Good afternoon, everyone. Probably I should not have brought up the topic of mind. It took so much time. But before we return to Dogen's Hokketen Hokke, I need to, not need to, but I'd like to introduce another older text. You know, this conversation between Hyorinan and this monk, father or father, who recited the Lotus Sutra so many times, Dogen quote this story from the Record of Transmission of Lamp, Dharma Lamp, or Keitoku Dento Roku.

[01:06]

That was compiled in the early 11th century, exactly speaking, 1004. And Huynan, or the sixth ancestor, lived from the second half of seventh and first beginning of eighth century. So there are about 300 years between actual time Huynan lived And this conversation was recorded and put in that text of record of transmission of lamp. That means 300 years is a long time.

[02:07]

And as you know, Dogen didn't appreciate the platform sutra. Platform sutra is a collection of Huinan's sayings, but Dogen and also this person, Nanyo Echu, said someone changed it and added something strange. And that was true. The Platform Sutra was made and edited and revised again and again. And now we have the oldest version of the Platform Sutra. that was stored in the cave in a place, a small town in the desert, named Tungfang.

[03:10]

And the oldest version of the Platform Sutra includes this conversation between Huinan and this person, Hotatsu, or father. and the conversation is pretty much different. So, different. You know, when we study some koan stories, my method is try to find as many versions as possible and read from the older versions to the newer versions. Then we can see how the story was developed. Beginning, it's very simple story, but it's getting more and more interesting and meaningful. That is how Chinese Zen people developed the Zen literature.

[04:13]

Please. This one? Beginning of 20th century. Last century. How old do they think it is? probably within 20 to 50 people after Huyen An's death, this was made. But today's scholars, then Japanese scholars who studied the history of Chinese Zen, studied this oldest version of the Flat Home Sutra, and they think there are at least three layers, even within this oldest text. Three layers means the oldest one, the original one, original part, and added by someone, and changed by another one.

[05:26]

At least three. So we don't know what is truly, really said by Huinan or not. So we cannot trust anything. That's why Dogen's point, to study Buddha ways, to study ourself, is important. We can use all those different versions of the stories to study ourselves, not to find what really happened in the history. There's no way to find such a historical truth. Not only in the Zen literature, but also at least Mahayana Buddhist scriptures. There's no such historical truth. But there are very important truths. So then from where did they all come to hear this story? Was it an oral tradition?

[06:29]

Dogen quote from, as I said, from that record of transmission. The first sentence is very different from the version Dogen quote. Another Another monk, this is a translation by Red Pine. Red Pine translated the Platform Sutra, the oldest version. And this is from Red Pine's translation of the Platform Sutra. This is a section of the record that different various monks visited Hunan and had some conversation. Another monk named Fatah or Father had been reciting the Lotus Sutra for seven years, but was bewildered as to its true teaching.

[07:41]

So it doesn't say he recited 3,000 times. That's very different, I think. He recited the Lotus Sutra for seven years. I don't know how many times. Anyway, so he went to Tsuwashi Mountain, where Heunan lived, to pay his respect and ask the master, Your disciple has been reciting the Lotus Sutra for seven years, but I'm bewildered as to its true teaching, and I have some questions about the sutra. I was hoping the master would use his vast wisdom to resolve them." Then Shuinan said, In the Zen literature, there are many jokes.

[08:55]

Father's name is ho, tatsu in Japanese. In Chinese, fa, ta, or da. And this ho is dharma. And that is to reach or penetrate. So what Huyen An said is, father, the dharma penetrates the depth, but not your mind. But dharma penetrates deep, but only your mind cannot fathom it. The sutra, Lotus Sutra, doesn't have any questions. There's no problem in the Lotus Sutra. But your mind has problem.

[10:02]

So problem is in your mind. It's your mind that has questions. You search for the true teaching, with a confused mind. But I uphold, he said, Hina said, I uphold the sutra because I practice true mindfulness. True mindfulness is shou, zhou. Shou, zhou is one of the six parameters. and also one of the Eightfold Noble Paths, through meditation or samadhi or mindfulness. That means as far as we are thinking with our discriminating mind, this discriminating mind has questions.

[11:04]

This thinking mind is a problem. So to be mindful means to let go of such discriminative thinking. Then there's no question. I guess logically that is true. All my life, I've never been able to read. According to the story, Huynan couldn't read anything. He couldn't read or write. He had no education. So Huynan asked the father, if you read the Lotus to me once, I will understand as soon as I hear it. So he asked me to recite the Lotus Sutra.

[12:08]

Then he actually read. Father then read the entire sutra to the Master. He read the entire sutra, this entire book. In the Dogen's version, or later versions, he started to recite the sutra until the second chapter, and Huina said, stop. But in this version, he read entire Lotus Sutra. As soon as Huinan, sixth ancestor, or in this text translation, patriarch, heard he understood the Buddha's meaning and explained the Lotus Sutra to father. So that means he never read the Lotus Sutra until this moment.

[13:15]

If you believe it or not. I don't believe this. you know I don't believe this John McRae was a great Zen scholar and he wrote a book about the history of Zen and when he read the Zen text he had three or four principles the first one is it is not true therefore it is important laughter We don't need to believe this. Anyway, so after hearing the Lotus Sutra, Hyo Inan said, the Lotus Sutra isn't complicated. Its seven folios, folios means, I think, volumes, contain nothing but lessons in metaphor, the parabolas.

[14:27]

The reason that Tathagata expounded his explanation to include the three vehicles was simply because people are slow to understand. And this is what he said in the second chapter. because people didn't understand the true dharma of one viku, Shakyamuni expanded the teaching of three vikus as a skillful means. But the sutra makes it clear that there is no other vehicle than the one Buddha vehicle. So only one vehicle is real. Three vehicles are expedient. Then Xuanyuan continued,

[15:29]

pay attention to the one Buddha vehicle. So this one Buddha vehicle is the most essential point of the Roda Sutra. Don't go looking for the two Buddha vehicles and lose your own nature. So two vehicles means... you know, in the Lotus Sutra, it means the Shorabaka vehicle and Pratheka Buddha vehicles. But I think what Huinam meant here is two vehicles is duality. Duality between, you know, worldly dharma and beyond worldly dharma, or duality between duality and non-duality. if we get into duality, we lose our mind.

[16:32]

He said, lose your own nature. This nature is show in busho, or busho is Buddha nature, your original nature. And here in the sutra, you're going to find the one Buddha viku, Where can we find this one Buddha bhikkhu? I'll tell you. The sutra says, All Buddhas and Bhagavans only appear in the world as a result of the greatest of all causes. This is what is said in the second chapter. All Buddhas appeared in this world because of the one great matter, or cause and conditions. How is this teaching to be understood?

[17:35]

How can we understand this one great matter? And how is this teaching to be practiced? Listen and I'll tell you. And he continued, when a person's mind, so he started to talk about mind, sin, And again, in this version of Huyen An's talk, it's interesting. He said, when a person's mind has no thought, no thought is who she is. who is not and she is thinking. So the person's mind does not think. There is no thinking in person's mind and is fundamentally empty and still.

[18:48]

Our mind has no thinking and is empty and still, quiet. That is, as I said this morning, in the theory of the awakening of faith, the original mind nature is still and empty. But when the wind of ignorance blows, this mind starts to move. As soon as this mind moves, this mind divided into two parts. One is subject, another is object. And subject and object interact each other, and we create all samsara. So in this theory,

[19:52]

To be enlightened means to return to this original nature by stopping this wind of ignorance. Then, you know, I think you know the name, one of the names of Samadhi called Kai-in-Zanmai. Zammai is samadhi, and kai is ocean, and yin is seal. Seal, S-E-A-L, seal, ocean seal samadhi. This samadhi appeared in the Abhatansaka Sutra, or Flower Ornament Sutra.

[20:57]

And a common understanding of this samadhi is when there's no wind in the ocean, the surface of water is very peaceful without movement, then everything there near the water can be reflected exactly as they are. This is the meaning of Kai in the My Ocean Seals Samadhi. So when we stop this wind, our mind becomes really peaceful without movement, without waves. Then we can see the things as they are. That is the condition, you know, this original nature is restored. But to do so, we need to stop thinking.

[22:00]

So what Fukuyama is talking is about this idea. And Dogen is a very interesting person. He wrote another chapter of Fashikuryo Shodogenzo entitled Kai in Zanmai. And what he said is different from this idea. He didn't say we should stop the window of ignorance. But in the very beginning of the first school, Kai-in-zan-mai, or Ocean Seal Samadhi, Dogen said, when we walk the shore face of the ocean, we are also walking the very bottom of the ocean. That means, you know, in the surface there are waves, but the waves are only in the surface. If we go deeper, then even there are waves on the surface.

[23:10]

The bottom of the ocean, deeper part of the ocean is always quiet. That means even surface of our mind has waves. Dogen said, that's okay. That's not a matter because that is always happening. But important point in our zazen is we also working on this deeper part of the ocean. Or he said, kaite, bottom of the ocean. So when we are practicing, our practice is not stop thinking and make the surface completely calm and without move, because it's not possible. But we need to understand that our life, when we sit in this posture and letting go, our life

[24:14]

reach to the bottom of the ocean, bottom of our life. That is samadhi. So that's the difference between dogens. But to talk about dogens, samadhi, is a kind of confusion. I'm sorry. Anyway, so when we stop thinking according to what Huyen Anh is saying here is when we stop thinking and our mind is completely free from thinking, then the original nature is restored or revealed. When a person's mind has no thoughts and is fundamentally empty and still, and free of false views, when we stop thinking, there's no false view, of course.

[25:19]

that is the greatest of all causes this condition of no thinking in our Samadhi is great greatest of all causes means each dies in them that is what you know all buddhas appeared in this world to point out this condition or stage or state of mind without any thinking, any false ideas. That means when we stop thinking, you know, Buddha appeared. That is the reason all Buddhas appeared in this world. which occurs when you aren't confused about the inside or the outside, when you are free of dualities.

[26:25]

So in order to enter such samadhi, we need to be free of dualities. That means dualistic discriminating thinking. If you are confused about the outside, that means the object we see or we experience, you are attached to forms. Forms? And if you are confused about the inside, you are attached to emptiness. So form and emptiness. When we attach form, that is delusion, but when we attach to emptiness, that is also delusion. We need to be free from both. That means we need to be free from any kind of discriminative thinking.

[27:27]

To be free of form amid forms, so to be free from form amid forms, means when we are with forms, we should be free from the forms. But we also need to be free from emptiness. When we are both free from form and emptiness, you aren't confused about the inside or the outside. So what Huyen Anh is talking about is, you know, this practice of no thought. Please. I see a difference between just having a thought pop up in my head and then believing that thought is true, holding on to it as a belief. And it seems to me what's being talked about here is not just thoughts occurring, but actually attaching to them as a belief.

[28:37]

So maybe Dugan isn't disagreeing with Winnig if what they're talking about is not having beliefs. Beliefs. Yes. Not a belief really attaching to a thought. I believe this is true, as opposed to I just have this idea. I believe this idea is true. Could that be what they're referring to as thinking as opposed to just having a thought pop up? I think in the case of Huinan, when he said no thought, I think our mind is completely quiet. No thought. No, no. But in the case of Dogen's Zazen, I think, thinking and non-thinking are both there. And those are happening beyond thinking. That is shiryo, hishiryo, and fushiryo. So Dogen's teaching and practice is very kind of unique.

[29:43]

among the, you know, there are many different approaches of meditation practice in Buddhism. But Dogen's approach is kind of unique practice. It's there, but it's not there. Thoughts are coming and going, but we don't cling to, or we don't interact with them. Which is the uniqueness, the okayness? You said it's okay to think it's okay and don't think it's okay. Yeah. Is that what you mean? Yes. So the goal of our practice of meditation practice is not stop thinking. But we need to make a distinction between thought coming and going and I think. then I think means those thoughts become the object of this person sitting.

[30:47]

And that means there is a separation between subject and object. And half of our mind becomes the object. those thoughts coming and going become the object of this person sitting. And I interact and I judge this is correct or not correct, I like this or I hate that, or I need to stop this, or I want to continue this. When we do such interaction with the thought coming and going, then we are thinking. So when we find we are thinking, you know, there's a separation within our mind. Our mind is divided into self, subject, and object. And by letting go, you know, this separation disappeared, and we just sit. Is this the same logic that you were just describing there as the logic that you were using to describe the five-star class earlier, in the class earlier?

[31:53]

in also a sense that the five scholars are, they're okay, but it's one day. Right, yes. It's okay, but when we become separate from them and we try to control or want to, how can I say, use as I desire, then those five skandhas become mara. Or just skandhas, without upadana. So we said instead of pancha, upadana, skandhas, just skandhas, or empty or sunyata, sunya skandhas. That means five skandhas simply being five skandhas.

[32:55]

It's not separate between five skandhas as subject and five skandhas as object. Where we are. Once you understand this teaching, your mind will develop in an instant. This develop is a translation of kai. That means open. In this translation, kai is translated as develop. When it appears in the world and it develops the understanding of a Buddha. Buddha means enlightenment or awakening.

[34:01]

Buddha means awakening. And so he said, Buddha is not a person. Buddha is awakening. So awakening appear in the world within this practice. And this can be divided into four doorways. Developing, that is kai. The understanding of enlightenment. Manifesting, that is a translation of jī. In my translation, display or point out. Developing, manifesting, and realizing. The third is go. That is realizing. And fourth is new. So Huinan said there are four kind of stages. for this awakening Buddha appear in this world.

[35:08]

What's the same point in English? What's new in English? Enter. Enter. Yes, enter. Open, displaying, realizing, and entering. Entering. That is what is said in the second chapter of the Lotus Sutra. All Buddhas appeared in this world to open Buddhas' insight and display Buddhas' insight to living beings and allowed all beings to realize the Buddhas' insight and enter, allows all living beings enter the Buddhas' insight. developing, manifesting, realizing, and entering, that is, kai-ji-go-nyu, all begin from one place.

[36:15]

One place means within this practice of no thought. So he is, Huinan is talking about this as a meditation practice. From the understanding of enlightenment. This understanding of enlightenment is a translation of Buddha's insight. In my translation, Buddha's insight. But Huinan interprets this Buddha as awakening. Kaku. Kaku. So, chiken of awakening, understanding of awakening. When you see your own nature, you will appear in the world.

[37:17]

I'm not sure if you is correct or not. This means Buddha will appear in this world. And Buddha is this awakening. This awakening appears in this world. Often we practice meditation and our mind becomes completely free from thinking. Buddha appeared according to Shuinan. That is what this statement in the Lotus Sutra means. All Buddhas appeared in this world only for one cause and conditions. So all Buddhas means awakening, and appeared in this world means actualized within our practice. Sri Srividan continues, I keep hoping that in their minds everyone in the world will develop the understanding of a Buddha and not understanding of unordinary beings.

[38:42]

Ordinary beings is shujo, living beings. So instead of ,, said ,, the understanding of ordinary people, ordinary beings. So we should develop Buddha's darshanan through this kind of practice, not develop human thinking. When people's minds are mistaken, they foolishly engage in evil and develop the understanding of unordinary beings. That is, instead of buddha chiken, shujo chiken, chiken or insight of ordinary beings. And when people's minds are true,

[39:45]

they give rise to the light of wisdom and develop the understanding of a Buddha. That is butsu chiken. When you don't develop the understanding of an ordinary being, but the understanding of a Buddha, that is when you will appear in the world. It's not you, but I think it's Buddha who had this awakening, appeared in the world. So that is what Huening meant when he said we should understand what is said in the Lotus Sutra through or in terms of our mind. That means we should manifest or actualize what the Lotus Sutra said within our practice. using our body and mind." Hyoinan continued, this is the Lotus Sutra's teaching of one vehicle, so non-duality.

[40:59]

which it then divides into three, or the sake of deluded people. So when we have two or more, three, then we are within the human thinking. But you should only take refuge in the one Buddha bhikkhu, means reality of oneness. Not separate or divide the reality or our life more than two. Just see oneness of this reality without any discrimination. That is when this awakening and also Buddha appeared in the world through our body and mind. Huenan continues, When your mind practices, it reads the lotus.

[42:12]

When your mind practices, so this is the verse of Huinan. So it's kind of different from the one Dogen quotes, Hokketen Hokke. Huy Dan's verse about this, in this version is, where is it? Shin, Jyo, TEN.

[43:14]

OK. FUGYO. OK, TEN. SHIN. JA. Hokketen. Shinja Hokketen. Kai Butsu Chiken. Kai Butsu Chiken Tenhokke. And . . . So longer than the version in this text.

[44:40]

And this is shin. Gyo. Ten. Hokke. And fu. Gyo. Hokke. Ten. Shin. Ja. Hokke. Ten. And Kai. Kai Butsu. Chiken. Ten. Hokke. Kai. Shujo. Chiken. Hin. And Red Pine's translation is, when your mind practice, he said, he translated this gyo as practice, gyo in shugyo.

[45:58]

then mind practice, then it reads, it reads me, this mind, our mind reads Hokke Narottasutra. So... What's the word? Read. Read. R-U-A-D. So he translate this ten as read. Not tan. Probably there is a compound such as ten-doku. Ten-doku. Doku means, in Japanese monastery, on special occasions, you know, people, monks, hold the sutras and like this organ. That is called ten-doku. So ten, and doku means read.

[47:01]

And ten, I don't know where ten come from. Probably the ancient times, not only sutras, but all the texts were written in the scroll. When they read the scroll, they have to turn little by little. Probably that is what tendok means, to turn the scroll and read. The text. So this term also means read. Read the sutra. So when our mind is practiced, that mind reads the Lotus Sutra. But when the mind, who is not, doesn't practice, Hokke ten is, this mind is turned or led by Hokke, by the Lotus Sutra.

[48:12]

In this case, this practice means when you only read the sutra, just as a word, without, how can I say, understanding and practice and transform our mind. Yeah. Then we are led by the Lotus Sutra. So in order to really read the Lotus Sutra, we have to work with our mind. by the teaching in the Lotus Sutra. Basically, what Huida is saying is we have to practice and become free from any thinking and restore this, you know, original nature of our mind. This one? When it doesn't practice, it means the mind.

[49:22]

No mind. Probably because the number of the characters is limited, because this is a verse. But still, the subject is mind. The first part. Let's say that again. If the mind practices, then that mind reads the lotus. And when the mind doesn't practice, then Hokke turns. That means the sutra reads you, your mind. You are led by the sutra. And when your mind is true, Well, one line is missed. I don't need to write.

[50:25]

When our mind is true, that mind can read the Lotus Sutra. And when our mind is not true or false, then we are led by the Lotus Sutra. And the next one is, when you develop the understanding of an ordinary being, it is first, no, first, when you develop the understanding of a Buddha, Buddha darshanam, when we develop or open Buddha's darshanam, then we read the Lotus Sutra. But when we open or develop the insight of ordinary beings, we are led by the Lotus Sutra.

[51:32]

OK. When you develop the understanding of a Buddha, that is Buddha's darshanam, you read the Lotus. When you develop the understanding of unordinary beings, the Lotus Sutra reads you. So in this case, this term is translated as to read. Darsana? It has to be Buddhist Darsana. I see. So ordinary wisdom, but ordinary people's wisdom is the shochi. Yes, that is what Shri Nan said. We should develop Buddha's insight, not ordinary beings or human view.

[52:37]

So this is what Hunan said about the turn and being turned by the Lotus Sutra. So it's up to whether our mind is practiced or not. When we only read the words written in the sutras, then we are led by the sutra. In order to read the Lotus Sutra, we have to really work on our mind. Do you mean red LED or red R-E-A-D? R-E-A-D. R-E-A-D. OK. Do you understand that as meaning that the content of the Lotus Sutra is talking about us? How do you understand the Lotus Sutra reading? We are read by the lotus sutra. That means we don't really understand what the lotus sutra is saying.

[53:43]

But when we turn, it means when we really practice following the teaching in the sutra, then we turn and read the lotus sutra. Does it make sense? Except for he could have said that you don't understand the Lotus Sutra, but he said the Lotus Sutra reads you. You are read. You are read by the sutra. That means you are just repeat what is written in the scroll. the way it reads, there seems to be some kind of similarity in that . But the sense of it seems almost the opposite. Yeah, I think so. That means, how can I say?

[54:46]

unless we really understand what is written and apply that teaching to our mind and also to our activity. We are just simply being read, R-E-A-D, read by the sutra. But when we actually practice following the Buddha's teaching in the sutra, we turn the sutra. That is what Huinan meant. And finally, Huinan said, When you strive to practice in accordance with the dharma, dharma of the lotus, this is when you read the sutra. When you strive to practice, we are actually really practicing in accordance with the dharma, the teaching.

[55:58]

taught in the sutra, then this is how we can read or turn the Lotus Sutra. After that, father, or this monk, heard these words. He suddenly experienced a great realization. His eyes wet with tears. He said, Master, I have never truly read the Lotus for seven years. I have been read by the sutra. In the future, when I read the Lotus with each thought, that means with each moment, I shall practice the practice of Buddha.

[57:00]

The practice of Buddha is gyo, butsu-gyo. I practice Buddha's practice." So here this person, Hotatsu, was transformed. Before that he didn't understand, but somehow he believed. Just returning, reciting or reading, etc., gave him some merit. without understanding, even if he didn't understand. But what Hunan taught him is, you have to practice to restore this mind nature within meditation. Then, awakening. This awakening is Buddha. Buddha appeared in the world.

[58:02]

then we are turning the lotus or reading the Lotus Sutra. Otherwise, we are just being turned or being read by the sutra. So that is what, you know, practice, Buddha's practice. Then finally Huinan said, to practice as a Buddha is to be a Buddha. Does that make sense? To practice, I don't like this word, as a Buddha, but to practice Buddha's practice is to be Buddha. I think this is exactly what is said in the sutra of Buddha's final teaching. That is, after Buddha's death, Buddha asked his monks, you should practice following my teaching.

[59:07]

then Buddha's undestructive dharma body, Buddha's dharma body, dharma body of Tathagata, is always present. So when we practice Buddha's practice, we are Buddha. And this is also related with Dogen's expression, 行仏意義. 行仏意義 is another fascicle of Shōbō Genzo. is ,, that means practice. And is Buddha. And is usually translated as a dignified decorum or dignified conduct.

[60:15]

So usually, this expression is read as practicing Buddha's dignified conduct. So that is what it said. I practice Buddha's practice. But in Shobo Genzo Gyobutsu Iki, Dogen, instead of here, in this case, this is birth, and this is what is done, Buddha's dignified conduct. But Dogen separate this phrase in the middle And he read this gyobutsu as one word. And this is the name of Buddha. The Buddha whose name is practiced. And Igi, so this is a dignified conduct of Buddha whose name is practiced.

[61:22]

That means our practice is Buddha. It's not mean we are Buddha when we practice. We are still ordinary human beings. But within our dignified decorum or our practice, this practice of Buddha appeared. Does this make sense? So I think Dogen likes what Heunan said in the end of this dialogue. But in the part of his practice of stop thinking, or completely no thinking, the mind restore the original nature, I think that part Dogen doesn't agree. Anyway, this is our oldest version of this conversation from the Platon Sutra.

[62:25]

Please. It could be a small point, but I take it as a big point. This year we've been studying embodied practice. Embodied practice. You made the distinction, you said you don't like the word as Buddha, you like Buddha's practice. What I heard is you don't like as, like impersonating or imitating, but you like the actual practice of the Buddha's body, I get concerned at the ease with which we can pretend to be Buddhists by the way we dress, by the way we act, by the way we carry ourselves. And if something happens we don't like, we get very angry. It tells me that there's impersonation but not embodiment. Am I just making a big thing out of a little thing, or is this important?

[63:28]

Well, if we evaluate our practice, that is not Buddha's practice. So we should really just practice. That is what Shikan Dogen meant when he said, just practice our Shikan, just sitting, Shikan, just do it, without evaluation. Without evaluation, whether this is really a Buddha practice or not. But we put our entire body and mind into what we are doing. That is what we practice, Buddha's practice. But this practice has nothing to do with we try to imitate what Buddha did. Thank you. failure. It's 4.20.

[64:36]

Okay, now we can return to Dogen's Hokketein Hokketein. So in this version, Huinan said, you must now believe that the Buddha's insight is nothing other than your own mind. That is where we left from this text. Paragraph 9, end of paragraph 9. So I start from paragraph 10. that is the part of another version of this verse. Paragraph 10.

[65:43]

So after he said, you know, this Buddha's darshanam, Buddha's insight is nothing other than our own mind. Then to express this, he present this verse. And this verse in Chinese is, 心 眉 火気天 and shin, go, ten, okkire, ju, kyu, fu, mei, ko, yo,

[66:48]

Gi Sa Shu Ke Mu Nen Nen Zhou Jia Wu Mu, Gu, Fu, Kei, Cho, Gyo, Byaku, Doshi, Sha. Shin, Mei is delusion. So when mind is deluded, or when mind is in delusion, Hokke is a lotus flower.

[67:54]

Ken, in this case, I think it's better to translate as tongue. When mind is in delusion, the dharma flower turns the mind. And Shin, Go is realization. So when the mind is in realization, turn the dharma flower. So you change the order of hokke ten and ten hokke. In this case, dharma flower is the object of this action to turn. So when our mind is in delusion, we are turned by the Dharma flower or the Lotus Sutra. And when our mind is in realization, then we can turn the Dharma flower.

[69:01]

Jew is reciting, and Q is for many years, for a long time. even if we recite this sutra for a long time, if we, who is not, may is clarify, and ko is a self. If we, no matter how long we recite this sutra, unless we clarify our self, yo is with, Ji is the meaning, and sa is become, and shu ke means enemy. That means unless we clarify ourself, we become the enemy of the meaning of the Lotus Sutra.

[70:06]

That means we are opposite, contradicted. against what is said in the Lotus Sutra. And munen is thought. So munen is no thought. And here is another thought. So munen no nen means thought of no thought. So in this version, it's become a little more complicated. You know, in the older version, Huinan said the thought should be completely eliminated. then the original mind nature appeared or revealed. But here, you know, there's net thinking without thinking.

[71:08]

So there is a thinking, but this thinking should be without thinking. Then, I'm sorry, this is opposite. First, uru. Nen with thinking. Thinking with thinking. Thinking with thinking become mistaken. And next one is, I'm sorry, again, I missed one line. Munen, thinking without think. I'm sorry. First, it said unen. thinking with thinking become mistaken but thinking then without thinking is correct

[72:19]

in my translation, the thought of no thought is right thought. The thought of thought will go astray, means mistaken. So in this version, this is kind of complicated, more complicated. He doesn't simply ask us to negate, eliminate all thought, but there is two kinds of thinking. One is thinking With thinking. Anodized thinking without thinking. So we need to understand what this means. Then, next he said, Wu and Mu, that means being and non-being, without being. That means when we go beyond unen and munen, Then chō means for a long time.

[73:32]

That means forever. Gyo is drive the white ox carriage. That means one vehicle. One vehicle. The cart or carriage pulled by this white ox. So the point of fact is this thought without thought and thought with thought. I think this is whether those thinking are the root of those thinking that cut off or not cut off. And to cut off the root of thinking means letting go. By letting go, thought has no root. It's just coming and going, like the clouds in the sky.

[74:33]

But when we don't let go, thought has the root. and it stays, and we have to fight against them, or we chase after them. Somehow we are together with thinking. I think this is the difference, as I said before, in our zazen, sotra, coming and going. And that is okay. But when we start to interact with those thoughts coming and going, then we are thinking. That is a thinking with thinking. But when even thoughts are coming and going, when we just sit, then thought has no root. It's just simply coming and going. Like a cloud in the sky, somehow, you know, in the blue sky, somehow clouds appear, stay for a while, changing the shape, and disappear.

[75:44]

That is, you know, the thoughts are there, but we don't think. That is what we do in our Zen. So often that is our practice. Instead of, you know, eliminate all thought and restore this, you know, the original nature or original one mind. Thoughts are there but we don't think. That is how, as I said, in Dogen's Kai in Zanmai, we don't eliminate the waves, but waves are there. But our foot is on the bottom of the ocean. So within our Dazen, both are there. We don't fight against the wave or even fight against the wind. but our foot is on the bottom of the ocean that is very peaceful and quiet.

[76:58]

That means we are not overwhelmed by thought coming and going, or we don't fight against them, but we just sit on the bottom of the ocean. Please? I'd like to go back to the line, the mind is in delusion being turned by the Dharma flower, and taking Dharma flower to mean the Buddha's insight. Can this be read as you can practice right in the middle of your delusion? It's not a hopeless case to be deluded, that awakening occurs in your delusion? It's possible to occur in your delusion, or is that not the meaning here? I think in the case of Huinan's saying, mind is in delusion, is kind of negative. negative, so when our mind is deluded and we are turned by the Dharma flower, it's not good condition.

[78:07]

So we should change, transform our mind into realization. Then we can turn the dharma flower. That is the transformation of this person, a hotatsu or father. Before that, he was turned by the dharma, but now he can turn the dharma. So this is transformation between delusion to realization or enlightenment. But in the case of Dogen, in Dogen's Hokketen Hokke, he takes this part out. It means whether mind is deluded or mind enlightened, But he just said, dharma flower turns dharma flower.

[79:10]

That means there's no I, no self. Only the dharma flower turned dharma flower, whether we are deluded or enlightened. So to be deluded is not negative in the case of Dogen's interpretation. But to be enlightened and to be delusion, or whether we are turned Dharma flower or we turned Dharma flower, this is two ways of seeing one condition. or one reality. So to be deluded, shinmei is not negative, and shingou cannot say shingou can be negative.

[80:14]

Please. Is this ten that is red here, is this the same ten and ten, okay, same ten? You mean this there? Yes. Yeah, Hokke Teng Hokke. Yes. When it's translated as turn, you were talking about turning a page in a book. Does it have that sense of turn? Is that meaning there, or it's not there? It's more like turn, like turn. Turn is like to move, like, you know, bicycle. Bicycle is, in Japanese, called jitensha. Ji means self, ten is turn, and sha is vehicle. So self-turning vehicle. So this turning, that means moving. Yes. Tembolin, turning the Dharma wheel, is the same word.

[81:18]

Please? The last line of the section we just read, when we consider either being or not being, you write it in the way of the box of heart. So why are you having... ideas why instead of just saying would we consider being or not being is there a I understand English speakers or American people don't like double negative. But we, we means Japanese or Chinese or Buddhist writings, double negative is very common. You know, for example, you know, What is the example?

[82:21]

I don't dislike such and such. You don't want to say in that way. But to me, or in Japanese, for us Japanese, I don't dislike is not same as I like that thing. I don't dislike that thing and I like this thing is different. Right. So, I'm... Please? Is writing endlessly in the White Ops chart useless activity? Is that what that means? Yes, of course. Good for nothing. You know, in Parinicaya, someone asked, why we need to understand dharma?

[83:30]

Why we need to practice dharma? Then Buddha said, in order to achieve liberation. And the person asked again, what is the meaning or why we need to be, what is liberation good for? And Buddha said, to attain nirvana. But the person asked, then what is nirvana good for? And Buddha said, you ask too much. That means we cannot say nirvana is good for something else, but nirvana is good, period. That is what then Sawa Kiroshi said, zazen is good for nothing. That means zazen is good, not good for something else. Zazen is good for itself, of itself. So, you know, this driving the ox cart is good for nothing.

[84:39]

Just doing. Please? Helping. Being turned means we are moved by, moved by the dharma flower. We are moved, passive and negative. Why moved by dharma flower? Because we don't understand the teaching, actually. In the case of reciting the Lotus Sutra, we just recite what is written on the words, surface of the words. It has nothing to do with cultivating our mind.

[85:42]

That's it. It doesn't penetrate. We can turn the dharma flower. We can express and express the dharma. But if you're reading, even if you're just reading the words of the Lotus Sutra, the Lotus Sutra is inspiring you even though you don't realize it. Otherwise you'd read a comic book. That's why Dogen said, being tanned by the Dharma flower is not negative. But in the case of Huinan, when we think about this person's case, father's case, before he didn't understand what is written, really understand, so he was bewildered. So he needs some help.

[86:43]

And because of Huinan's help, he could transform his practice or even his life. That is the difference. It's just incredible to me that the person helping Huinan was illiterate. So Huinan could not turn the suit roll. He could literally not read and really do the turning. Yeah, that means Huinan, for Huinan, had no thinking yeah being being free from that literal meaning of things but he he had a buddha's insight But in the case of Dogen, he doesn't encourage us not to think or not to read or not to study.

[87:49]

But we have to study. We have to read, study, and try to understand. Yet we need to be free from both studying and understanding and do it. Please. I think so. In the case of Dogen's Hokketen Hokke, this Tan has nothing to do with read, to read, R-E-A-D, or not. But is it different than Turn is moving, to move. So it's more active. Yes. Please. Clinging.

[89:11]

Clinging to the five skandhas. some thought came from this clinging to make these five skandhas, or so-called I, more powerful or important or stronger than others. We try to do many things. If our thinking is used with this attitude, then our thought has root. Does it make sense? And when it cut off means our thought is not used for the sake of this person's ego. But then the thought thinking is used as a tool to express the dharma. Right?

[90:15]

So... Does it make sense? I don't think it's... I think it's deeper than thinking. Even before we learned the language, we already have clinging to the five standards, I think. But thinking and language or discrimination is used by this clinging. And in the case of, for example, the Yogacara teachings, this clinging is done by the seventh consciousness called manas, or ego consciousness. In the deepest consciousness is called araya.

[91:18]

Araya is a storehouse. All the experiences we had in the past are stored there. But ego consciousness grasps those seeds stored in araya consciousness as me. This is, according to Yogacara, this is the nature of clinging. Does it make sense? Please. Are you really talking about another way of knowing? Another way of knowing. What does it mean? Like you can know with your... We think we can know with our thoughts and our minds. So, you know, when the mind is in delusion, we are turned by the Dharma power.

[92:20]

The mind is in delusion. This is... Something much people already use the ocean. This is another way of experiencing that is beyond the precepts of the past. This is another way of now present another way of knowing and perceiving that is beyond the mind. I think his expression of dharma flower was turned dharma flower. In this case, there's no separation between me and the object. So that means there's no perception. But this subject and object are turned together. as both a dharma flower. That is what Dogen meant with the expression total function. Total function means self and others working together as one.

[93:27]

That is how we really know things and ourselves. So this knowing is not all objective knowing as a perception and formation. But our entire body knows. Right. Yes. I think so. One more question about churning. So as Tan was saying, we're does lose when Shakyamuni turns the dharma wheel. Yes. Same what? Same what? So it seems related to teaching the dharma. Yes. And receiving the dharma would be the other side. Yes. Thank you. Please. I think it's related.

[94:30]

It's like the power of the teacher being in that mind So teacher and student working together. In that sense, you know, not only teacher turned the student, but student turned the teacher also, working together. I'm sorry, again, it's too long. Okay, thank you very much.

[95:12]

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