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Sesshin 3 Day 5 Teacher-student relationship

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the early
now she's looking though she talks about a student teacher and really children and teacher relationship
but i think if you
think about this not just as student teacher relationship but student student relationship
as well because everything that he says about shouldn't teach your relationship applies to students student relationship
or get your teacher relationship
peer relationships
as well as hierarchical relationship
some day i'll talk about hierarchy but right now
maybe i will
we tend to think that sometimes
we don't like the word hierarchy
people don't like a weren't hierarchy because hierarchy has the connotation of being domination
because there's a hierarchy someone's on the bottom and someone's on the top and then
someone else in the middle somewhere
so we don't know being in the middle with only being at the bottom
we don't like being a job you
maybe we don't like we we don't mind being on a tab but we don't like it when someone else's on the top necessarily
but hierarchy just is
there's no way to get rid of hierarchy because it it's true sense hierarchy simply means the place and everything the place of each thing in relation to everything else
so there's no way you can get rid of iraqi because every single thing exists in relation to send to everything else and that's called it's hierarchical position
which is higher archy hierarchy maybe lower archy or middle argument
it's simply the place that everything has in relation to everything else so some things are in high place seventeen general some people are in a high place and people are in a place
ah i'm the understand that if you think of the
a tassajara as a flower a flower have petals and a stem and
various name nomenclature is for all the little parts and so on the little parts and up to a flower
even though the flour is empty but without all those parts the flower doesn't exist the flower cannot exist without all of its parts that
in those parts are called the hierarchy
so in tassajara we all exist in a certain
each one of those resisting a place in relationship to all of the other positions and that's the hierarchy
it's not like the hierarchy is the boss position
the boss position is only one or the top position is only one aspect and the hierarchy
everyone if if each one of us does our takes our position seriously and does our best in our position and
i relate to all the other positions from our position
then each one of us is the boss
the practice period each one of us is controlling the practice period
the person at the bottom of the hierarchy so to speak if general labor if you'd general labor if you're picking weeds
and you do that position totally with confidence without
i just totally our internet you are controlling the old practice period
because you are
is important your position is as important as anyone else with position
making the whole thing work
so we say actually
this is where them
patrick gamay used to say jake
this practice is the practice of just one monk
when many aspects
so everyone's position is important
some positions seem more important than others
but actually each one
it is important is as any other one
so this is true hierarchy in that all the parts are working harmoniously together
for the same purpose
there's also that the heart that's the vertical position the horizontal position is that everyone in the same
everyone vertically horizontally everyone is on the same level
there's no upper or lower
if you only have hierarchy then you have power
but because we have a horizontal we have equality
so the balance of the vertical and the hordes i'm just like i was showing you in a swastika
the horizontal is equality the vertical is a hierarchy
the wisdom of
when manas our ego
gets wise is up
then we have equality
everyone exactly the same
and maneuvers nana
and becomes
the wisdom of
see everything in its individuality
the vertical
so how these to operate together is where practices
each one of us has our position which is different and we recognize the hundred differences and we appreciate all the differences
vertigo horizontally were on the same the abbot is no different than general labor
than they ever
vertical is vertical and horizontal lines horizontal vicky roshi used to say to people sometimes
i am the teacher and your the student next lifetime you can be the teacher and are being student
but this lifetime
i'm a teacher near the students are sometimes the teachers to students and sometimes to teach the students per teacher
but even so the teachers the teachers and students the student
this is how we understand our relationships

so he says how a teacher points out and students mistake is very important
if a teacher thinks that what his student did as a mistake he is not a true teacher
and then he qualifies then he said it may be a mistake
but on the other hand it is not an it is an expression of the students true nature
when we understand this we have respect for the students true nature and we will be careful how we point out mistakes
i don't nobody likes to have mistakes pointed out
even when we're simply teaching no one likes to be taught
we say we like to be taught
but when it comes to we like to be taught theory but we don't like to return actual practice
i want you to chop the carrots like this game and how much just my that was the white why should telling me what to do
i want you to to found the bell like this
why are they criticizing me
they don't like the way i do think we always think this way it's so hard to teach somebody something
because we resent it's not there so much that resent being taught but we feel heard that
someone recognizes or feels we're not doing something right
there were very delicate creatures
we can take a lot of physical pain but emotional pain really hard
so on
and but you know we're pretty good at the thing is
when we criticize when we teach it's not criticism but we receive it as criticism
we take teaching personally
so the teacher is not criticizing you personally the teachers simply saying i would like you to do it this way because dishes the way
where did it we would like to haven't done
but we take it personally but it doesn't like me didn't you know that they didn't like me to just that these criticize your name i'm hurt to this happens of time i've been through this for years so one has to
i have some skill so you know how how we address the situation is very interesting said the here as he shares
you know
don't think of this is the in the realm of mistakes
don't think of the mistake is a mistake necessarily even though it is a mistake
and when you correct someone to
how do you correct someone who are you addressing his wedding saying
they say i'll go
will be correct someone were correcting their
ah some nearby nokia
but we have to remember that they are dharma gaia as well
so when we address their nirvana nokia were also addressing the dharma kaja
so because dharma guy is everyone's show nature
but we only see the new monarch i am
we don't see the dharma kind when we're interacting with each other we don't we're not aware of the dharma i were only aware of the new monica ronnie aware of the manifestation called this person joe are married for susan
but behind are not behind them
as well
we're addressing the dom ah kiah were addressing buddha nature
the thing that but suzuki roshi that everyone
it felt so good about and didn't always understand where that he was always addressing your buddha nature whenever he would talk to you or even correct you or whatever it was always addressing your buddha nature your dime coyote your essence of mine
so you didn't ever feel that you were being criticized
because he didn't just address you
you're very careful
that not to offend buddha-nature
i think that's what it means you shows
when we understand this we have respect very or our students true nature
and we will be careful how we point out mistakes
i know also
the it works the other way around
you know the tinder students will feel offended by having things pointed out which are simply training
a points
and it's almost never that the students will say how are we offending you
our how we how are you managing to deal with all of our mistakes over and over every day without making a fuss
we never think about that know maybe we do but i never hear it i never hear he was a
i'm so sorry that you know i keep doing this over and over again
and how can you take this day after day
if if we realize that are
lack of concentration or lack of
i'm forgetting what is being taught day after day not paying attention
how that actually affects the person is doing the teaching
if will constantly we think about that i think it will help us to work a little harder to do things in a correct way
sometimes i will make some comments on how i think certain things are going
that's the tip of the iceberg if i want to have it
the tip top can be the foot of the big mountain of appellant real about
but it's okay because
i just accept the fence part of my life
totally do i have no resemblance but it used to be really frustrating
it's been very frustrating but i don't let it frustrate me as much as it used to
i remember seeing xavier has think
when i want your tassajara i don't look from one side of the added
i just go and going
in the scriptures five points are made about how to be careful
one is that the teacher has to choose his opportunity
her opportunity
and that point out the students mistake in front of many people so this is where you will be very careful about this point not to point out someone's mistake in front of other people so as to embarrass this person
what happens you know is once switch
the way we do something is so important because it when
and person feels
that it may feel attacked over offended than the the back is up against the wall and when your back as up against the wall there's no way out and so you have to retaliate in some way people feel that to retaliate in some way by getting angry or
i'm having a fit or something like that
so if possible the teacher points out the mistake personally in an appropriate time and place
secondly the teacher is reminded to be careful truthful
which means that teacher does not point out the disciples mistake just because she thinks it's a mistake
neither was it can't just keep pointing out mistakes
when the teacher understand why to disciple did so
she can be truthful
so we have to understand more than just what happened
and when we deal with each other you know we we deal with each other kind of face to face but behind the face or all these reasons why something happened
and when we go deeper into why is this happening what is it about this person that creates this kind of
response that we take as mistake
why and and when watching the background of this print hugo fairly deep and somewhat psychologically but
psychology is okay
in order and in order to understand try to understand why things happen the way they do and
oh so to could go around the other side and put yourself in this person's shoes
so to have this kind of identification
with the person when we know how to identify with the person then we relating
is on a different level
it's not just reaction to something that happened but it's getting burned up beneath some face value but and down to a deeper understanding
why things happened the way they do and why does this person always respond this way i react this way or what what's going on in a deeper way and when we put ourselves in the other person's position
then we can understand the person bitter and when we have this kind of
interaction that's what allows things to move and allows growth to take place
and allows for
transformation otherwise
just keep meeting people from making mistakes in some way and then drive people into a corner and the nothing will ever change except that people get more angry
and also
we become loyal to our resentments
may have a certain loyalty to our resentment and loyalty to our resentments is called revenge
if i don't i don't feel some kind of vengeful
attitude then i'm not being loyal to my feelings
that's why it's so hard to let go
feelings of resentment
and revenge separate
because if we don't then were not loyal to our feelings
and we feel defeated
so it's hard to let go
because we will you feel defeated or
this loyal
to our feelings
but if
we want to be loyal to
our bodies are to our feelings then we can they go
because we have a place to land
i'd rather be trying to be understanding than to be loyal to my
so the third reminder is for the decipher the teacher to be gentle and calm and speak in a low voice rather than shouting
shouting drives a person into a corner
so staying in a very low voice actually almost whispering whispering sometimes can be really good because then you bring the person into your competence this is what lovers do they whispered to each other because it brings you close the into confidence
sand intimacy
and it's important to set up and a feeling of intimacy and when there's a feeling of intimacy than something can happen you don't feel separate
from each other
you know it doesn't mean seduction that's that's a an aberration of intimacy but true intimacy is
to feel that you're on the same
ah in the same place
so there's no
no danger and you can be open to each other
so this is something very delicate like truthfulness but here the scripture puts emphasis on having a calm gentle attitude when talking about someone's mistake
so the fourth one is that the teacher gives advice or points out the disciples mistake solely for the sake of helping that person and does not do this just to get something of his chest
here the teacher is very careful noticing that the student is making some excuse for what he did i when a student is not serious enough
we're always making excuses
it it just we can't help it soon as we goes and well you know did it because and i banana you know
it's really nice with image of i did that i made a mistake
i have no place to stand gets really wonder
can do you have freedom that frees you totally
so then the teachers should just ignore that person until they become more serious
more sure is means that have any excuses
i remember when i learned that
when i was a little kid and i used to lived in long beach and i look at i used to work they had this old bathhouse
the building and eighties you know wonderful architecture and i'm worried there's a towel boy
and i used to get there late every day
and can make up way every single day with wait and the bus by the year laid every day and i said well the reason i'm late because and
no excuses
how excuses
he won't take any excuses
but a are reasons to not discuss their reasons

so the fourth one is a teacher gives advice or points out the disciples and shake solely for the sake of helping that person does not diligent okay so sometimes we should be a i asked this is the other side even though we give advice only for the sake of helping and student still and she's not mean to always be easy with a student where he
said that sometimes we should be very tough with the student or we can not help in intrusions
yeah so there's a point at which
just do this
because no matter what you do it doesn't help
so sometimes it's didn't just need to be shaken up or directly addressed and no nonsense
didn't do this or get out
also necessary and it's very clean very clean is not and had nothing to do with
there may be an edge to it
but it's
the maybe an edge to it and there may be some anger in it
anger sometimes is okay
but it's controlled anger it's not anger control you
when anger gets the upper hand then it's a problem even that can be good sometimes
anger will come up some kind of anger or disgust or
the end of the i'm at the end of my rope
and so that
the emotion is used
to make a point
rather than being used by the emotion and then you have no control
so all these emotions can be used if they're years properly
so the last one is the point to point out the students mistake with compassion which means that the teachers not just the teacher but also the disciples friend
so this is different than be as a therapist
if when you know therapist
client relationship in psychological and and separate
so if you are a client of a therapist or psychologist or
you don't have any social
a relationship then simply business
but in in our practice we practiced we live together we eat together we
sit together we do all of our activities together so it's a different kind of relationship so teachers sometimes mother sometimes father sometimes brother sister or friend or teacher or whatever so the
the teachers has aspects of all of those relationships you know the teachers the teacher and is just think these separate from student
teach your position student position there has to be distance in order for that to work but the same time some time there's an aspect of
fatherless or motherless or friendliness or whatever depending on what's needed are necessary of the time
so all of those
positions are useful
they're not positions to be attached to
so as a friend the teacher points out some problem or give some advice in a friendly way as your as your friend i'm going to i'm going to tell you this i if your friend
my though
so it is not so easy to be a teacher or to be a student and we cannot rely on anything even the precepts
we have to make our utmost effort to help each other and we did not observe our precepts just for the sake of precepts
or practice rituals for the perfection of rituals
but we are studying how to express our true nature this is important we don't practice
precepts just for the sake of precepts in other words we don't have a big set of rules and try to fit into the rules
the rules or guidelines to give us some way to think about how to act
they're not rules to be
in the vinaya school
there are two hundred and fifty precepts for months three hundred precepts are three fifty or whatever it is or nuns and the practice is how you keep those precepts perfectly
but that's not our practice
brass plaque
our practice is a practice of intuition
not a rules
when buddha shakyamuni he was
walking around with students people would come and say so and so is doing this very good idea and say well that said probably not so we won't do those things much do those things that don't have
this this is what it says in the scripture
then don't have sex with a monkey
the or a statue or don't don't take all another bug to death
these things happened
there was the couple of monks who were tickling another bug and they tickled him to death
that's where the expression control i'm tickled to death badly
ah and superior she did not like to have a lot of rules the more rule of you have the more you rely on rules instead of relying on
our intuition about what is right and wrong and
i'll talk about that tomorrow
then he says
we don't practice precepts for the sake of precepts a practice rituals for the perfection originals
we do do this ritualistic practices i don't consider what we do rituals i think the meaning of ritual in in religion is
for the priests the priests conduct rituals to and because they are the the priests are the intermediary between heaven and earth
and they conduct ritual this is it vedic rituals before buddhism where the priests were the intermediary between heaven and earth and they would intercede for the lay people to the god
that's ritual and it written that they created these rituals in order to do that but we do is more like formal practices that's the way i think about it or not
doing that kind of practice
anyway we call them rituals because we command and we you know do all our stuff formal practice
but we don't do it for the sake of don't trying to do something perfectly we do it in order to harmonize
we do this is ritualistic practice and aren't and to harmonize with each other
and harmonize with
i'm our true nature
let go of our ego and harmonize with without your nature that's the product that's the purpose of our rituals
you know we all dress the same way
black and brown
and ah
we give up our ideas about what we want to do who we are
now we just participate altogether
wholeheartedly in this activity that
makes us when person
it individual
where individuals doing this one thing
and we're not trying to make it perfect
we do it is
well and we do it the best we can you know
every time we over incense bow we just a chant we tried to do it the best way we can you know we aim for some kind of harmony and
breed or the bennett that's not perfection
we are doing it to to attain some perfect little jewel
because the way the way we do it given a lower bar mistakes and all of the sometimes
the channing is cacophony sometimes it's it's total harmony you know whatever it is it's perfect
that's why even know when it's rough you feel that roughness
but otherwise you carry that around all day while and then and then why don't they champion better math ever so
why can't we do it perfectly
no matter how much we try to do it perfectly it's still imperfect just like our life
but it's perfect as it is just doesn't meet our idea of perfection ago
we like go idea of perfection and just do it perfectly

so am i wrote some pictures if we do things with mindfulness and and with ease
even if we make a mistake it will be still be perfect
so if we do our rituals and a formality with with a kind of ease and with mindfulness can mindfulness
and in his balance each other
even if we make mistakes it will still be perfect
but we still try our best we always try our best
and yet we've made it when i come in i was feeling you know i try my best to do everything is well as i can but i don't always make it
but i always feel okay about it anyway
yeah i do not worry about it
baby you do some of us do
so anyway

this some
aspect of
teacher student relationship
precept so for anybody have a question yeah
take it
you can show us all much for the iceberg
shit on a whole bunch of what part of the iceberg or the iceberg
and the you know from week to me into his heart
maybe the
you said just go wants them to talk and berkeley berkeley maybe anything goes i mean it's pretty lives the forms and so far as a great spirit of toleration and i said once that
baby she wished in another lifetime you can be really harsh turn teacher but
as it happens causes and conditions of being a sign at berkeley forced you to be a favor
i didn't say that exactly
how to thank you for teddy bear
but i pondered over eight hours i i don't think the forms of lose
i think but i don't i can only criticize to a certain extent and then i let it go
that's all i can i can teach people over and over him but unless you teach the same thing over and over again every single day
it doesn't hold
that's true
the so that's why i don't i don't let myself get frustrated because i know
like if i'm teaching
these things that i've been sometimes i don't think on gg but if i take the thing over and over every single day it will work but i don't know who can do that
nobody can do that no one has time to do that
you know what would be
when i have thought is it would be good to have someone i'm
who teaches the dough on rio and that's all they do not you know someone it goes for one place to another and has like stays a month or a couple of weeks and just
directly teaches a dawn rio
every single day over and over the same stuff so it's in the bones you can't do this definitions in your bones so everyone makes a valiant effort that's true so that's why i can't criticize anybody because it's not that everybody doesn't make a big effort they do but we don't have the set up
up to to have that kind of schooling where someone has taught
in a way that
the best way we can think of
every day day after day after day
to make it work so even if i was real tough for a week wouldn't help
naperville but when help
i went somebody else a happening

let go
why i mean
and with the trailers not hang onto what you did before
today is the first time i ever said this even though i say exists it every day i'm saying it through the first time
oh hang on and anything know nothing behind it and she never did i never did find out if she ever did it right
yeah yeah have eight that don't lead they okay
that's a good example
they get example
does that actually might be okay
no i did well no i said that sometime yeah to let a that it
not to let controllers sometimes anger comes down and controls us
and it and that can it can be okay bremen say we should let any your controllers
sometimes anger come down and controls us and that may be okay
the the energy of that
impresses the person
the energy that impresses the person that you're talking to you make and they realize that yours that you are so frustrated at this happened
and so becomes it them
but it's not that you let that happen you just happened
you should just let that happen it just happened
not everyone can always control their emotions all the time
wondering how all of the line between
during a teacher relationship and understood with greenberg and went to fear or wanted children to assume the teacher role
that's not to tip assuming they teach your role than just the way we interact with each other peers know that by saying how you talk to somebody you know but this is a good question because
ah people take on students take on the role of critic
but the guy next door the next you're not doing it the way you think they should be doing it for a no no no to do this way
and then a christian for who are you to tell me now so if the way to actually deal with that sorry to say
is when you see someone next to you not doing it the way you think it should be done you should don't tell the progress meter if you're in the kitchen you should tell the tens of if you're in the shop you should tell the head of the shop the so what do you think about someone's are doing this
this way that okay or
and then they headed the shop or the tens out can talk to everybody and say now on this point i would like to do things this way that way you're not pointing out something to the person you're not pointing out the person's mistake personally is simply showing everybody
telling everybody something that we all should know
so it's not just personal view this person
and then we and then it
it becomes a lesson to everyone and not just pointing out somebody's mistake
so maybe that i really
i think that we shouldn't that that's something that we decided to do a long time ago and it doesn't always happen of course
but that is how that's the best way to to take care of something so that we don't all become critics of each other
have like
not how to deal with it
how the teacher work situation
sounds wonderful that the question is how yet

i find out the period
i'm happy
i e
how to take that energy
when you always
after a gradual change
no but
mean they always have to have compassion for the person
if you always have compassion for the person than that will help you to understand how to deal with it
and then go on to create a compassionate

environment for yourself
hush for yourself are so that you you instead of just reacting to the prison he responded
have you seen me what you're talking about his reaction
if you reached binding you don't even need a day with their question
responding means to step back and
no respond to
read and react react means acting the same way
when you react you become like a person they reacting you you become
who dat which you don't want to be
you become that which you're as
the machine is you react you become you you're attached to the person through that reaction when you respond your free and and death
situation and you can act in a
a way that
and he's not creating problem
you don't want to create another problem different deal with a problem is there
when you react you create another problem
then the original problem is often obscured because of the probably you create by reacting
then it got squabbling
and you didn't know you didn't know
so response proper response is what it's all about how do i make a proper response without reacting
you always have to he says that question the answer is in question

tangier in anyway