Good afternoon, everyone. Probably I should not have brought up the topic of mind. It took so much time. But before we return to Dōgenzu ten hokke ten hokke, I need to, not need to, but I'd like to introduce another older text. You know, this conversation between Hyoinan and this monk, father or father, who recited the Lotus Sutra so many times. Dogen quotes this story from the Record of Transmission of Lamp, or Dharma Lamp, or Keitoku Dento Roku, that was compiled in the early 11th century, exactly speaking, 1004.

[01:14]

And Huinan, the sixth ancestor, lived from the second half of the 7th and first beginning of the 8th century. So there are about 300 years between the actual time Huinan lived and this conversation was recorded. recorded and put in that text of transmission of LAMP. That means 300 years is a long time. And as you know, Dogen didn't appreciate the Platform Sutra. Platform Sutra is a collection of Huinan's sayings, but Dogen and also this person, Nanyo Echu, said someone changed it and added something strange.

[02:34]

And that was true. Platform Sutra was made and edited and revised again and again. And now we have the oldest version of the Platform Sutra that was stored in a cave in a place, a small town in the desert named Tung Fan. And the oldest version of the Platt-Holmes Sutra includes this conversation between Huinan and this person, Hōtatsu, or father. And the conversation is pretty much different. So, different. You know, when we study some core stories, my method is try to find as many versions as possible and read from the older versions to the newer versions.

[03:51]

Then we can see how the story was developed. Beginning, it's a very simple story. But it's getting more and more interesting and meaningful. That is how Chinese Zen people developed Zen literature. This one? Beginning of the 20th century. last century. probably within 20 to 50 people after Huinan's death, this was made. But today's scholars, Zen, Japanese scholars who studied the history of Chinese Zen, study, you know, this oldest, oldest version of the Flat Tom Sutra, and they think there are at least three layers

[05:10]

even within this oldest text. Three layers means the oldest one, the original one, original part, and added by someone, and changed by another one. At least three. So we don't know what is truly, really said by Huinnan or not. So we cannot trust anything. That's why Dogen's point, to study Buddha ways, to study yourself, is important. We can use all those different versions of the stories to study ourselves, not to find what really happened in the history. There's no way to find such a historical truth. Not only in the Zen literature, but also at least in Mahayana Buddhist scriptures.

[06:14]

There is no such historical truth. But there is a very important truth. The first sentence is very different from the version, Dogen quote. Another monk, this is a translation by Red Pine. Red Pine translated the Platform Sutra, the oldest version. And this is from Red Pine's translation of the Platform Sutra. This is a section of the record that different various monks visited Huinan and had some conversation.

[07:22]

Another monk named Fata, or Father, had been reciting the Lotus Sutra for seven years. but was bewildered as to its true teaching. So it doesn't say he recited 3,000 times. That's a very different thing. He recited the Lotus Sutra for seven years. I don't know how many times. Anyway. So he went to Chuo-shi, or Mountain, where Huenan lived, to pay his respects and asked the Master, Your disciple has been reciting the Lotus Sutra for seven years, but I'm bewildered as to its true teaching, and I have some questions about the Sutra. I was hoping the Master would use his vast wisdom to resolve them."

[08:29]

Then, Huenan said, In Zen literature, there are many jokes. Father's name is Ho, Tatsu in Japanese. In Chinese, Fa, Ta, or Da. And this Ho is Dharma. and Tath is to reach or penetrate. So, what Hyo Inan said is, Father, the Dharma penetrates the depth, but not your mind.

[09:41]

The Dharma penetrates too deep, but only your mind cannot follow it. The Sutra, Lota Sutra, doesn't have any questions. There's no problem in the Lota Sutra. But your mind has problem. So problem is in your mind. It's your mind that has questions. You search for the true teaching with a confused mind. But I uphold He said, Shinran said, I uphold the sutra because I practice true mindfulness. True mindfulness is shojo. Shojo is one of the six parameters. And also one of the Eightfold Noble Path.

[10:46]

meditation or samadhi or mindfulness. That means as far as we are thinking with our discriminating mind, this discriminating mind has questions. This thinking mind is a problem. So to be mindful means to let go. of such discriminative thinking, then there's no question. I guess logically that is true. All my life, I've never been able to read. According to the story, Huinan couldn't read anything. He couldn't read or write. He had no education. So, here, Yunnan asked father, if you read the Lotus Sutra to me once, I will understand as soon as I hear it.

[12:02]

So, he asked father to recite the Lotus Sutra. Then, he actually read. Father then read the entire sutra to the master. He read the entire sutra. This entire book. In Dogen's version, or later versions, he started to recite the sutra until the second chapter. And Hyoina said, stop. But in this version, he read the entire Lotus Sutra. As soon as Huinan, the sixth ancestor, or in the Turkish translation, Patriarch, heard he understood the Buddha's meaning and explained the Lotus Sutra to his father.

[13:09]

So that means he never read the Lotus Sutra until this moment. If you believe it or not, I don't believe this. You know, I don't believe this. John McRae was a great Zen scholar, and he wrote a book about the history of Zen. And when he read the Zen text, he had three or four principles. The first one is, it is not true, therefore it is important. We don't need to believe this. Anyway, so after hearing the Rota Sutra, Huinan said, the Rota Sutra isn't complicated.

[14:13]

Its several folios, folios means, I think, volumes, contain nothing but lessons in metaphor, the parables. The reason that the Tathagata expounded his explanation to include the three vehicles was simply because people are slow to understand. This is what is said in the second chapter. because people didn't understand the true dharma of one vehicle. He, Shakyamuni, expanded the teaching of three vehicles as a skillful means. But the sutra makes it clear that there is no other vehicle than the one Buddha vehicle. So only one vehicle is real.

[15:18]

Three vehicles are expedient. Then Huinan continued, Fata, pay attention to the one Buddha vehicle. So this one Buddha vehicle is the most essential point of the Lotus Sutra. Don't go looking for the two Buddha vehicles. and lose your own nature. So two vehicles means, in the Lotus Sutra, it means the Shuravaka vehicle and Pratyekabuddha vehicles. But I think what Huineng meant here is two vehicles is duality. duality between worldly dharma and beyond worldly dharma. Duality between duality and non-duality.

[16:23]

If we get into duality, we lose our mind. He said, lose your own nature. This nature is a sho in Bussho, or Bussho is Buddha nature, your original nature. And here in the sutra, you are going to find the one Buddha viku, Where can we find this one buddhaviku? I'll tell you. The sutra says, all buddhas and bhagavans only appear in the world as a result of the greatest of all causes. This is what is said in the second chapter. All buddhas appeared in this world because of the one great matter, or cause and conditions.

[17:31]

How is this teaching to be understood? How can we understand this one great matter? And how is this teaching to be practiced? Listen and I'll tell you. And he continues, when a person's mind, so he started to talk about mind, shin, and Again, what we've seen in this version of Huinan's talk is interesting. He said, when a person's mind has no thought, no thought is fushi. who is not, and she is thinking. So the person's mind does not think.

[18:36]

There is no thinking in the person's mind. And it is fundamentally empty and still. Our mind has no thinking and is empty and still, quiet. That is, as I said this morning, in the theory of the awakening of faith, the original mind nature is still and empty. But when the wind of ignorance blows, this mind starts to move. As soon as this mind moves, this mind is divided into two parts. One is subject, another is object. And subject and object interact with each other.

[19:42]

And we create all samsara. So, in this theory, To be enlightened means to return to this original nature by stopping this wind of ignorance. Then, you know, I think you know the name, one of the names of Samadhi, called Kai-in-Za-Mu-Ai. Zammai is Samadhi, and Kai is Ocean, and Ing is Seal. Seal, S-E-A-L, Seal.

[20:47]

Ocean Seal Samadhi. This Samadhi appeared in the Avatamsaka Sutra, Flower Ornament Sutra. And a common understanding of this samadhi is when there is no wind in the ocean, the surface of water is very peaceful without movement, then everything there near the water can be reflected exactly as they are. This is the meaning of kai in the My Ocean Seals Samadhi. So when we stop this wind, our mind becomes really peaceful without movement, without waves. Then we can see the things as they are.

[21:48]

That is the condition. This original nature is restored. To do so, we need to stop thinking. So what Fukihara is talking about is this idea. And Dogen is a very interesting person. He wrote another chapter or a fascicle of shogogenzo entitled Kaiinzanmai. And what he said is different from this idea. He didn't say we should stop the wind of ignorance. But in the very beginning of the first school, Kaiin Zanmai, or Ocean Seer Samadhi, Dogen said, when we walk the surface of the ocean, we are also walking the very bottom of the ocean. That means, you know, in the surface there are waves.

[22:53]

but waves are only in the surface. If we go deeper, then even there are waves on the surface, the bottom of the ocean, the deeper part of the ocean is always quiet. That means even the surface of our mind has waves. That's okay. That's not a matter, because that is always happening. But the important point in our Zazen is we are also working on this deeper part of the ocean, or as he said, kaitei, bottom of the ocean. So when we are practicing, our practice is not to stop thinking. and make the surface completely calm and without move, because it's not possible.

[24:04]

But we need to understand that our life, if we sit in this posture and letting go, our life leads to the bottom of the ocean, bottom of our life. That is samadhi. So that's the difference between dogmas. But to talk about Dogen Samadhi is a kind of confusion. I'm sorry. Anyway, so when we stop thinking, according to what Shunran is saying here, when we stop thinking and our mind is completely free from thinking, then the original nature is restored or revealed. When a person's mind has no thoughts, and is fundamentally empty and still, and free of false views.

[25:14]

So when we stop thinking, there is no false view, of course. That is the greatest of all causes, this condition. of no thinking in our samadhi is the greatest of all causes, means Ichidaiji-in-nen. That is what, you know, all Buddhas appeared in this world to point out this condition or stage or state of mind. without any thinking, any false ideas. That means when we stop thinking, you know, Buddha appeared. That is the reason all Buddhas appeared in this world. Which occurs when you aren't confused about the inside or the outside.

[26:21]

When you are free of dualities, so in order to enter such samadhi, we need to be free of dualities. That means dualistic discriminative thinking. If you are confused about the outside, that means the object we see or we experience, You are attached to forms. Forms. And if you are confused about the inside, you are attached to emptiness. So form and emptiness. When we attach form, that is delusion. But when we attach to emptiness, that is also delusion. We need to be free from both. That means we need to be free from any kind of discriminative thinking.

[27:27]

To be free of form amid forms. So to be free from form amid forms. When we are with forms, we should be free from the forms. But we also need to be free from emptiness. We are both free from form and emptiness. You aren't confused about the inside or the outside. So, what Shunran is talking about is this practice of no-thought. Please. I see a difference between just having a thought pop up in my head and then believing that thought is true, holding on to it as a belief. It seems to me what's being talked about here is not just thoughts occurring, but actually attaching to them as a belief.

[28:37]

So maybe Dogen isn't disagreeing with my name, if what they're talking about is not having beliefs. Beliefs? Yes. Belief meaning attaching to a thought. I believe this is true. As opposed to, I just had this idea. I believe this idea is true. Could that be what they're referring to as thinking, as opposed to just having a thought pop up? I think in the case of Huinan, when he said, no thought, I think our mind is completely quiet. No thought. But in the case of Dogen Zazen, I think thinking and non-thinking are both there. And those are happening beyond thinking. That is Shiryō, Hishiryō, and Fushiryō. So Dōgen's teaching and practice is very kind of unique.

[29:47]

There are many different approaches of meditation practice in Buddhism. But Dōgen's approach is kind of unique practice. It's there, but it's not there. Thoughts are coming and going, but we don't cling to, or we don't interact with them. Which is the uniqueness, the okayness? Okayness? You said it's okay, the thinking is okay. Yeah. So is that what is unique? Yes. So the goal of our practice, the Zen practice, is not to stop thinking. We need to make a distinction between thoughts that are coming and going, and I think. Then I think means those thoughts become the object of this person sitting. And that means there is a separation between subject and object.

[30:52]

And half of our mind becomes the object. those thoughts coming and going become the object of this person sitting. And I interact, and I judge this is correct or not correct, I like this or I hate that, or I need to stop this, or I want to continue this. When we do such interaction with the thoughts coming and going, then we are thinking. So, when we find we are thinking, you know, there's a separation within our mind. Our mind is divided into subject and object. And by letting go, you know, this separation disappears and we just sit. Right, yes.

[32:02]

It's okay, but when we become separate from them and we try to control, or want to, how can I say, use as I desire, then that five skandhas become mara. So they're like non-skandhas? Or just skandhas. without upadana. So, instead of pancha upadana skandhas, just skandhas, or empty or shunyata, shunya skandhas. That means five skandhas simply being five skandhas. It's not separate between five skandhas as subject and five skandhas as object.

[33:09]

Once you understand this teaching, your mind will develop in an instant. This develop is a translation of kai. That means open. In this translation, kai is translated as develop. When it appears in the world and it develops the understanding of a Buddha, Buddha means enlightenment or awakening. Buddha means awakening. And so he said, Buddha is not a person. Buddha is awakening. So awakening appears in the world.

[34:12]

It was in this practice. And this can be divided into four doorways. Developing, that is kai. The understanding of enlightenment. Manifesting, that is a translation of G. In my translation, I'll display or point out. Developing, manifesting, and realizing. The third is go, that is realizing. And fourth is new. So, Shonan said there are four kinds of stages for this awakening of Buddha to appear in this world. What's the same word in English? Enter. Yes, enter.

[35:17]

Where are the four? Open, displaying, realizing and entering. That is what is said in the second chapter of the Lotus Sutra. All Buddhas appeared in this world to open Buddha's insight and display Buddha's insight to living beings and allowed all beings to realize the Buddha's insight and enter. allows all living beings to enter the Buddha's insight. Developing, manifesting, realizing, and entering, that is kai-ji-go-nyu, all begin from one place. One place means within this practice of no-thought.

[36:20]

So, Huinan is talking about this as a meditation practice. From the understanding of enlightenment. This understanding of enlightenment is a translation of the Buddha's teaching. In my translation, Buddha's insight. But Huinan interprets this Buddha as awakening. Kaku. So, chiken of awakening. Understanding of awakening. When you see your own nature, you will appear in the world. I'm not sure about you, is correct or not. This means Buddha will appear in this world.

[37:25]

And Buddha is this awakening. This awakening appears in this world. When we practice meditation and our mind becomes completely free from thinking, Buddha appears. According to Shunran, this statement in the Lotus Sutra means all Buddhas appeared in this world only for one cause, causes and conditions. So all Buddhas means awakening, and appeared in this world means actualized within our practice. still freedom continues. I keep hoping that in their minds everyone in the world will develop the understanding of a Buddha and not understanding of unordinary beings.

[38:42]

Ordinary beings is shujo, living beings. So instead of butsu, chiken, Hinan said, shujo chiken, the understanding of ordinary people, ordinary beings. So we should develop Buddha's darshanam through this kind of practice, not develop human thinking. When people's minds are mistaken, They foolishly engage in evil and develop the understanding of unordinary beings. That is, instead of buddho chiken, shujo chiken, chiken or insight of ordinary beings. And when people's minds are true, they give rise to the light of wisdom.

[39:49]

and develop the understanding of a Buddha. That is butsu-jiken. When you don't develop the understanding of an ordinary being, but the understanding of a Buddha, that is when you will appear in the world. It's not you, but I think it's a Buddha, or this awakening appeared in the world. So, that is Huinan meant. He said we should understand what is said in the Lotus Sutra through or in terms of our mind. That means we should manifest or actualize what the Lotus Sutra said within our practice, using our body and mind. Shoyan continued, this is the Lotus Sutra's teaching of One Vehicle, so non-duality, which it then divided into three for the sake of deluded people.

[41:07]

So when we have two or more, three, then we are within the human thinking. But you should only take refuge in the one Buddha, bhikkhu. Bhikkhu means reality of oneness. Not separate or divide the reality or our life more than two. just see oneness of this reality without any discrimination. That is when this awakening and also Buddha appeared in the world through our body and mind. Hinan continues, When your mind practices, it reads the Lotus.

[42:12]

when your mind practices. So this is the birth of Huinan. It's kind of different from the one Dogen calls, Hokke Ten Hokke. So, Huy Duan's verse about this, in this version, is... Where is it? Shin Ryo TEN HOKKE FUGYO HOKKE TEN SHIN JA HOKKE TEN

[43:40]

shinja hokke ten kai butsu chiken kai butsu chiken ten hokke and kai shujo chiken hi, chiken, hi, hokke, ten. So longer than the version in this text. And this is shin, gyo, ten,

[44:48]

And, fu, gyo, okke, ten. Shin, ja, okke, ten. And, kai, kaibutsu, chiken, ten. Hokke. Kai, Shujo, Chiken, Hi, Hokke, Ten. And Red Pine's translation is when your mind practice, he said, he translated this gyo as practice.

[45:56]

Gyo is shugyo. Then mind practice. Then it reads. It reads, means, this mind, our mind reads Hokke Naroda Sutra. So... Read. Read. R-E-A-D. So he translated this ten as read, not done. Probably, you know, there is a compound such as ten doku. You know what ten doku means? in Japanese monasteries, on special occasions, you know, people, monks, hold the sutras, and like this organ. That is called ten-doku.

[46:57]

So ten-doku means lead. And ten, I don't know where ten comes from. Probably, you know, in ancient times, not only sutras, but all the texts were written in the scroll. When they read the scroll, they have to turn it, little by little. Probably that is what pendoku means, to turn the scroll and read the text. So this ten or ten also means read. Read the sutra. So when our mind is practicing, that mind reads the Lotus Sutra. But when the mind who is not, doesn't practice,

[48:03]

Hokke Ten is, this mind is turned or led by Hokke, by the Lotus Sutra. In this case, this practice means when you only read the sutra just as a word, without, how can I say, understanding and practice and transform our mind. Yeah. Then we are led by the Lotus Sutra. So, in order to really read the Lotus Sutra, we have to work with our mind by the teaching in the Lotus Sutra. Basically, what Shunran is saying is that we have to practice and become free from any thinking and restore this, you know, original nature of one's mind.

[49:08]

This one? When it doesn't practice, it means the mind. No mind. Probably because the number of the characters is limited, because this is a verse. But still the subject is mind. The mind, if the mind practices, then that mind leads the lotus. And when the mind doesn't practice, then hokke turns. That means the sutra leads you, your mind. You are led by the sutra, and when your mind is true, well, one line is missed.

[50:19]

When our mind is true, that mind can read the Lotus Sutra. And when our mind is not true or false, then we are led by the Lotus Sutra. And the next one is When you develop the understanding of unordinary beings, it is first, no, first, when you develop the understanding of a Buddha, Buddha's chiken, Buddha's darshanam, when we develop or open Buddha's darshanam, we read the Lotus Sutra, but when we open or develop the insight of ordinary beings, we are led by the Lotus Sutra.

[51:32]

When you develop the understanding of a Buddha, that is the Buddha darshan, You read the Lotus. When you develop the understanding of unordinary beings, the Lotus Sutra reads you. So in this case, in this ten, our tongue is translated as to read. It has to be Buddhist darshana, I think. So ordinary wisdom, ordinary people's wisdom is the Shakyamuni Buddha. Yes, that is what Fat Huinan said. We should develop Buddha's insight, not ordinary beings or human view.

[52:37]

So this is what Fat Huinan said about the turn and being turned by the Lotus Sutra. So it's up to whether our mind is practiced or not. When we only read the words written in the sutras, then we are led by the sutra. In order to read the Lotus Sutra, we have to really work on our mind. Do you mean read L-E-D or read R-E-A-D? R-E-A-D. Do you understand that as meaning that the content of the Lotus Sutra is talking about us? How do you understand the Lotus Sutra reading? That means we don't really understand what the Lotus Sutra is saying.

[53:43]

But when we turn, it means when we really practice following the teachings in the Lotus Sutra, then we turn and read the Lotus Sutra. Does it make sense? Then you don't understand the Lotus Sutra, but he said the Lotus Sutra leads you. You are led. You are led by the Sutra. That means you are just repeat what is written in the scroll. Yeah, I think so. That means, how can I say, unless we really understand what is written and apply that teaching to

[55:00]

our mind and also to our activity. We are just simply being read by the sutra. But when we actually practice following the Buddha's teaching in the sutra, we turn the sutra. That is what Yunnan meant. And finally, Huinan said, when you strive to practice in accordance with the Dharma, Dharma of the Lotus, this is when you read the Sutra. When you strive to practice, we are actually really practicing in accordance with the Dharma, the teaching. taught in the Sutra, then this is how we can read or turn the Lotus Sutra.

[56:10]

After that, Father, or this monk, heard these words. He suddenly experienced a great realization. His eyes wet with tears. He said, Master, I have never truly read the Lotus for seven years. For seven years, I have been read by the Sutra. In the future, when I read the Lotus with each thought, that means with each moment, I shall practice the practice of Buddha. The practice of Buddha is Gyo, Butsu Gyo. I'll practice Buddha's practice. So he, this person, Hotatsu, was transformed.

[57:20]

Before that he didn't understand, but somehow he believed just returning, reciting, or reading the sutra gives him some merit. Without understanding, even if he didn't understand. But what Father Huinan taught him is you have to practice to restore this mind nature within meditation. Then awakening. This awakening is Buddha. Buddha appears in the world. Then we are turning the Lotus, or reading the Lotus Sutra. Otherwise we are just being turned, or being read by the Sutra. So that is practice, Buddha's practice.

[58:24]

Then, finally, Hsui-Lan said, to practice as a Buddha is to be a Buddha. Does that make sense? To practice, I don't like this word, as a Buddha. But to practice, Buddha's practice, is to be Buddha. I think this is exactly what is said in the sutra of Buddha's final teaching. After Buddha's death, Buddha asked his monks, you should practice following my teaching. Then Buddha's un-destructive, un or in, I don't know, destructive Dharma body, Buddha's Dharma body, Dharma body of Tathagata is always present. So within, when we practice Buddha's practice, we are Buddha.

[59:30]

And this is also related with Dogen's expression, Ryo-butsu-i-gi. Ryo-butsu-i-gi is another fascicle of Shobo Genzo. Ryo is Sengyo, that means practice. And Butsu is Buddha. And Igi is usually translated as dignified decorum or dignified conduct. So usually this expression is read as practicing Buddha's dignified conduct. So, that is what is said. I practice Buddha's practice.

[60:33]

But, in Shobo Genzo Gyobutsu Iki, Dogen, instead of here, in this case, this is birth, and this is what is done. Buddha's dignified conduct. But, Dogen separates this phrase in the middle. and he reads this Gyo-Butsu as one word. And this is the name of Buddha. The Buddha whose name is practice. And Ii-Gi, so this is a dignified conduct of a Buddha whose name is practice. That means our practice is Buddha. It does not mean we are Buddha when we practice. We are still ordinary human beings. But within our dignified decorum, or our practice, this practice Buddha appears.

[61:43]

Does this make sense? So, I think Dogen likes what Huenan said in the end of this dialogue. But in the part of his practice of stop thinking, or completely no thinking, the mind restore the original nature, I think that part Dogen doesn't agree. Anyway, this is our oldest version of this conversation from the Pratama Sutra. Please. It could be a small point, but I take it as a big point. This year we've been studying embodied practice. Embodied practice. You made the distinction. You said you don't like the word as Buddha. Buddha's practice.

[62:47]

What I heard is, you don't like as impersonating or imitating, but you like the actual practice of the Buddha's body. I get concerned at the ease with which we can pretend to be Buddhists, by the way we dress, by the way we act, by the way we carry ourselves. And if something happens we don't like, we get very angry. It tells me that there's impersonation, but not embodiment. Am I just making a big thing out of a little thing, or is this important? Well, if we evaluate our practice, that is not Buddha's practice. So, we should really just practice.

[63:49]

That is what Shikan Dogen meant when he said, just practice our Shikan. Just sitting, Shikan, just do it. Without evaluation. Without evaluation, whether this is really a good practice or not. But we put our entire body and mind into what we are doing. That is our We practice Buddha's practice. But this practice has nothing to do with... We try to imitate what Buddha did. Thank you. Here we are. It's 4.20. Okay, now we can return to Dogen's. So in this version, you know, Huinan said, you must now believe that the Buddha's insight is nothing other than your own mind.

[64:59]

That is where we left from this text. Paragraph 9, end of paragraph 9. So I start from paragraph 10. So that is the part of another version of this verse. Paragraph 10. So, after he said, you know, this Buddha's darshanam, Buddha's insight is nothing other than our own mind. Then, to express this, he presents this verse.

[66:02]

And this verse, in Chinese, is shin mei hokke ten. And, shin, go, ten, hokke, ju, hyu, fu, mei, ko, yo, Gi. Sa. Shu. Ke. Mu. Nen.

[67:04]

Nen. Jo. Ja. Wu. Mu. Gu, Fu, Kei, Cho, Gyo, Byaku, Yushi, Sha, Shin, Mei is delusion. So mind is deluded. or mind is in delusion. Hokke is a lotus flower. Ten, in this case, I think, is better to translate as term. When mind is in delusion, the dharma flower turns the mind.

[68:11]

And shin, go, Go is realization. So when the mind is in realization, turn the dharma flower. So he changed the order of hokke, ten, and ten hokke. In this case, dharma flower is the object of this action, to turn. So when our mind is in delusion, we are turned by the Dharma flower, or the Lotus Sutra. And when our mind is in realization, then we can turn the Dharma flower. Ju is reciting, and Kyu is for many years, for a long time. Even if we recite this sutra for a long time, if we, fu is not, me is clarify, and ko is a self.

[69:28]

No matter how long we recite this sutra, unless we clarify our self, yo is with, gi is the meaning, and sa is become, and shu, ke means enemy. That means, unless we clarify ourselves, you know, we become the enemy of the meaning of the Lotus Sutra. That means we are opposite. contradicted against what is said in the Lotus Sutra. And munen. Munen is thought. So munen is no thought. And here is another thought.

[70:32]

So, munen no nen means thought of no thought. So, in this version, this becomes a little more complicated. You know, in the older version, Huinan said, we should be, the thought should be completely eliminated. Then, the original mind nature appeared, or revealed. But here, you know, there's thinking without thinking. So there is a thinking. But this thinking should be without thinking. Then... I'm sorry. This is opposite. First, U. Then, with thinking. Thinking with thinking. Thinking with thinking becomes mistaken.

[71:35]

And next one is... I'm sorry, again I missed one line. Munen, thinking without thinking. I'm sorry. First it says unen. Unen no nen. Thinking with thinking becomes mistaken. But thinking then without thinking is correct. In my translation, the thought of no thought is right thought. The thought of thought will go astray, means mistaken. So, in this version, this is kind of complicated, more complicated.

[72:41]

He doesn't simply ask us to negate, eliminate all thought. But there is two kinds of thinking. One is thinking with thinking. Another is thinking without thinking. So we need to understand what this means. Then, next he said, u and mu, that means being and non-being, without being, that means when we go beyond unen and munen. Then, we, cho means for a long time, that means forever. Gyo is, what is Gyo? Drive the white ox carriage.

[73:45]

That means one vehicle. One vehicle. The cart or carriage pulled by this white ox. So the point of fact is this thought without thought and thought with thought. I think this is whether those thinking are the root of those thinking that cut off or not cut off. And to cut off the root of thinking means letting go. By letting go, thought has no root. It's just coming and going. like the clouds in the sky. But when we don't let go, thought has the root, and it stays. And we have to, you know, fight against them, or we chase after them.

[74:48]

Somehow we are together with thinking. This is, I think this is the difference, as I said before, in our zazen. Thoughts are coming and going, and that is okay. But when we start to interact with those thoughts coming and going, then we are thinking. That is a thinking with thinking. But when even thoughts are coming and going, when we just sit, then thought has no root. It's just simply coming and going. Like clouds in the sky, somehow, you know, in the blue sky, somehow clouds appear, stay for a while, changing their shape, and disappear. That is, you know, the thought is there, but we don't think.

[75:51]

That is what we do in our Zazen. So that is our practice. Instead of eliminating all thoughts and restoring the original nature or original one mind, thoughts are there but we don't think. That is how, as I said, in Dogen's Kai in Zanmai, We don't eliminate the waves, but the waves are there. But our foot is on the bottom of the ocean. So within our Dazen, both are there. We don't fight against the wave, or even fight against the wind. But our foot is on the bottom of the ocean. That is very peaceful and quiet.

[76:58]

That means we are not overwhelmed by thought coming and going. We don't fight against them. But we just sit on the bottom of the ocean. Please? I would like to go back to the line the mind is in delusion being churned by the dharma flower and taking dharma flower to mean the Buddha's insight. Can this be read as you can practice right in the middle of your delusion? It's not a hopeless case to be deluded. That awakening occurs in your delusion. It's possible to occur in your delusion or is that not the meaning here? I think in the case of Huinan's saying, mind is in delusion, it's kind of negative. Negative. So, when our mind is deluded and we are turned by the Dharma, Dharma flower, it's not good condition.

[78:06]

So we should change, transform our mind into realization. Then we can turn the Dharma flower. That is the transformation of this person, Hotatsu or father. Before that he was turned by the Dharma, but now he can turn the Dharma. So this is transformation between delusion to realization or enlightenment. But in the case of those You know, he takes this part out. It means whether the mind is deluded or the mind is enlightened. But he just said, the Dharma flower turns into a Dharma flower.

[79:11]

That means there is no I, no self. only the Dharma flower turned Dharma flower, whether we are deluded or enlightened. So, to be deluded is not negative in the case of Dogen's interpretation. But to be enlightened and to be deluded, or whether we are turned Dharma flower, or we turn the Dharma flower. This is two ways of seeing one condition, or one reality. So, to be deluded, shinmei is not negative, and shingo, we cannot say shingo can be negative.

[80:14]

Is this ten that is read here, is this the same ten in Hokke ten hokke? Same ten? You mean this ten? Yes. Yeah. Hokke ten hokke. Yes. And when it's translated as turn, we would talk about turning the page of a book. Does it have that sense of turn? Is that meaning there or it's not there? It's more like turn. Turn is to move. Like, you know, bicycle. Bicycle is, in Japanese, called jitensha. Ji means self. Ten is turn. And sha is vehicle. So, self-turning vehicle. So, this turning, that means moving. Yes. Tenbo-rin. Turning the Dharma Wheel is the same word.

[81:19]

Please? The last line of the section we just read, when we consider either being or non-being, you write it in a white box card. Do you know why or do you have any ideas why you used a double negative there, instead of just saying, when we consider being or non-being, Is there a reason that you put the double negative? I understand English speakers or American people don't like double negative. But we, we means Japanese or Chinese or Buddhist writings, double negative is very common. For example, what is an example?

[82:24]

I don't dislike such and such. You don't want to say in that way. But to me, or in Japanese, for us Japanese, I don't dislike, it's not the same as I like that thing. I don't dislike that thing and I like this thing. It's different. So I'm... Yes, of course. Good for nothing. You know, in Parinikaya, someone asked, why we need to understand Dharma?

[83:30]

Why we need to practice Dharma? Then Buddha said, in order to achieve liberation. And the person asked again, what is the meaning of why we need to be... what is liberation good for? And Buddha said, to attain nirvana. But the person asked, then what is nirvana good for? And Buddha said, you ask too much. That means we cannot say nirvana is good for something else, but nirvana is good, period. That is what, when Sawakiroshi said, Dazein is good for nothing, that means Dazein is good, not good for something else. Dazein is good for itself, of itself. So, you know, this driving the ox cart is good for nothing.

[84:39]

Just do it. Please. Being turned means we are moved by. Moved by the Dharma flower. We are moved. Passive and negative. Because we don't understand. the teaching actually. In the case of reciting the Lotus Sutra, we just recite what is written, only words, the surface of the words. It has nothing to do with cultivating our mind.

[85:42]

Passive. Passive. It doesn't penetrate. Active. When the mind is in realization, turning the dharma flowers. Yeah, we can turn the dharma flower. We can express and express the dharma. But if you're reading, even if you're just reading the words of the Lotus Sutra, the Lotus Sutra is inspiring you even though you don't realize it. Otherwise, you'd read a comic book. That's why Dogen said, being turned by the Dharma flower is not negative. But in the case of Huinan, you know, when we think about this person's case, father's case, you know, before he didn't understand what is written, really understand, so he was bewildered. So he needs some help.

[86:43]

And because of Hinan's help, he could transform his practice or even his life. That is the difference. It's just incredible to me that the person helping him, Hinan, was illiterate. So Hinan could not turn the scroll. He could literally not read and really do the turning. Yeah. That means Hinan, who He had no thinking. Being free from that literal meaning of things. But he had Buddha's insight. But in the case of Dogen, he doesn't encourage us not to think, or not to read, or not to study.

[87:48]

We have to study, we have to read, study, and try to understand, yet we need to be free from both studying and understanding, and do it. I think so. In the case of Dogen's Hoketen Hoke, this term has nothing to do with read. To read, R-E-A-D, or not. Turn is moving, to move.

[88:53]

So it's more active. Yes. Please. Clinging. Clinging to the five skandhas. Clinging... some thought came from this clinging to make these five skandhas or so-called I more powerful or important or stronger than others We try to do many things. If our thinking is used with this attitude, then our thought has root. Does it make sense? And when it cuts off, it means our thought is not used for the sake of this person's ego.

[90:03]

But then the thought-thinking is used as a tool to express the Dharma. Right? So... Does it make sense? I don't think it... I think it's deeper than thinking. Even before we learned the language, we already have clinging. to the five skandhas, I think. But, you know, thinking and language or discrimination is used by disclaiming. And in the case of, for example, Yogacara's teachings, this clinging is done by the seventh consciousness, called Manas, or ego consciousness.

[91:11]

You know, in the deepest consciousness is called Araya. Araya is a storehouse. All the experiences we had in the past are stored there. But ego consciousness grasps those seeds stored in araya consciousness as me. This is, according to Yogacara, this is the nature of clinging. Does it make sense? Please. Another way of knowing. What does it mean? This is another way of experiencing that is beyond the perception of the past.

[92:29]

Is it another way of knowing and perceiving that is beyond the mind? I think his expression of dharma flowers turned a dharma flower. In this case, there is no separation between me and the object. So that means there is no perception. But this subject and object are turned together as both are dharma flowers. That is what Dogen meant with the expression Total function. Total function means self and others working together as one. That is how we really know things and ourselves.

[93:37]

So this knowing is not objective knowing as a perception and formation. But our entire body knows. Right. Yes. I think so. Yes. Same word. It's related to teaching the Dharma and receiving the Dharma. Yes. Thank you. Breeze? I think maybe it's related. It's like the power of the teacher being in that mind and Buddha being in that mind. So teacher and student working together.

[94:47]

In that sense, you know, not only teacher turned the student, but student turned the teacher also, working together. I'm sorry, again, it's too long. Thank you very much.

[95:12]

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