience starts to liberate the state. And that you might understand what is really that, how does that really liberate when you have the experience, when you really experience the Dzogchen mind. The present state. You come to understand that the meditation produced through mental analysis, the meditation make effort or fabricated is the very source of the territory. Which gives the experience of setback, which gives the experience of unbalance. There is no lightness.

[51:57]

There is no freeness. There is something yet there, something which is causing you. It's almost like you are squeezed in between two things and you feel that, you know there is, if you move your arms around on the right hand, you feel something is there, and if you move your arm on the left hand, you feel something is there. There is yet substantial emotion, yet there is substantial phenomena, experiences because one is still not been able to liberate those experiences. So therefore, the bodhisattva path is the way, how one start by the practice of six paramita, how one generate this, so one keeps on unfolding from that step on towards, goes deeper and deeper into that. One come to, one has one does it by all different methods. One does it the relative bodhicitta mind and one does it with the absolute bodhicitta mind.

[52:58]

The relative bodhicitta mind one, in order to develop to have a great experience of the stage of the absolute bodhicitta mind, one develop by the relative bodhicitta mind. And on relative bodhicitta mind and the absolute, uniting, integrating those two, one come to understand the present state of the right path. But those are all done, not with some kind of collection. And it's a stage that the person is not on the stage of the great perfection at the stage, one who is just entering the great path. One is beginning to unfold and there seems to be an effort. There seems to be an effort that you are unfolding it. There is an effort that you are liberating it. And even for the beginner sokshin practitioner, there is an effort

[54:01]

that you are liberating it. There is the effort that you are recognizing like the mother and the child recognize each other. Or the friend recognize each other. There is the first effort. There is the first step. And after some time, the experience, the development, the realization of the state is far more deeper where it is like the liberation of the twist of the snake. The snake does not need the help of anybody to open a twist. It makes its twist and the twist is released by itself. So that is very important why those three yanas are shown and how one reaches that state by unfolding. And it's almost when you really come to have a glimpse of experience of your

[55:02]

rigpa, you find yourself so clear. But at the same time, again we get caught into the experience of the karmic realm, into this existence, because instantly we grasp all of them. So it's become like almost like one is totally, absolutely sucked into that energy, and the energy around is so strong that you don't see your presence, you just find yourself in some sort of energy. And that is the realm, the state of the samsaric realm what one is going through. So it's almost like one is struggling and struggling to break that and not knowing that the innate nature is open and is empty and is free by nature. We started to build that energy into some kind of solidifying state, freezes then.

[56:03]

So the presence is never experienced. It's become very hard. So even when a person as I explained this morning, the Dzogchen teaching is the peak of the entire jhanas, the nine jhanas. And it is all supported by those nine jhanas. The nine jhanas is naturally included within the Dzogchen teaching. But at the same time, the presence of the Dzogchen mind, the great perfection mind, is so when you come to the deepest state, is so light that there is no such pride or there is no such effort to be made as meditation also. Because if one tries to make a meditation, it's become fabricated at this stage.

[57:04]

And that is to say that, you know, one really go through the true experience of that great perfection is not something one is saying that the nature of their mind is empty and my Lama says it's empty and it must be empty so when you face one of those some kind of struggle, some kind of experience, some kind of passion, then you say, oh it must be empty. So, well, I've done meditation so it will be taken care of by the empty. It doesn't liberate the state because it's just as it's always said, it's a mere lip service towards the empty. It's not a real real transcendence of that character of that thought. So, one has to really very important, one of the most important instruction

[58:09]

within the state is, you know, at this stage perhaps when you hear this word called relax, one doesn't know that also completely. Because when you hear the word called relax there is not much word, first of all, one has to understand, you see. The words eliminate. And when the word called relax, we try to think okay, now this is how we relax. And now, now you be very free and open. Okay, I try to be free. It's coming up. Let it go. And then there is a, you know, and the presence, presence does not mean a solidified state. Presence is like the nature of any thought is the presence. That is the wisdom. That is the, by nature it's empty, by nature it's liberated.

[59:10]

And one tends to have a sense okay, here is my presence now. Very uptight. And let me see who is coming from any other side. Oh, there is some kind of anger coming on. Okay, I should not. So you, inside there is an effort, you see. There is an effort that when it's not, it's not open. So therefore, and this very effort, that fabrication builds the tension. So then again it is like, you know, it's become, it's become, but that is what, that is how one will experience, you know. One would not experience the presence straight away, but that is how it will come. And you have to understand when the relaxed means it's absolutely like, how does the stainless sky relax? Tell me that. How open it is. It's something, it trusts itself.

[60:13]

The relaxed trusts itself. Does our relaxed trust itself? So it's not, you know, one has to understand what the relaxed means. And it's something, a deep experience within oneself, which can absolutely trust itself, like the ocean trusts itself. The sky trusts itself. The ocean can have many different kinds of waves, no matter how those waves happen, ocean knows those waves as expression. That is, ocean is absolutely calm and clear. It's absolutely have not single fear of those waves. Same thing, however once a person reaches that state of the presence, no matter how the mind manifests, whether into any kinds of expression, the mind is naturally liberated at that state. There is the absolute, the Buddha state

[61:13]

of nature. The nature of the Buddha state is absolutely open and relaxed. If there is a word called relaxed, there is a tremendous openness and clarity, you know, just itself clear, no obscuration, no fear, no such effort at that stage. So, that is something how the example of the glass is used, so important. It's a very important, that example of the glass is a very, very deep instruction. In a glass of water, there is a sand. If you shake the sand, then it will be very murky, the water would not be clear. And if you do not shake the glass, then the sand will go down and the water will be clear. And that is a very deep, deep message and a deep experience to be, you know, to be able to reach. But, many times, we will take the teaching, many times, when we

[62:14]

contact with the teaching, according to the way the perception of the habit can connect. So, if the person has a very gross habit, one will connect the teaching from that gross level, from that external consciousness, what I used to say, the external consciousness. And if one has a very light thing, then one understands much lighter, clear. And if one has extremely like very light, then it becomes instant realization, like the King Indra Bodhi. But I show him, King Indra Bodhi was the very first, very first being who introduced the, who invoked the Buddha to teach, to turn the wheel of the Vajrayana teaching. And he was a very, very great king. And one day he saw all the Buddhas

[63:16]

and his disciples in the sky flying over. And so he asked his minister, what are those yellow birds? Because they were having yellow robes in these days. He said, what are those yellow birds? And the minister told him, that is not yellow birds, that is Buddha and his disciples. And then he thought, that's very interesting, I would like to meet him. And then he asked, how should I invite him? And at that time, in the, during Buddha's time, those who attained the state of miraculous power, during their lunch time, during their lunch time, they have to pick a certain, the Hinayana, within the Hinayana person, one has to pick certain kinds of, there is a certain kind of ceremony each day before eating the meals. So they have to pick some kind of stick, so showing that the person is out of, going for the meal. And those who have the miraculous power, they can go through their

[64:16]

miraculous powers. And those who do not have the miraculous power, they remain in their town and they have the food there. So those with the miraculous power, those with the miraculous power flying and whatever, in many different states, so that was the day happened to be passing by. And then King Indabodhi, when Buddha met King Indabodhi, he asked him, please give me a teaching to get enlightened. And then Buddha told him, well, you have to become a monk and then you have to renounce your life and then you will get enlightened. And he said, no, I don't need that enlightenment. For me, the world is so pleasurable, you know. And even I am born as a jackal in my next life, I am not going to give up this lifestyle. I don't need that enlightenment also. And then, that was the, you know, sometimes the sometimes the interdependent, the very being element

[65:19]

to invoke a new teaching begins in a style like that. So then at that stage, Buddha immediately saw that King Indabodhi was a very very light energy and then he opened the mandala of Vajrayana and gave him a mission. And right instantly he got enlightened in the same state. And that is called the extremely light element where the mind, all the all the gross substantial element is absolutely not there. The element is so light that it just needs one initiation or one teaching and one introduction and there one finds one state and the mind gets liberated at that stage. So that is extremely superior being and perhaps most of us are not at that stage. I think maybe we are mediocre. And in mediocre there is superior mediocre, mediocre, mediocre. In the superior state there is superior, superior

[66:19]

and superior, mediocre and superior, inferior. And in the inferior there is inferior, inferior, inferior, mediocre and inferior, superior. So there is also, you know, basic general level but I guess there could be also infinite you see. I don't think so there would be a set of state, there are infinite stage of like that. Everyone has a different state of real different state of different state of level of mind gross subtle or some kind somewhere in them or all kinds of things. No one can just say you are that way. So therefore one of the reasons Buddha said, do not judge you know, unless one is completely realized, do not judge like that. So that is not very good. Anyway, so to understand, understand that presence, so Bodhisattva Yana is so important that once keep on unfolding unfolding, one really see, one has to see so clearly one's enlightenment

[67:21]

then it becomes very easy because you understand your value, you understand its effect, you understand its integration and to gain the state of realization, it's not far away. And because it's not far away those who have done a very good practice for instance in the land of Tibet where there have been so many great teachers and so many people who are able to practice so many people got the realization many lamas got realization there's been thousands of lamas those who have gained rainbow body and then there are many those who have not even do not gain a rainbow body but found their realization. So it has been something which has by understanding those points one responds from origination, one responds from the origination of the enlightened state and therefore one ceases the suffering of oneself. And that is something it's not that some people can do

[68:23]

and one cannot do. It is up to oneself. Whether we do it or not is simply, that's the main thing. And anyway, we're going to spend this time anyway. One has to see that if one spends time in a wasted way then one may go through a long time of suffering during that long time. When a person goes through a suffering, the suffering even though suffering itself is insubstantial by nature. The suffering does not have a very substantial nature in fact because it's like the suffering of a dream state. The suffering of a dream state is simply insubstantial in a way. But insubstantial appears like a substantial and that is what one has to take care because during that time if a person goes through that time then it's like a big hallucination experience when he goes through it. And so therefore those development practices are so important and I have so important in our life

[69:25]

and we have to go gradually and to use this every moment opportunity so that we can really be in our presence and then we can liberate the entire contact with the six senses. Now contact with the six senses as I said yesterday, there are various ways of doing meditation. Now in meditation there is the there is the Hinayana way there is the Mahayana way and there is the Vajrayana way. Now the Hinayana way there is there is no need to mention. In Mahayana there is meditation called the transformation meditation. The shifting meditation you see. It's almost like like like they sit and they let go out like like in the like they I do not I think you know the second teaching of the

[70:27]

the second teaching of Buddha Pashnaparamita it was the teaching which Buddha emphasized on the nature of emptiness. The nature of emptiness was specifically emphasized during the second teaching by which from the from the lowest realm to the top realm, the nature of the entire universe, the entire state is emptiness by nature. So the entire condition, the nature of condition is unconditioned by nature. So therefore so how a person practices that, how a person get to that stage is by practicing on emptiness. One just one dissolve that stage and one let go things out. For instance if you are doing meditation then a thought started to arise. You just push it out of your mind. So you let it go. There is an effort. It's trying to transform yourself. So you try to let it go. And there is an effort. And it's still an effort. And from that point it's not

[71:29]

considered the most ultimate teaching of Buddha. It is an ultimate. It is one of the closest to us ultimate but it's not ultimate because there is an effort to let go. Now Dzogchen teaching the way the present is introduced is not a teaching of letting go meditation. It's a letting be meditation as it is. And by letting be the self liberation blessing is obtained. That is the big difference between those two styles. One is letting go and one is letting be. And that is a very, very, very big difference. One cannot see the qualities of the wisdom by letting go. One can see the qualities of the wisdom by letting be. But now this is a very point that one can also misunderstand okay, letting be. This is where many people get confused. Okay, let's go and just do our usual stuff. And of course

[72:29]

one is the state of the time always manifest. You know, what I meant is we always present them ourselves all the time. But then what happens is you know, we may completely get caught up into the ordinary state again. If we just misunderstood this letting be, then we think oh, then let me, you know, just do my usual stuff exactly the way we are confused before we might start feeling that confusion again. And that is not really the point of what this letting be means. The letting be presence is within every thought, within every arising state. The arising state itself is the expression of the Rigpa. It's the expression of the presence. So when a person finds oneself within the presence, the entire manifestation, the display of the presence which is the expression of all different thoughts, whether it's the expression of samsara or whether it's the expression of nirvana, they equally want taste in the presence.

[73:30]

There is no particular choice that there is samsara and it's better I'm going to go there, this is nirvana, I'm going to go there, or there is samsara, I'm not going to go there. There is no choice at this stage because presence has liberated the entire state. And it's absolutely, it can trust itself like the sky trusts itself. The sky never sees that there is a black cloud and I don't like, and there's a beautiful rainbow and I like. But the sky is not distracted. The sky is not seduced by neither of them. That is how we have to find the presence of our Rigpa, the presence of our nature. So from the point of the last four days of the teaching, I've introduced from the Patrul Rinpoche's three phases teaching, which the view, meditation and action

[74:32]

are emphasizing the view, meditation and action. And this is the teaching of Garab Dorje, which Garab Dorje before passing into Parinirvana, he gave it from the space to Jambal Singh and then later it was passed on and it, and this is one of the main, main, main practices within the Nyingma school and the nature of this action and that is how that is how it is understood and it's something one has to one has to keep it, one has to practice it, one has to one has to realize that state, it should not be understanding, it should not be left away, the teaching should not be on the papers or whatever, the teaching should be practiced in our practical experience and through an experience, then one knows

[75:34]

how that presence, how the presence liberates the expression. That is the point, how the presence, and that is where one finds oneself liberation from samsara, from the entire birth of the existence, of the experience one can go through. The existence of the day life and the existence of the night life are equally same because night experience is one's own projection which is the display of the mind and the day is also the same experience and one is caught into that, into a very serious stage as we do not see things as light and one does not find the humour at all when one does not see the presence at all. So therefore it is one of the most pit instructions within the Dzogchen teaching, the Three Faces of Patrul Rinpoche and then from tomorrow I am going to begin the Mountain Retreat teaching of His Holiness Dzogchen Rinpoche and so that is the essential point

[76:34]

of this teaching. And now those if you have any questions we can do it here and then we will go through meditation session afterwards because now it is important to integrate that into meditation if you do not integrate that then there is no benefit. So any questions? Was the essence always and will it be always? The essence is always present there the presence of the essence is always there. Was it always? Yes, was it always, yes, always there. And will it be always? Yes, it is always there. When you see that it is just there. Yes. And the presence when a person recognizes the presence then the then the experience the trap of the experience the the

[77:35]

the distraction of the experience is liberated. And it was always there? It is always there. Yes, definitely always there. No question of that. I don't know it won't be there. How? Not possible. Yes. Like the ocean is always there and the waves are its expression. Not bad. Thank you. Would you explain a little bit more about the nine jhanas, what they are? The nine jhanas are the first is the three jhanas, including the Hinayana that is the that is the Sarvaka and Pratekabuddha Chitra Chitra

[78:37]

It goes with the within the Hinayana there is a Last night, this is a question from last night. Last night when you did the special fire puja and the pacification that was quite marvelous and is that something I and I am sure the other people there would very much like to be able to do that for myself and for other people. Is that something that you can give to us and we can do or not yet? Sure, you can do. Definitely. If you want to do, I will give. Yes, I will give it. Yes. I have to translate that and I will do the translation soon. And I can

[79:45]

give the transmission today. I can give the transmission of the morning fire practice and I can give the transmission of the evening fire practice. The morning fire practice is actually called sung practice. Sung means clear. Clear is practice. Clear the oscillation of the mind. Clear. Once it's clear, then the energy, the wisdom manifests. And the evening one is very beneficial actually. As you said, you know, one can immediately feel this energy. And so it will be good. So later I will give the transmission today. Thank you. Clarification on effort. You are saying that effort is required if we are trying to liberate the experiences with other ways of meditation. Yes. All that we need to do is experience the presence by being

[80:46]

with the presence. The experience is automatically liberated. So all I have to do is discover or be with the presence. And then the liberation takes place by itself. Until we completely get to the state of the presence, the effort is needed because otherwise one may seduce. That's the point. One will get seduced instantly. One gets distracted. So there is a presence. So you keep your presence so that you do not get seduced towards that expression. But once after a great deal of practice then the expression started to liberate in those three different ways. As the three different styles. And then you don't have to hold anything. Your state itself. The sun does not have to make any effort to be sun. The sun is sun. Then it's like there is not even one pride

[81:47]

within that state that, oh, I am greater than any being. There is not absolutely, not even the substantial thought at all at that stage. Not even substantial thought in a relative way, let's put it. Not even substantial thought that I have attained such a thing. Just clear and just there. And by that one can see that to reach that effortless state. So there is effort but the effort is like, you mentioned yesterday, like we are not going after the bones or the rocks that we saw. Just for the time being one needs some effort. The effort for the presence. The effort just for the time being it is like an effort but later the effort also will be liberated. Thank you. That's a very important point. At the moment one needs that effort, later the effort will be liberated also. If we do not have the effort at this stage

[82:49]

then the mind as we find ourselves instantly being seduced by all the expression. All the experience. Can you suggest some skillful means for recovering our attention when it starts going off on a chain of things? Yes. Basically it's very important to understand from that point to see the nature of the samsara which is suffering very clearly. To know how the samsara is. And to also practice on impermanence. And those give us some kind of support that person really understand that there is not much one can, when one has this precious human body one just cannot waste like that. So when one really feels that then they give a tremendous strength towards the stage. That is one way of doing it. And the other way is

[83:50]

I guess when you make a continuity practice as I said this morning. And every morning sometime you will have good experience and sometime you won't have good experience. But if you say oh good experience is good I will do. And the bad experience is bad I won't do. Then simply you are being caught by your own experience. Your presence is not there. The yogi should be there. Whether it's good or whether it's not good you have to liberate the whole state. And then you really find the presence clarity of that deeper mind. But until that you know here Patrul Rinpoche explained here he says you know there are certain kind of meditators when there is a good experience then they want to see. And when there is bad kinds of fearful scary experience then they don't want to have that. And that is not the correct way.

[84:52]

That is not the perfect way. One loses the presence. One is seduced into experiencing. So one has to liberate the whole state. So then if you make a regular every day that time like let's say one has to find one who is scheduled for working. And then every morning or every evening or whatever time during that time no matter what important is happening in the world you know almost even the Russians are going to put a trigger and throw all the nuclear missiles you go to your sitting. Or whatever is going to happen you are unaffected at this stage. And that will give I found myself that you know all the great teachers the continuity gives the birth of wisdom by itself. Well it mostly just shortened the leash of that dog because I was in the moon for so long. And sometimes

[85:54]

you can say strong Pe that's important to cut through it will completely liberate the development of subtle consciousness, the development of subtle habit experience will completely liberate the strong Pe. Say more about Pe. What is the energy of Pe? Ta is the male energy and Ta is the female energy. Like when you see the bell and Vajra. Bell is the emptiness. The bell symbolize the nature of emptiness and the emptiness nature is not simply an empty, it is a clarity experience. So the Vajra is the male energy and the bell is the female energy. The female energy is the emptiness and the male energy is the clarity. And you can separate those two they are union fundamentally. Like the example is like you see your face in the mirror or in the river, a reflection of oneself. If you say that you are not there, you are there. If you go to catch, you can't catch.

[86:56]

So that is how fundamentally one states, one cannot separate those two states. So the nature of the mind has an expression the presence has an expression that anything can arise. But the thing is that once we started to get caught, seduced to the experience, that is where one starts to build up all the habitual pattern then. So therefore seeing a strong pair, it clears and then one's become one's absolutely find everything as a food later on none of them affects. One finds oneself absolutely relaxed and absolutely free, absolutely liberated into no matter what that state of mind could arise in that state. Does pain move energy through? Oh yes, the pain completely cut that concept. If you have a very difficult concept which keeps on bothering you for many times you see it, if it doesn't it keeps on coming into your meditation say it one time, two time three time, then it will cut it

[87:57]

definitely. And it keeps on coming. Now, right after seeing pain, the way to look right after seeing pain is absolutely relaxed and see the nakedness of the awareness. But right after seeing pain, you say now where it has gone? You're inviting it. So that is important, right after the pain. Rinpoche, up to this point I, the way when I've been meditating, if I find myself on a train of thought I just drop it and then be aware of where I am. Now, is that pushing away thought? Say that again. If I find myself on a train of thought, I just when I realize I'm doing that then I stop the thinking and I be aware of where I am. Is that pushing away or is that a message to be aware? Sometimes it's also good to those who have not

[89:00]

those who have not done much meditation it's also good that you it is very important to a mind to have experience of some kind of balance also. Balance from the point where the mind can rest where the mind can come to trust and see itself. So from that point you put a flower that is very important, it's very great development. Put a flower and then just rest your mind on that. Those who have not done much meditation before so begin something like that and then not, then once you develop, then when it's time, then I will also tell you when to go to the next stage. That is also important those who have not done meditation. Or if you can see the present, then it's great. But if you can't you find yourself almost like no matter what, the presence becomes very hard and then the conditions are overruling you, overwhelming you then try to, you know, first make your state of mind like that

[90:02]

and then once you get it, then you can liberate that. So then if I'm, my mind if I'm concentrating on the flower and then my mind starts drifting, just drop it. Then bring it back. Bring it back. Thank you. Earlier you commented that if you're having trouble practicing that you could meditate on a bindu. What does that mean? Sure, there's certain kinds of bindu, certain kinds of lights you visualize in your heart or you visualize in your forehead and then your mind is it brings the restful to the mind. When you see like bindu in your heart, you know if your mind is absolutely wild sometimes, what you should do is you should visualize almost like a thumb-sized white white piglet bindu into your heart and then it's going out of your head going out of your head and spreading all over the place

[91:03]

by light and then they're coming back and dissolving into your head and then getting into your heart. That will settle the mind when the mind becomes very stable. So like that. Or you can or you can you can meditate on a flower or any one of those things. You've talked about the presence and continuing that into the dream state as well as the waking state. Is there a specific practice that we could use to help us facilitate the presence in the dream state? I think first we should work in the living state. If the living state during the daytime if we can keep the presence, night will automatically come. Night automatically comes. You see it very clearly. And then it will automatically come. If the light is there, light rays will naturally

[92:04]

come on. There is a Tibetan saying, if the gold is underneath the ground, the light will show up on the earth. That I haven't seen. I'd like to see. But it sounds something interesting. But anyway, if there is a sun, there will be light. No, it doesn't have any categories. So, if the day experience becomes clear, then the night experience becomes very clear. If you think all the day, if you start hating somebody at night, that karma projects, that experience projects, and you live within the realm of that experience. You see, that is how samsara is. When just going through that experience, what one is cultivating. Yes? Is it important or necessary to journey through? Depends on individual. Depends on individual.

[93:04]

As I explained, sometimes those who have not done much meditation before, then perhaps it is important to go like that. But it's important that a teacher really guides, a teacher guides the student, how it's happening. So in that way, when the teacher shows the clear nine yana path clearly, and the student really develops that compassion and openness, then you can go very quick, swiftly. It depends on the devotion and compassion and diligence. Is there any time that you recommend? At the beginning, those who are just starting meditation, start with 15 meditation, 15 minutes. Or sometimes you can have like 15 minutes, and then go to 20 minutes,

[94:04]

then go to half an hour, and I guess one can do those who really have the time to do one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening.

[94:14]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ