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This morning we start page 9, the middle of page 9. The title is Dharma Body of the Self. Let me read this section. Also, we should hear and understand that The entire great earth is itself the dharma body of our self. It is the determined mind of living beings that we seek to know our self. And yet, it is rare that an eye sees the eye itself. Only Buddhas know this. The others, such as non-Buddhists and so on, vainly think that something which does not exist is their self.


The self talked about by the Buddha is nothing other than the entire Great Earth. For this reason, for all of us, whether we know it or not, by ourselves, There is no entire great earth that is not our self. The words of this moment should give way to the person of that time. So he has been talking about these four expressions using this entire great earth. And entire great earth is our true body. or the dharma body of our self. And this entire great earth is the gate of revelation and one I, one single I of Buddha.


And he repeated the same thing. Also we should hear and understand that The entire great earth is itself the dharma body of our self. We should... The Buddha teach or the masters express this. We have to hear and understand. But it's really difficult to understand. It is the determined mind of living beings that we seek to know ourselves. I'm not sure about other living beings, but at least human beings, we have to know what is the self. Because we can create many different kinds of fantasies about who we are. So we have to study. understand who we really are.


You know, a cat can be really a cat. It seems, I'm not sure 100%, but it seems a cat doesn't have fantasy to be like another being. But we can make fantasy. in our mind, because our mind has the ability to create something which is not real. And our mind can think of something which we don't see in front of our eyes. And that ability to create something is not there in front of our eyes. I think it's an important ability that makes us human beings. If we cannot see and think of something which is not in front of our eyes, we cannot write poems, we cannot make stories, we cannot have a vision, we cannot have a plan for the future.


All those are the qualities of human life. So that ability, is really important for us, human beings, to live as human beings. But if we are not careful, that same ability creates sansara, makes our life completely delusive. That is the problem. So we need to understand, learn and understand what is this self. And in the case of Buddhism, at least this traditional Buddhism, it says, and yet it is rare that an eye sees the eye itself. We need to understand who we are, what it means we are trying to seek who this person is.


So same as, you know, the expression, fire boy is seeking the fire, you know, this self is seeking the self. And as our eyes cannot see our eyes, it's really difficult to see our self. When we try to see our self, that self becomes object. And the self that becomes object is not really the self. You know, we can, how can I say, collect all the information about me, what I have been doing, and, you know, the things I write in my resume, That is all my information about who I am, what I have been doing. But when I read, you know, my resume, I'm not there.


These are simply information about who this person is. So they already, those information are not myself. Myself is this side. So it's really difficult or almost impossible to see this person as Sushi said in his poem of Mount Rue. It's not possible to see our eyes, but also it's not possible to see the entire mountain because we are in it. So how can we know who is the Self? Somehow, we have to study and we hear the teaching, like Buddha's teaching, and in this case, Dogen is saying this entire great earth is the Self, because there's no separation, because everything is connected.


But I think in the beginning it's really difficult to understand. So somehow we need a faith or trust within this teaching and we put ourselves into practice that is recommended by Buddhas and ancestors, then we can experience it. not as an object, but through our experience, we start to see that is really true. That is about practice and realization, or practice and verification. So, in order to put ourselves into that practice, I think we need some faith or trust in this teaching. And in my case, You know, I didn't understand what Uchamaru-shi's teaching when I first read his book, but somehow I wanted to live like him.


So that's why I wanted to study what he was teaching. I went to a Buddhist university and studied Buddha's teaching and the history of Buddhism and Dogen's teaching. I think I had some understanding about Buddhist teachings, but I didn't understand Dogen's teaching almost at all. But it's very attractive. Somehow very attractive, but I don't understand. You know, for example, in Bendowa, in that section of Jijyu Zanmai, he said, when we sit displaying Buddha mudra, then the entire universe becomes enlightenment, and each and every being reveals its own enlightenment, and the person sitting and all beings influence each other.


But later, he said, we cannot perceive it. My question was, if we cannot perceive it, why Dogen could see it? Why Dogen could write it in such a way if he couldn't perceive it? That was my question. And I didn't have an answer. I started to practice because my desire or motivation to live like my teacher. My practice is not based on Dogen's teaching. But my practice was based on trust to my teacher and my teacher's teacher. Both Sawaki Kodo Roshi and Ocham Roshi have been practicing Zazen their entire life. And that is Sapi. I could trust, you know, they live in this way.


So, because of that trust, I could continue to practice. If I have to understand what Dogen wrote, then there's no way I could continue. Because there are so many things I didn't understand. But after many years later, after, you know, practicing, I started to see fat dog and light make sense. Not as an object, but my life, my way of life, and my experience kind of approve fat dog and light is saying is true, even though I don't understand. So this is Dogen's teaching. Not only Dogen, but Buddhism is not a philosophy, but it is a religion. I don't like the word, English word, religion.


But Japanese word for religion is shukyo. So when I use English word religion, In my mind, I'm talking about shukyo. Shukyo is Japanese equivalent of religion. And shu means basic or essential truth. And kyo is teaching. So teaching about the truth. And basically this means Buddhism. Buddha awakened to the reality, or truth, and he taught about it. That is what the shukyo means. But the English word, religion, has a different meaning. So when I talk, I think, I say, you know, Buddhism is religion.


That means Buddhism is shukyo. The teaching, Buddha's teaching, and the reality to which Buddha awakened to. So we need faith. Faith is shin. This faith, without faith or trust, we cannot really practice. Please. Maybe spiritual practice, the word spiritual practice would be a better translation of shukyo. Shukyo? It's also up to spiritual means. Well, religion means really an institution, which you think about, where spiritual at least means something better than that, right? But fat is... But fat is spirit.


Spiritual means something about spirit, right? Can you just read the sentence we just read in Japanese? Which one? It's me. Manako. Manako is another word of me. I. Can you just read it? Read the entire sentence? Yes, just that. So I cannot see the self or I cannot see the I itself. Only Buddha knows. So this is about Buddha's I. Buddha's I is not the I we see some object.


But Buddha's I means the reality itself. So the others, such as non-Buddhists and so on, mainly think that something which does not exist is their self. Which does not exist means, you know, this I talked before, or Atman. That is something permanent and only one and owner of these five skandhas. and operator of this body and mind. According to Buddha, there is no such thing. But non-Buddhists, at least in the time of Buddha, thought that the soul is the true self, this body and mind are just a part of the self, or possession of the self.


Sooner or later it is dispersed, but this self is never destroyed. But what Dogen, not Dogen, but Buddha taught is the self talked about by the Buddha. is nothing other than entire great earth. That means in my expression that is this interconnect, the network of interconnectedness. It's not really a space of, you know, this universe or this planet. This interconnectedness is itself our self. for all of us, whether we know it or not by ourselves, there is no entire Great Earth that is not ourselves.


So this entirety of the network is ourselves. As I said probably yesterday, this know and not know, can be interpreted in two different ways. One is, as commonly we think, to know means we understand, and not to know means we don't understand. In that case, to know is better than not to know. But another interpretation is not knowing much more but much more. Because this reality is too intimate, because these are ourselves, so we cannot know. And that is, as Dogen said before, that is the way we know. That means, not know as the object, but, how can I say,


being animated by it and manifested through our activities or experiences. And the next sentence is a kind of a mystery to me. I don't really understand what this means. The words of this moment should give way to the person of that time. The word of this moment is clear. The entire great earth is our true self. That is the word. But what is the person of that time referred to? To me it's not clear what this means. of that time.


One possibility is, you know, the ancient Buddha or ancient master said these things, so we should trust those people's sayings. That might be one possibility. So we need to trust those masters' or Buddha's sayings. But another possibility, that is my guess, is this and that is often used in Zen literature and also in Dogen's writing. For example, Shari and Nari. Shari and shali means here and nali means there this or this or that this and that refer to this concrete reality we are facing and experience each and every day and there means ultimate reality or emptiness


So that time, the person of that time possibly referred to, you know, we are one of a lot of this network, and yet, as Dogen said, we are entirety of this network. This entire network is me. When we see ourselves as a part of it, as individual, Maybe this is here and this. And when we see this as myself, ourselves in this entirety, then the person of that time means not only here, but within, you know, entire time. I call this eternal life of Buddha. So, eternity, eternal self, or in Uchiyama Roshi's expression, universal self.


Universal means, seems like a space, but eternal means time, undivided, seamless moment. When we see ourselves as this entirety, then that can be the person of that time, not within this flow of time from past to future. That is one possible interpretation. I think that is what he meant here. If you have some other idea, please let me know later. Intimacy and limitless and boundless. In that next sentence he said, entire Great Earth is limitless and boundless, right?


So we need to both intimate and boundless. Yeah. With, you know, this... within this structure, you know, there is no bound. As I said, you know, this cycle is a problem. Actually, there is no such cycle or circle. This is intimate, that means, you know, each and every part of our body has billions of cells. These are actually one body. But each and every cell are, in a sense, independent. And yet they are intimately working as one body. I think the same idea, but in the case of this, there's no bound. In the case of our body, this is one kind of our body, so there's some boundary.


Does that make sense? Okay. Do you think maybe it's the ancient Buddha, how it starts out? That other person is the ancient Buddha who said these four statements? So, that ancient Buddha is not a particular person. So, maybe this is an ancient Buddha, probably. I heard, I read one time your teacher talk about the self, that it's only the self. Is that somehow relevant to what you're talking about? Yes, yes, Uttamaroji referred to this reality. When he says self, that is only the self. There's no others within this network. This network is itself the self. Then next paragraph he quotes sayings of one Zen master.


In ancient times, there was a monk who asked a wazi, when hundreds, thousands, millions of things come all at once, what should I do? The ancient wazi said, do not try to put them under your control. I'm sorry, this is not a literal translation. This is too wazi. In Chinese, only three characters. Before that, this person, this ancient Oji, is... I don't check the Chinese pronunciation, but his name is Hoju. It's said Sho. Ōshō. Hōjū.


Shō. Ōshō. Hōjū probably is the name of the temple he lived. And there's only one Chinese character for his name. This is a kind of a common practice in China. The final part of names is actual personal name. In my case, Sho-Haku. I think still in Rinzai monastery people are called with this final word, in my case, Haku. But anyway, so this person is not so well-known. But he is a disciple of Rinji or Rinzai. So he is a disciple of Zen Master Rinzai. The question is, are all different things, millions of things, happening at the same time and come to us?


What shall we do? And often these things happening give us a difficulty. problem. When it's joyful or enjoyable, we don't need to worry about it. But when we are asking, what shall we do? We usually think that is a problem. How can we deal with it? Actually, this is not some particular situation, but actually every day All the time, all those millions of things are happening around us. Not only outside, but even inside of ourselves, all those millions of things are happening. And what shall we do about this? That means everything is impermanent, so everything is moving and changing, including myself.


So we have to also move together. It's not possible, even I sit in the zen-do without moving, still we are moving. Even we are sitting without moving, still the entire earth is moving. So even when we sit still, we are moving. And everything in our body, billions of cells, are also moving and working. So that is the reality of impermanence, and things are always moving and changing. Then this person, Hojo Sho Osho, said, only three words. Mark is not, and I translate this kan as control, and ta is others.


So don't control those things happening. And this word kan, actually not only one, but this expression, marku kan, is appeared in Fukanza Zenri. In the beginning, when Dogen described how to sit, it said, let go of all associations and put all affairs aside. Do not think of either good or evil. Do not concern with their right or wrong, either right or wrong. This, do not be concerned with either right or wrong, is maku, kam, ze, hi.


Ze and hi is right and wrong. So this makkam In our Zazen, we let go of thought and we don't think of whether good or bad, evil or right or wrong. This opening the hand is, I think that this expression means And this kan, for example, is like a control or a deal with it. You know, the control tower at the airport in Japanese is kan seito. So in that tower, you know, people control everything in the airport. That is how this kam means.


We try to control everything and put them in order, desirable to me. Right? That is what kam means. And makkam means don't do that. Open our hands. Is it possible? Anyway, Dogen Zenji likes this expression. So, next paragraph is Dogen's comment on this expression, makukan, please. Is it a, is he recommending this, or is it a statement? Which? The, uh, not control others. Uh, he's, he's He discussed about whether this is a recommendation or a statement in the next paragraph.


So please read the next paragraph. What he meant is, let them come as they do. Do not try to move them in any way. All things that come are themselves buddhadharma. They are not objects. We should not grasp this thing as a wonderful admonition. We should understand that this thing expresses the true reality. So not admonition or not recommendation, but this is a statement. That means, anyway, we cannot control. So we don't control. No matter how hard we try, we cannot control them because we are part of it. So this expression, maku kanta, do not control them, is I think the same thing that


In Genjoko and Rogen Zen Shite's frame, we convey ourselves toward myriad things. Myriad things are things, billions of things happening. And try to carry out, practice realization, is delusion. But myriad things come to the self and allow the self to carry out, practice enlightenment. That is realization. What Doge is saying here is the same thing. We control this network, but we are living together and work together with all beings happening within this universe. Please. So, the difference between a recommendation and a statement is very important. Because as a recommendation, don't try to control things sounds like it could be criticized as being passive.


Right. And foolish. Yeah, do nothing. Like a control tower has a control. It's a good thing that they control things. But as a statement, that's different. And so is conveying oneself forward to experience a myriad of things, that's not a recommendation to not do that. Right, right. But when we do that, that is delusion. You know, we cannot, and yet we do. That is, according to Dogen, that is delusion. And yet, later, not in Genjo Koan, in Genjo Koan that is the meaning, but Later, for example, in Shobo Genzo Daigo, Daigo's great realization, he said, we need to return to delusion. So, you know, this active, or how can I say, conveying ourselves to millions of things is also important.


When we understand that is not possible, not to So and also to take care to take care of things You know that is what the Dharma I means among those five eyes. I just talked Yesterday afternoon in order to as a Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in order to help other people we need to make discrimination or discernment or distinction and knowing what is the real cause of the problem the person has. Because each and every person has different cause and conditions. So we need to convey ourselves to the situation and try to find what is really happening. That is in Dogen's definition in Genjo Kogan, that is delusion.


But we need to return to delusion. That means after we truly understand that is delusion, so we open our hand or makukan, don't control, and we really see we are part of it, then with this basic or fundamental attitude, then we can see and how these all myriad things are moving. and how that influences our life in a positive or negative way. So return to delusion is very important. Please. Roshi, do you see a difference between the word move and the word control? Move and control. In this case, move means move in the way we wish or we want.


So, I think in this case the same thing. For example, you know, there is a story about a fox and Baizhang, or Hyakujo, about if the great personal practice fall into cause and effect or not. And the previous Hyakujo said, such a person, such a person of great practice does not fall into causality. Then the person falls into the realm of animals as a wild fox. And that person asked the present Hyakujo, could you say something or could you say in a pivotal word? to allow that person safe from the realm of animal. And the Hyakujo said, what he said, in Gareki-nen, cause and result or causality is clear.


obvious as it is, something like that. Fen Dogen talks about this story with Ejo in Zuimonki. He said, Fudo Inga. Inga is cause and result. Fudo is not move. So here he used the same word with the same meaning. Don't move cause and result means, you know, we know causality or cause and result is working, but we don't see all the causes and all the results, but we kind of pick up a desirable cause and a desirable result.


For example, when we think we need to be healthy, then we do some exercise. And so the exercise is a cause of becoming healthy. That is a cause and a result in our wish. And that is okay. But there are many other causes and results. If we jog on the street and if we are not careful because of jogging for becoming healthy, we might be hit by a car and have a serious injury. But even in that case, the cause and result is working. But somehow in our mind, we only take cause and result as I wish.


That is how we move cause and result. We take out the undesirable cause and result, only think, if I do this, I will get that thing. That cause and result is very clear to me. But there are many other connections of cause and result and conditions. But we usually move the cause and result in a way that is good for me. So this move has the same meaning. Please. What was it that the current Yakujo said? Inga, what he said? He said, no, the first, the past Hyakujo said Furaku Inga. And the second, the current Hyakujo said Fumai Inga.


What is Fumai means? Does someone know the English translation? I thought it was someone who realizes the way is not dominated by cause and effect, but should not ignore cause and effect. Yeah, this my means dark or being dark, cannot... So... Greatly cultivated person is not blind to cause and effect? Right, right, blind. So such a person of great practice does not blind, in cause and result. I write it once as observe, observe cause and effect. So I just wanted to clarify a little bit more about this return to delusion. So carrying the self forward and approaching the varied things, controlling the varied things is the delusion part.


when the myriad things come forth and verify the self, that's the enlightenment part. So there can be some kind of embodied experience of this, some realization of this, and then, but still, you're a conditioned being, so then you see delusion as simply being the conditions of the moment. Is that what you're saying? But the lucid or possibly mistaken way of viewing things and understanding is the only tool we can use to understand and to help others. There's nothing available for us. So it's a vehicle for discernment. Yeah. So we need to understand, we need to know there might be a mistake. Whatever idea or skillful means we can offer, because we are not Buddha, so that might be a mistake or might be cause another problem.


And yet we cannot stop doing that. As I said, please. We use the expression, to take care of things, to study things and to take care of things. So there are times when we have to act in delusion. Yeah, so we are Bodhisattvas living within the three realms, three worlds. And yet we want to, you know, help others as a Bodhisattva vows. So we should not think I'm always right. I'm absolutely right. There's some possibility, even though I do my best, and yet there might be some problems caused by my action to help others. I think that is important, and that is another meaning of repentance. that we must be right in order to... I mean, we have to not do that.


Because billions of things are happening already, so we have to do something. That is about vow and repentance. We do our best, but there's some possibility of mistake, or actually we do mistake, or one thing helpful to this person might be harmful to other people. So there's always uncertainty. So we need to have, we need to be aware of incompleteness, imperfectness, of imperfection of our activities. Even though this is for the sake of others, then we need to make repentance. So when we have vow, we have to practice repentance at the same time. Please. So this paragraph of Dogen has sort of become my koan, and I'm generally in conflict with it.


It sounds really beautiful and so wonderful to embrace it. However, it was written in the 1200s. Right. In the 13th century, yes. In today's world, those of us that live outside the temple need to make a living. And it's really difficult to live by this, by allowing things to come to you, because you're expected to do things, to make a living. How does it feel to you today running a temple of your own? I think even though Dogen and his assembly lived in a mountain, in a small monastery, that situation is not so different from ours.


Even Dogen had to deal with the worldly politics and the economies and how to learn the temple, he had to negotiate a relation with the farmers around him. So, it's not so different, but, how can I say, this is the teaching and that kind of, how can I say, concrete way they manage their lives. in that age, in that monastery is not recorded. So it's not available for us as information. So these are the teachings and philosophy, teaching and practice that they think this is helpful for us and others and in the world to live in a healthy way.


So we need to be creative. We cannot just take this as a perfectly right teaching and this doesn't help us. So we have to be really creative. In my case, I was born and trained in Japan and studied and practiced this kind of teaching in Japan. and when I came to this country, you know, it's very different. So I cannot continue what has been practiced in Japan. And yet, I think, within our struggle with this reality, if we are bodhisattva or dōgen student or buddha student, how we can keep this attitude in dealing with those many different things in the world.


Okay, please. It seems to me, I mean based on what I've read and studied, that you could look at delusion and enlightenment as two sides of the same coin. That you could even say that enlightenment leads delusion, delusion leads enlightenment. The reality of things, we're in a non-dualistic way of looking at reality, and in a non-dualistic way, you can't have enlightenment as good and delusion as bad. Delusion is our life. I mean, delusion has a very bad sound for us, and maybe it is that also, but it is our life. Yeah, delusion and enlightenment are one of the very basic teachings of Mahayana Buddhism. Well, we need to go further. So, this statement of Venerable Master Makkanta, according to Dogen, is, no matter how hard we try, we cannot control them, so we don't control them.


This is the same logic as, you know, nothing can be grasped, so we don't grasp, we open our hand. Next, here's another quote. An ancient Buddha said, Mountains, rivers, the great earth, and human beings are born together. The Buddhas of the three times and human beings have always been practicing together." This is a quote, but we don't know, again, we don't know who is this ancient Buddha. And next paragraph is Dogen's comment on this thing. Paragraph 11 is about the first half of this saying.


So the saying is, mountains, rivers, the great earth, and human beings are born together. And Dogen comments on this. However, even if, page 11, However, even if we look at the mountains, rivers, and great earth, when a person is born, it does not seem that another mountain, river, or great earth is born on top of the mountains, rivers, and great earth that exist. However, the saying of the ancients should not be in vain. How should we understand this? Because we should not put this aside, even if we don't understand. Without faith, we should understand this. We should inquire into this. Since this has been already uttered by the ancient, we should listen to it.


When we listen to this saying, we also should understand it. So even though this ancient Buddha, we don't know who he is, the person is, said, mountains, rivers, and great earth are born together with this person. But when we see someone is born, it doesn't seem, you know, that another layers of mountains, rivers, and great earth are born with that baby. So what this means? And, you know, I think from here, this saying of Dogen, our ancient Buddha. Uchiyama Roshi said exactly the same thing. Do you have something to say? Well, in Uchiyama Roshi, in one of his books, I think he said that his idea was when a person


born, they bring the whole world with them, and when they die, they take the whole world with them? In this book, yeah. Yeah, this is How to Cook Yourself, Shida Uchiyama Roshi's comment on Tendo Kyokun. I'm happy, you know, they changed the title of this book. Before, this was something like From the Zen Kitchen to Enlightenment. I hate that title. But before that, the title Tom Wright made was Refining Your Life. That is another expression of Uchiyama Roshi. When I went back to Kyoto from Massachusetts, Uchiyama Roshi encouraged me to work on translation with Tom Wright. And the first work we did together was this book. And I recommend him to title this book as a cookbook of life.


Because that is more literal. The original title in Japanese is 人生料理の本 Jinsei is human life, and Ryori is cooking, and Hon is book. So, book of human life, cooking human life. So, Cookbook of Life, I think is a good title, but Tom Wright didn't like it. He said because English word cook or cooking doesn't have deep meaning. That is the problem. But this Japanese word ryori has a good meaning. This ryo means material or ingredient.


The material we use for cooking. And this ri means principle. So, ryori means using the material available and transform it based on or following the principle. That is what ryori means. So, the material in the case of human life, this is a material. This five scanners is a material. How to cook this? How to make This delicious, nutritious, healthy food is what ryori is about. So to me, you know, how to cook your life makes more sense. So I like this title better than From Zen Kitchen to Enlightenment.


Anyway, part of this book, Dogen, not Dogen, but Uchiyama Roshi said, we are born together with this entire world, and we live together with this world, and when we die, this entire world dies with me. That is the same thing with what this Dogen and this ancient Buddha is saying. What Uchamaru said is, in page 41, he said, as I mentioned in the opening chapter, the common notion of birth, birth being born, is that we arrive on the stage of an already existing world of human beings.


who communicate with one another, and that one more member has been added to the repertory company. By this same sort of reasoning, dying is seen to be nothing more than leaving the stage of humanity. he wrote a diagram, this kind of a common idea of our life. This world is like a stage, and one time we are born within this stage, and live and do something, some performance, and after a certain time we get out of this stage, And this stage is always there. But we appear, stay for a while, and disappear.


I think this is a very common idea or image of our life. This world is there already. But Uchamaroshi is against this common idea. In page 43, he says, When you are born, your world is born with you. And when you die, so dies your entire world. Your true self includes the entire world you live in. So what he's saying is exactly the same as Dogen is saying in Yoibutsu Yobutsu. world live in, and in this world there is no possibility of exchange.


Despite the fact that we possess a mind capable of discriminating, as shown in Diagram 2 and 3, even though we are able to communicate with each other in a general sense through language, this does not mean that but through our whole self lives only inside this world conceived in our head. So, he said this is a creation produced in our mind. As our actual life experience, this world is born and he wrote a circle and a person. this entire world is his own self. I think what Dogen is saying in Ueibutsu Yobutsu and what Uchamuroshi is saying in this chapter, in this book, is the same thing.


And recently, maybe last month, I received an email by someone who likes Uchamuroshi's teachings very much, And he said, this book and Opening the Hand of Thought are two most important books for the person. But I have, he said, the person said, I have one question or confusion about this description, this saying of Gyamuroji. If entire world is born when I was born in my world, and we live together with the entire world, and when we die, this entire world also dies together with me. If so, there is my world and another person's world, and each person has its own world. That means there are two, if we have billions of people, there are billions of worlds.


How, you know, if so, you know, it seems like very separate. My world is only my own, and another person's world is the person's own world. So it seems we are each very separate. We are living in a separate, different world. That was the question from that person. And I think that is a good question. So we have to think what this means. And I think what he's talking, when he talks about this way of viewing things, is made in our mind. And on this stage, something valuable and something not valuable and usually something valuable is like money or wealth and fame or status or those things.


There is some fixed system of value and we have to get in and follow that value. But what Fatou Jamroshi is saying is that kind of value system is man-made thing. So, when he discusses about this type of world, that is production of our mind. And when he says this type, this is actual relation with all beings, with the self. But if we make this a kind of idea, then there is separation. That is the problem. So we need to understand this is the world of actual life experience. This is not another kind of world view.


As our actual life experience, I was born, and I have been living for 60 some years. And because I know that even though my parents passed away, I'm still here, and this world still continues. So I'm pretty sure before I was born, this world was here. and there is a history. When we study the history, we understand what happened in the past. But those are the knowledge that we study and that we understand, and that makes sense.


So we think that is correct. But that past, before I was born, is something I cannot really experience. I'm not sure even after my death these people continue to live, but the life, the world after my death is something I cannot experience. So as a knowledge, as a thought, We think that is correct. I have no argument about that. But that is not the life or the world we can really experience as my world. But when we live within this lifetime, between birth and death, I study things about the past, so I understand that.


and I agree with it. So I don't neglect the knowledge we studied, but we also understand that is already gone. That is not my personal direct experience. So this world, the world that is born with me, and the world that is dying with me, is in Buddhist term, you know, there are six sense organs and six object of sense organs and six consciousnesses. We call this eighteen dharma dots. Sense organs, object, and consciousness. In this case, dharma dot means elements. eighteen elements of our life.


And, but this Dharma darts, darts also means world. Dharma darts can translate as Dharma world. And, this is entirety of our life, according to Buddhism. So, when Uchiyama Roshi is talking about the life or the world born with me, and die with me is these 18 elements, I think. And within this world, you know, everything is there as my object or my sense organs. And we create some consciousnesses and within the sixth, not the sixth, the fifth, skanda, that is our thinking, our consciousness, we create the world view.


Depending upon what kind of information we receive from the object, we create the world view. And this is one type of the world view we create, and this is very common within the world. We share the same understanding, but Still this is a production of our mind through our experiences. And this entire world, Dharma does, is born with me and die with me. For example, you know, we say this word, world, is like, you know, when I lived in San Francisco, there's a kind of an exhibition entitled The World of Ansel Adams, the photographer.


The World of Ansel Adams. When Ansel Adams lived, he really lived in that world, and he took photos, that is, the world he views. But the world he viewed is dead with him. But we can, you know, appreciate his world through his work. But his world is already gone. So, when Uchiyama Roshi is talking, or not only Uchiyama Roshi, but Buddha, or Dogen talks about this world that is born with me and die with me, is not some kind of objective world in which we are living together, but that is our world. I think that is important to make clear what they are talking about.


So as a thought I agree, you know, not this situation, I mean, structure. But we are living and sharing the life together with all beings. But the way I experience, the way I feel, the way I view is my own. And I am, I think I am responsible. Whether this world is a healthy world, or in good order, or disordered, it's up to me about this world we are living, each one of us is living. But this world of each person is completely How can I say Shavadita word?


permeate each other. So we think we are living together within one world. And I don't disagree about that idea or thinking. But when we think about the self and the world in terms of Buddhist teachings, We are talking about this world. In the diagram, there's the skandhas and the sense objects and then the consciousness. Is that the world? Yes, six sense organs. Eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind. And the object of six sense organs are color, sound, taste, smell, touch, and object of mind, and consciousness caused by the encountering of bees.


And what Dogen is talking about is bees are not separate subject and object, but bees are working together as one. That is what he has been talking in this Uebunsyobutsu. Okay. So where's the meeting place? I have my world, you have your world. If you said intermingle, so a bell rings, I hear it. I experience it, you experience it. Your experience is different from my experience. So this is the point of intermingling. There is an intermingling or connection or interactions.


I think so. For example, while Uchiyama Roshi, my teacher, was alive, I am part of his world as his disciple. But when Uchiyama Roshi passed away, the shohaku, that was his disciple in his world, passed away with him. But within my world he is still here as my teacher. Does it make sense? So this is about Dharma transmission also. I was part of his life as a disciple. and we share the same understanding and practice and way of life, attitude toward life, then his world and my world is a completely different world.


That is what in Dogon 4, what do you call, form is form, emptiness is emptiness. You know, his world and my world is a completely different world. And yet, we are really living together. I was part of his world, and he is part of my world still. So, this is how this strange thing called Dharma is transmitted, even though there is nothing to transmit. And yet, somehow, this Dharma is transmitted. That fire, you know, it is called the wondrous dharma. Wondrous means we cannot grasp. Somehow, wondrously, beyond thinking, that world is transmitted. Please. However, if we believe that our world is real,


That's delusion. Our belief can be delusion. But that is reality that we are living with delusion. I think. Even when we're aware that we're deluded, we cannot leave that delusion. We're just aware of it. So how come we return to it? How come we return to... You said earlier that in order to help people, we have to return... To delusion? To delusion, but actually we haven't left delusion. Because that is where we live. That is the only world we can live together with all beings. So, because of bodhisattva vow, we cannot escape from that world.


So, we have to live with delusion. Yes, we don't leave it. We become aware of it. Even though I said return to, there is no aparting and returning. We are always there. You have something? Yeah, in his poem. Could we say that the self knows what we need, but we don't know what we need? Right. I think that's okay. Well, the next paragraph is his answer to this question. But his answer is not so understandable to me, at least. Basically, he said it's because we don't know. Paragraph 12.


The way we understand this is as follows. When we inquire what this life is like from the side of this person who was born, who has clarified the beginning and the end of this life. Although we don't know either the end or the beginning, we have been born. This is simply the same as even though we don't know the edge of the mountains, rivers, and the great earth, we see where we are and we walk this place. Do not be sorry thinking that the mountains, rivers, and the great earth are not like our birth. We should clearly understand that the ancients said that the mountains, rivers, and the great earth are all equally our lives.


I understand this conclusion, but I understand why. He just said we don't see the beginning and the end. That's fine. This world is born with us. But to me there's something missing. Please. So to me this area and also what Chiyama Roshi is saying about the whole world being born when a person is born is essentially related to the concept of time being. Yes. You know that at each instant all things are born. The mountains are born. People are born. The sun is born. Right. And so, in the next instant, that's all died also. Yeah, it's impermanence. So, each moment, everything is born, stay for a while, staying, changing, and perishing in each moment. That is Buddhist understanding of impermanence.


So, in each moment, we are in the new world, with new life. Yes. But what Dogen says here is we don't know the beginning and end. And that is true, but what is the connection between this we don't know but we are born and we are living here and we walk here and this world is born with me. I don't see the exact connection, but possibly this means this world is beyond our understanding, beyond our viewing, beyond our thinking, but at least we are living here and now as my world, even though before that


we don't know, we cannot know what happened and after this we don't know what will happen. You know, as a knowledge we know the past things happened in the past and I think for now as a knowledge we know that this universe begins with something called Big Bang And it is, I don't know what Big Bang means, but it said before Big Bang, there's no time and space. Time and space is created, produced at the moment of Big Bang. But I don't think that is a beginning of anything, of everything. There must be cause and condition that Big Bang happened. And because we are inside of this system, there's no way to know So even though we know about this planet, we know more than Dogen.


He said he didn't know the age of mountains and rivers, but we know. So our world view is much larger, but still there's a limit. I don't think we can ever know why the Big Bang happened. There must be some cause and conditions. and we don't know how this world ends. But still, you know, we are living within this world, or this universe. We don't know why it happened, why and how it happened, and we don't know how it ends. Still, this is my world. So, Phap Dogen is saying we should know the limitation of our knowledge and understanding. That is my understanding. So my understanding is limited.


So if you have your own understanding, that's nice. Please? Pardon me? No origination. No origination? No origination. No origination. Which part of the Heart Sutra? No origination means no place to come from. It means nothing comes from anywhere. No origination. No birth. [...] No birth That is because we are like a bubble, a bubble in the water.


It comes and goes, but actually there is no such thing as a bubble which is born and which will die. Nothing is born, nothing dies. So it's not about where they come from. Is that the answer to your question? I don't know. I understand. Good. Please. Is the relation between a bubble and no bubble, or the relation between the world arises and ceases with me, versus the world, there was a world before me and I entered the state, Is that the same difference? Those two examples are both examples of the diagram you used, the picture of the old lady and the young lady, that is simultaneously the same thing is exactly the opposite.


I think so. That is how the painting is. I think I have the painting. I always carry this one. This is the one. Old lady and young lady. This is exactly one. So old lady and young lady are exactly the same thing. And yet, when we see young lady, old lady disappears. and when we see old Rebi, young Rebi disappear. So these old Rebi and young Rebi never meet each other. To me, you know, this explains what Dogen is saying. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form, and emptiness is emptiness, and form is form. So emptiness and form are exactly the same thing, therefore they never meet each other.


This is same as Buddha nature and karmic nature. Our five skandhas become Mara and also become Avalokiteshvara. So Mara and Avalokiteshvara, because they are exactly the same thing, they never meet each other. Each of them are 100%. That is what Dogen says, form is form. There's no emptiness. And yet, emptiness is already there and it is hidden. So, often we see young lady already is hidden and yet they are completely there. Do you understand that relation? So, same as, you know, delusion and realization. They are exactly the same thing, but completely different. So, therefore, they never meet each other.


Then we are 100% deluded human beings, and these five skandhas is completely mara. And yet, the same thing can be Prajna and Avalokiteshvara. But mara never disappeared. It's still there, but it's hidden. Yes, please. So then in the discernment of whether you're looking at the old woman or the young woman is the thing that makes the difference in terms of your insight or perspective? Insight, perspective, wisdom and also understanding through the teaching And also, inside, I not see as an object, but I experience by letting go.


When I grasp this me and try to satisfy this person's desire, then this five skandhas is Mara. But when I let him go, even I let him go, open our hand, things need to keep these five skandhas. It's naturally given as a gift. Right? We have somehow, I don't know why, there is air, and we can breathe. That's why we can live. So it's a gift. Our water, our food is the same. somehow, you know, it's given as a gift. Everything is making offering, and we receive offering. So we try to offer something to support others. So this is a circulation, natural, universal circulation.


That is where we can live. together with all beings. But when we are Mana, we think all other things around me is the material I can use to make me happy. I think that is a very slight difference, but that slight difference makes a big difference, really. It's similar to the passage about when hundreds and millions and thousands of things come, what should I do? This switch between seeing things as objects or as, what he says, everything is buddha, buddhadharma. So I think about that same phenomenon, which is called aspect perception, in that same way, thinking of everything as objects. Yeah. Sawa Piroj said, when we are taking a bath, you know, this is Japanese bath, big bath, It's like a pool. I think, you know, because we have spring, hot spring in the Sahara.


That is kind of bath. Even when we try to keep the water with me, it goes out. But if you push the water out, it comes back. So there's no boundary. But somehow, within our mind, make the boundary or wall between my territory and the rest of the world, and we calculate how much income and how much expenditure, outgoing. And when, you know, income is larger than outgoing, we feel I'm safe. My life is successful. But that is a kind of illusion within this world. Conventional world, it works only within human world. Human conventional world.


But we cannot save the air. Please? You mean the poem? Sure. How can I do that? I have... Actually, those poems are in Ehe Koroku. Volume 9. Volume 9 is a collection of 90 koans, and Dogen Zenji composed the verse of each koan. And this, I think this is number 25. in Volume 9 of Ehe Koroku. Dogen didn't quote the Sushi's poem, but I think in the footnote, we put Sushi's poem also.


Okay. Please. In terms of the five eyes, when you see those two aspects, that's basically discrimination, both sides. First to Andalmai. I think Wisdom-I or Prajna-I is freedom from discrimination, I think. And Dharma-I is put the gear into somewhere again. Often I talk about our Zen, I always use the analogy of driving a car.


When we put the gear into neutral, then the engine is still moving, but the car doesn't move. That is what we do in our zazen. Our brain is still working. That means our brain still produces thought, but this car doesn't move. That means we make a determination not to do anything based on those thoughts. I think that is Prajna-I. That means our Zazen is Prajna-I, so thought or discrimination is still there. But when we use Dharma-I, we put the gear somewhere, but we know those discrimination is not really absolutely true, but somehow we can use as a tool or a device to help ourselves and others.


So with the Dharma eye, looking at the picture, I'm seeing the old lady, but I always know the young lady is there. Equally, that would be the reflection of the Dharma. I think so. We see one at a time, but we know the other is already there. Okay, now it's already quarter to twelve. I hope I can finish this tomorrow morning.