Good morning, everyone. This morning we start page 9, the middle of page 9. The title is Dharma Body of the Self. Let me read this section. Also, we should hear and understand that the entire great earth is itself the dharma body of our self. It is the determined mind of living beings that we seek to know our self. and yet it is rare that an eye sees the eye itself. Only Buddhas know this. The others, such as non-Buddhists and so on, vainly think that something which does not exist is their self.

[01:10]

The self talked about by the Buddha is nothing other than the entire great earth. For this reason, for all of us, whether we know it or not, by ourselves, there is no entire great earth that is not our self. The words of this moment should give way to the person of that time. So he has been talking about these four expressions using this entire great earth. And entire great earth is our true body or the Dharma body of ourself. And this entire great earth is the gate of liberation and one eye, one single eye of Buddha.

[02:13]

and he repeat the same thing. Also, we should hear and understand that the entire Great Earth is itself the Dharma body of ourself. We should... then Buddha teach, or the Masters express this. We have to hear and understand, but it's really difficult to understand. It is the determined mind of living beings that we seek to know our self. I'm not sure about other living beings, but at least human beings, we have to know what is the self, because we can create many different kinds of fantasies about who we are. So we have to study and understand who we really are.

[03:18]

You know, cat can be really a cat. It seems, I'm not sure 100%, but it seems cat doesn't have fantasy to be like another being. But we can make fantasy. in our mind because our mind has the ability to create something which is not real. And our mind can think of something which we cannot, we don't see in front of our eyes. And that ability to create something, it's not there in front of our eyes, I think is important ability that makes us human beings, you know, If we cannot see and think of something which is not in front of our eyes, we cannot write poems, we cannot make stories, we cannot have vision, we cannot have plan for the future.

[04:27]

all those are the quality of human life. So that ability is really important for us human beings to live as human beings. But if we are not careful, that same ability creates samsara, makes our life completely delusive. That is the problem. So we need to understand, learn and understand what is this self. And in the case of Buddhism, at least this traditional Buddhism, it says, and yet it is rare that an I sees the I itself. We need to understand who we are.

[05:31]

That means we are trying to seek who this person is. So same as the expression, fire boy seeking the fire, this self is seeking the self. And as our eyes cannot see our eyes, it's really difficult to see our self. When we try to see our self, that self becomes object. And the self that becomes object is not really the self. We can't collect all the information about me, what I have been doing and the things I write in my resume. That is all my information about who I am, what I have been doing. But when I read my resume, I am not there.

[06:38]

These are simply information about who this person is. So they already, those information are not myself. Myself is this side. So it's really difficult or almost impossible to see this person as Sushi said in his poem of Mount Roo. It's not possible to see our eyes, but also it's not possible to see the entire mountain because we are in it. So how can we know who is the Self? Somehow we have to study and we hear the teaching like Buddha's teaching and in this case Dogen is saying this entire great earth is the Self because there's no separation, because everything is connected.

[07:43]

But I think in the beginning it's really difficult to understand. So somehow we need our faith or trust within this teaching and we put ourselves into practice that is recommended by Buddhas and ancestors then we can experience it and not as an object but through our experience we start to see that is really true. That is about practice and realization or practice and verification. So in order to put ourselves into that practice, I think we need some faith or trust in this teaching. And in my case, you know, I didn't understand what Uchamoroshi is teaching when I first read his book, but somehow I wanted to live like him.

[08:53]

So that's why I wanted to study what he was teaching. And I went to Buddhist university and studied Buddha's teaching and the history of Buddhism and Dogen's teaching. I think I had some understanding about Buddhist teachings, but I didn't understand Dogen's teaching almost at all. But it's very attractive, somehow very attractive, but I don't understand. You know, for example, in Vendôa, the section of Jiji-yô-zenmai, he said, when we sit displaying Buddha mudra, then entire universe become enlightenment, and each and every being reveals its own enlightenment, and the person sitting and all beings influence each other.

[09:56]

But later he said, we cannot perceive it. My question was, if we cannot perceive it, why Dogen could see it? Why Dogen could write in such a way if he couldn't perceive it? That was my question. And I didn't have an answer. But then I started to practice because my desire or motivation to live like my teacher. My practice is not based on Dogen's teaching. But my practice was based on trust to my teacher and my teacher's teacher. Both Sawaki Kodo Roshi and Ucham Roshi have been practicing Dazen their entire life. And that is certain. I could trust they live in this way.

[11:00]

So because of that trust, I could continue to practice. If I have to understand what Dogen wrote, then there's no way I could continue, because there are so many things I didn't understand. But many years later, after practicing, I started to see what Dogen writes makes sense. not as an object, but my life, my way of life and my experience kind of approve what Dogami is saying is true, even though I don't understand. So this is Dogen's teaching, not only Dogen, but Buddhism is not a philosophy, but it is a religion. I don't like the word, English word, religion, but Japanese word for religion is shukyo.

[12:10]

So when I use English word, religion, In my mind, I'm talking about shukyo. Shukyo is Japanese equivalent of religion. And shu means basic or essential truth. And kyo is teaching. So teaching about the truth. And basically, this means Buddhism. Buddha awakened to the reality or truth and he taught about it. That is what the shukyo means. But the English word religion has a different meaning. So when I talk, I think, I say, you know, Buddhism is religion, that means Buddhism is shukyo. The teaching, Buddha's teaching, and the reality to which Buddha awakened to

[13:15]

So we need faith. Faith is Shin. This faith, without faith or trust, we cannot really practice. Yes, please. Maybe spiritual practice, the word spiritual practice would be a better translation of shu-kyo. Shu-kyo? It's also up to what spiritual means. Well, religion means really an institution which you think about where spiritual at least means something better than that, right? But what is spirit? Spiritual means something about spirit. Please don't worry. Thank you.

[14:18]

Anyway, please. Can you just read the sentence we just read in Japanese? Which one? And yet it's rare that an outlier... Okay. It's... Manako. Manako is another word of me, I. Can you just read it? Read the entire sentence? Shika are domo manako no mizu kara oba miru mono mare nari. Hitori hotoke no mi kore o shire ri. So I cannot see the self or I cannot see the I itself. Only Buddha knows. So this is about Buddha's I. Buddha's I is not the I we see some object, but Buddha's I means the reality itself. So the others, such as non-Buddhists and so on, they think that something which does not exist is their self.

[15:32]

Which does not exist means, you know, this I talked before, or Atma. that is something permanent and only one, and the owner of these five skandhas, and operator of this body and mind. According to Buddha, there's no such thing. Non-Buddhists, at least in the time of Buddha, thought that soul is the true self. These body and mind are just parts of the self, or possession of the self. Sooner or later it's dispersed, but this self is never destroyed. But Buddha taught is the self talked about by the Buddha is nothing other than entire great earth.

[16:42]

That means in my expression that is this network of interconnectedness. It's not really a space or this universe or this planet. This interconnectedness is itself our self. And for this reason, for all of us, whether we know it or not by ourselves, there is no entire great earth that is not ourself. So this entirety of the network is ourself. As I said probably yesterday, this know and not know can be interpreted in two different ways. One is, as commonly we think, to know means we understand, and not to know means we don't understand.

[17:52]

In that case, to know is better than not to know. But another interpretation, not knowing much more, not much more, but is because this reality is too intimate because these are ourselves, so we cannot know. And that is, as Dogen said before, that is the way we know. That means... not known as the object but being animated by it and manifested through our activities or experiences. And the next sentence is a kind of a mystery to me.

[18:54]

I don't really understand what this means. The words of this moment should give way to the person of that time. The word of this moment is clear. entire great earth is our true self. That is the word. But what is the person of that time referred to? To me it's not clear what this means. Is it of or at? Person of. Kano toki no hito of, not at. Of that time. One possibility is, you know, the ancient Buddha or ancient master said these things, so we should trust those people's sayings. That might be one possibility.

[19:54]

So we need to trust those masters or Buddha's sayings. But another possibility, that is my guess, is this and that is often used in Zen literature and also in Dogen's writing. For example, Shari and Nari. Shari and Nari. Shari means here and Nari means there. This or this or that, this and that refer to this concrete reality we are facing and experiencing each and every day. And there means ultimate reality or emptiness.

[21:00]

So that time, the person of that time possibly referred to, you know, we are one of the knot of this network. And yet, as Dogen said, we are entirety of this network. This entire network is me. When we see ourselves as a part of it, as individual, maybe this is here and this. And when we see this as myself, our service in this entirety, then the person of that time means not only here, but within entire time, I call this eternal life of Buddha. So eternity, eternal self, or in Ujjamaa Loshe's expression, universal self.

[22:10]

Universal means seems like a space, but eternal means a time. undivided, seamless moment. When we see ourselves as this entirety, then that can be the person of that time, not within this flow of time from past to future. That is one possible interpretation, and I think that is what he meant here. If you have some other idea, please let me know later. Please. Entire great universe and intimacy. Then today's sentence is, I can interchange the entire great universe and the intimacy too.

[23:14]

Like the self-talk about the Buddha is nothing other than the intimacy. Intimacy and limitless and boundless. In that next sentence, he said, entire great earth is limitless and boundless, right? So we need to both intimate and boundless. Yeah. With, you know, this... within this structure. There is no bound. As I said, this cycle is a problem. Actually there is no such cycle or circle. This is intimate. That means each and every part of our body, it has billions of cells. These are actually one body. but each and every cell are, in a sense, independent.

[24:18]

And yet they are intimately working as one body. I think that's the same idea. But in the case of this, there's no bound. In the case of our body, this is one kind of a body, so there's some boundary. Does that make sense to you? Okay. There he goes. the ancient Buddha, how it starts out. Another person is the ancient Buddha who said these four statements. So that ancient Buddha is not particular person. So maybe this is ancient Buddha, probably. I heard one time your teacher talk about the self, that it's only the self. Yes, Uchamarochi referred to this reality when he said self, that is only the self.

[25:27]

There's no others within this network. This network is itself, the self. Then next paragraph, he quote sayings of one Zen master. In ancient times, there was a monk who asked a worthy when hundreds, thousands, millions of things come all at once, what should I do? The ancient Wazi said, do not try to put them under your control. I'm sorry, this is not a literal translation. This is two Wazi. In Chinese, only three characters. before that, this person, this ancient wozi is, I don't check the Chinese pronunciation, but his name is Hoju.

[26:40]

It's said Sho or Sho. ho ju shou wo shou who probably is the name of the temple he lived. And there's only one Chinese character for his name. This is a kind of a common practice in China. The final part of names is actual personal name. In my case, Shouhaku. I think still in Rinzai Monastery, people are called with this final word, in my case, Haku. But anyway, so this person is not so well known. But he is a disciple of Rinji or Rinzai. So he is a disciple of the Master Rinzai.

[27:52]

The question is all different things, millions of things happening at the same time and come to us. What shall we do? And often these things happening give us a difficulty, a problem. When it's joyful or enjoyable, we don't need to worry about it. But when we are asking what shall we do, we usually think that is a problem. How can we deal with it? Actually, this is not some particular situation, but actually every day, all the time, all those millions of things are happening. around us, not only outside, but even inside of ourselves, all those millions of things are happening.

[29:00]

And what shall we do about this? That means everything is impermanent. So everything is moving and changing, including myself. So we have to also move together. It's not possible even I sit in the Zen dog without moving, still we are moving. Even we are sitting without moving, still the entire earth is moving. So even when we sit still, we are moving. And everything in our body, billions of cells, are also moving and working. So that is reality of impermanence, and things are always moving and changing. Then this person, Hojo Osho, said, maku kan tan.

[30:06]

Only three words. I'm sorry, this ta. Ma ku is not, and I translate this kan as control, and ta is others. So don't control those things happening. And this word kan, actually not only one, but this expression, ma ku kan, appeared in Fukanzazengi. In the beginning, when Dogen described how to sit, it said, let go of all associations and put all affairs aside. Do not think of either good or evil.

[31:11]

Do not be concerned with their right or wrong. Either right or wrong. This do not be concerned with either right or wrong is maku kan ze hi. Ze and hi is right and wrong. So this maku kan In other words, we let go of thought and we don't think of whether good or bad, evil or right or wrong. This opening the hand is, I think that this expression means And this KAN, for example, is like a control or deal with it.

[32:19]

You know, the control tower at the airport in Japanese is KANSEITO. So in that tower, people control everything in the airport. That is how this KAN means. We try to control everything and put them in order desirable to me. Right? That is what KAN means. And what KAN means, don't do that. Open your hand. Is it possible? Anyway, Dogen Zenji likes this expression. So, next paragraph is Dogen's comment on this expression. Mark, come, please. Is it a meaning, or is it a state?

[33:26]

Which? Not controllable. he discussed about whether this is a recommendation or the statement in the next paragraph. So please read next paragraph. What he meant is let them come as they do. Do not try to move them in any way. All things that come are themselves Buddha Dharma. They are not objects. We should not grasp this saying as a wonderful admonition. We should understand that this saying expresses the true reality. So not admonition or not recommendation, but this is a statement. That means anyway we cannot control, so we don't control.

[34:31]

No matter how hard we try, we cannot control them, because we are part of it. So this expression, makkanta, do not control them, is, I think, the same thing that in Genjōkō and Dōgen, we convey ourselves toward many other things, because things are things, billions of things happening. and try to carry out practice realization is delusion. But myriad things come to the self and allow the self to carry out practice enlightenment. That is realization. Fat dog is saying here is the same thing.

[35:36]

We control this network. But we are living together and work together with all things happening within this universe. Please. So the difference between a recommendation and a statement is very important. Because as a recommendation, Don't try to control things sounds what they could be criticized as being passive and foolish. Yeah, do nothing. But the control tower has to control it. It's a good thing that they control it. But as a statement, that's different. So is... conveying oneself forward to experience every thing. That's not a recommendation to not do that. Right. But if we do that, that is a delusion.

[36:37]

You know, we cannot, and yet we do. That is, according to Dogen, that is delusion. And yet later, not in Genjo Koan, in Genjo Koan that is the meaning, but later, for example, in Shobo Genzo Daigo, Daigo's great realization, he said, we need to return to delusion. So this active or conveying ourselves to many other things is also important when we understand that it is not possible not to control them but to study them. And also to take care of things. You know, that is what the Dharma eye means. Among those five eyes, I just talked. Yes, I have known.

[37:44]

In order to, as Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, in order to help other people, we need to make discrimination or discernment or distinction and knowing what is the real cause of the problem the person has, because each and every person has different cause and conditions. So we need to convey ourselves to the situation and try to find what is really happening. That is in Dogen's definition in Genjo Koan, that is delusion. But we need to return to delusion. That means after we truly understand that is delusion, so we open our hand or and we really see we are part of it. then with this basic or fundamental attitude, then we can see how these all billiard things are moving and how that influences our life in a positive or negative way.

[39:03]

So return to delusion is very important. Please. Roshi, do you see a difference between the word mood and the word control? Mood and control. So in this case, move means move in the way we wish or we want. So I think in this case, the same thing. For example, you know, there is a story about Fox and Baizhan or Hyakujo. about if the great personal practice falls into cause and effect or not. And the previous Hyakujo, if such a person, such a person of great practice does not fall into causality, then the person falls into the realm of animal as a wild fox.

[40:11]

And that person asked the present Hyakujo, could you say something or could you say a pivotal word to allow that person to say from the realm of animal. And the Hyakujo said, what did he say? In Inga Rekinen, cause and result or causality is clear, obvious, as it is, something like that. When Dogen talks about this story with Ejo in Zuimonki, he said, Fudo Inga. In ga is cause and result. Fudo is not move. So here he used the same word with the same meaning.

[41:18]

Don't move cause and result means... We know causality or cause and result is working, but we don't see all the causes and all the result, but we kind of pick up. desirable cause and desirable result for example when we think we need to be healthy then we do some exercise And so the exercise is a cause of becoming healthy. It is a cause and result in our wish, and that is okay. But there are many other causes and results. If we jog on the street and if we are not careful because of jogging for becoming healthy, we might be hit by the car.

[42:26]

have a serious injury. So, but in even that case, the cause and result is working. But somehow in our mind, we only take, you know, cause and result as I wish. That is how we move cause and result. We take out the undesirable cause and result, only think, if I do this, I will get that thing. That cause and result is very clear to me, but there's many other things. connection of cause and result and conditions, but we usually move the cause and result in the way it's good for me. So this move is the same meaning.

[43:31]

Please. What was it that current Hyakujo said? In... What he said? He said... The first, the past Hyakujo said Furaku Inga. And the second, the current Hyakujo said Fumai Inga. What does Fumai mean? Does someone know the English translation? I thought it was someone who realized that the way is not dominated by cause and effect, but should not ignore cause and effect. Yeah, this may means dark or being dark. It's not blind to cause and effect. Right, right, blind. So such a person of great practice does not blind in cause and result.

[44:40]

Pardon? I read it once as observe. Observe, cause and effect. Yeah. Okay, please. So I just want to clarify a little bit more about the direct to delusion. So carrying the self forward and approaching the myriad things, controlling the myriad things, the delusion part, and when the myriad things come forth and verify the self, that's then a muddle part. Mm-hmm. So there can be some kind of embodied experience of this, some realization of this. And then, but still, you're a conditioned being. So then you see delusion as simply being the conditions of the moment. Yeah, but that delusive or possibly mistaken way of viewing things and understanding is the only tool we can use. to understand and to help others.

[45:48]

There's nothing available for us. So it's a vehicle for discernment. Yeah. So we need to understand, we need to know there might be a mistake. Whatever idea or skillful means we can offer, because we are not Buddha, so that might be a mistake or might cause another problem. And yet we cannot stop doing that as a vow. Please, yeah. But you used the expression, to take care of things, to study things and to take care of things. Right. So there are times when we have to act in delusion, or maybe in sink delusion, and then we don't make a mistake. Yeah, so we are both sattvas living within the three realms, three worlds. And yet we want to, you know, help others as a voice of our vows. So we should not think I'm always right.

[46:52]

I'm absolutely right. There's some possibility, even though I do my best, and yet there might be some problems caused by my action to help others. I think that is important. And that is another meaning of repentance. Just wait until we think that we must be right in order to... I mean, we have to not know that. Because many other things are happening already, so we have to do something. That is about vow and repentance. We do our best, but there's some possibility of mistaken, or actually we do mistaken, or... one thing helpful to this person might be harmful to other people. So there's always uncertainty. So we need to be aware of incompleteness, imperfection of our activities, even though this is for the sake of others.

[48:05]

then we need to make repentance. So when we have vowed, we have to practice repentance at the same time. Please. So this paragraph of Dukkhan has sort of become my koan and I'm generally in conflict with it. It sounds really beautiful and so wonderful to to embrace it. However, it was written in the 1200s. In today's world, those of us that live outside a temple need to make a living. And it's really difficult to live by this, by allowing things to come to you, because you're expected to do things, to make a living.

[49:11]

Yes. So how does it feel to you? today running a couple of your own? I think even though Dogen and his assembly lived in a mountain, in a small monastery, that situation is not so different from ours. Even Dogen had to deal with the worldly politics and economies. and how to learn the temple, he had to negotiate a relation with the farmers around him. So it's not so different, but how can I say? This is the teaching, and that kind of concrete way they manage their lives in that age, in that monastery, is not recorded.

[50:18]

So it's not available for us as information. So these are the teachings. and philosophy teaching and practice that they think this is helpful for us and others and in the world to live in a healthy way. So we need to be creative. We cannot just take this as a perfectly right teaching and yet this doesn't help us. So we have to be really creative. In my case, I was born and trained in Japan and study and practice this kind of teaching in Japan and when I came to this country, you know, it's very different. So I cannot continue what has been practiced in Japan.

[51:21]

So And yet, I think, within our struggle with this reality, if we are Bodhisattva or a Dogen student or a Buddha student, how we can keep this attitude in dealing with those many different things in the world? Okay, please. It seems to me, I mean, based on what I've read or studied, that you could look at delusion and enlightenment as two sides of the same coin. That you could even say that enlightenment leads delusion, delusion leads enlightenment. I mean, it's the reality of things. We're in a non-dualistic way of looking at reality. In a non-dualistic way, you can't have enlightenment as good and delusion as that. Delusion is our life.

[52:24]

I mean, delusion has a very bad sound for us, and maybe it is bad also, but it is our life. Okay. Yeah, the reason under enlightenment one is a very basic teaching of Mahayana Buddhism. Well, we need to go further. So this statement of the Master, Makkanta, according to Dogen, is no matter how hard we try, we cannot control them, so we don't control them. This is the same logic as, you know, nothing can be grasped, so we don't grasp, we open our hand. Next, here's another quote. An ancient Buddha said, mountains, rivers, the great earth, and human beings are born together.

[53:33]

The Buddhas of the three times and human beings have always been practicing together. This is a quote, but we don't know, again, we don't know who is this ancient Buddha. And next paragraph is Dogen's comment on this thing. Paragraph 11 is about the first half of this saying. So the saying is, mountains, rivers, the great earth, and human beings are born together. And Dogen comments on this, however... Even if, page 11, however, even if we look at the mountains, rivers, and great earth, when a person is born, it does not seem that another mountain, river, or great earth is born on top of the mountains, rivers, and great earth that existed.

[54:48]

However, the saying of the ancients should not be in vain. How should we understand this? Because we should not put this aside even if we don't understand. Without faith, we should understand this. We should inquire into this. Since this has been already uttered by the ancient, we should listen to it. When we listen to this saying, we also should understand it. So even though this ancient Buddha, we don't know who he is, no person he is, said mountains, rivers, and great earth are born together with this person. But when we see someone is born, it doesn't seem, you know, that another layers of mountain, rivers, and grids are born with that baby. So what this means? And, you know, from, I think from here, this saying of Dogen, our ancient Buddha,

[56:03]

Uchiyama Roshi said exactly the same thing. You have something to say? Well, in Uchiyama Roshi, in one of his books, I think he said that his idea was when a person is born, they bring the whole world with them, and when they die, they take the whole world with them. In this book. Yeah. Yeah, this is How to Cook Yourself. I'm happy, you know, they changed the title of this book. Before this was something like, from the Zen kitchen to enlightenment. I hate that. But before that, the title Tom Light made was Refining Your Life. That is another expression of Chiamaroshi. When I went back to Kyoto from Massachusetts, Ucham Roshi encouraged me to work on translation, wisdom, right?

[57:15]

And the first work we did together was this book. And I recommended him to title this book as A Cookbook of Life. because that is more literal. The original title in Japanese is Jinsei Ryori no Hon. Jinsei is human life and Ryori is cooking, and hoi is book. So book of human life, cooking human life. So cookbook of life, I think is a good title. But Tom Wright didn't like it. He said because English word cook or cooking doesn't have deep meaning.

[58:21]

That is the problem. But this Japanese word, ryori, has a good meaning. This ryo means material or ingredient. The material we use for cooking. And this ri means principle. So ryori means principle. using the material available and transform it based on or following the principle. That is what ryori means. So the material, in the case of human life, this is the material. These five scandals are the material. How to cook this? How to make this? in a delicious, nutritious, healthy food is about.

[59:28]

So to me, you know, how to cook your life makes more sense. So I like this title better than From Zen Kitchen to Enlightenment. That is very... Anyway, part of this book, Dogen, not Dogen, but Uchiyama Roshi said, we are born together with this entire world, and we live together with this world, and when we die, this entire world dies with me. That is the same thing with what this Dogen and this ancient Buddha is saying. what Uchimaru said is, in page 41, said, as I mentioned in the opening chapter, the common notion of birth, birth being born, is that we arrive on the stage of an already existing world of human beings.

[60:48]

who communicate with one another and that one more member has been added to the repertory company. By this same sort of reasoning, dying is seen to be nothing more than leaving the stage of humanity. he wrote a diagram, this kind of a common idea of our life, that this world is like a stage And one time we are born within this stage and live and do something, some performance, and after a certain time we get out of this stage. And this stage is always there, but we appear, stay for a while, and disappear.

[61:52]

I think this is a very common idea or image of our life. This world is there already. But Uchiyama Roshi is against this common idea. And in the page 43, he says, When you are born, Your world is born with you. And when you die, so dies your entire world. Your true self includes the entire world you live in. So what he is saying is exactly the same as Dogen is saying in Yuibutsu Yobutsu. world live in. And in this world there is no possibility of exchange.

[62:55]

Despite the fact that we possess a mind capable of discriminating as shown in Diagram 2 and 3, even though we are able to communicate with each other in a general sense through language, this does not mean that the true or whole self lives only inside this world conceived in our head. So he said this is a creation or produced in our mind. As our actual life experience, this world is born and he wrote, you know, circle and the person. This entire world is his own self. I think Fat Dogen is saying, and Fat Dogen Uchamurashi is saying in this chapter, in this book, is the same thing.

[64:02]

And recently, maybe last month, I received an email by someone who likes Ujjamaa Roshi's teachings very much. And he said, this book and Opening the Hand of Thought are two most important books for the person. But the person said, I have one question or confusion about this book. description, this saying of Ujjamaa. If entire world is born when I was born in my world and we live together with entire world and when we die, this entire world also die together with me. If so, you know, there is my world another person's world, and each person has its own world. That means there are two, if we have billions of people, there are billions of worlds.

[65:11]

How, if so, it seems like very separate. My world is only my own, and another person's world is the person's own world. So it seems we are each very separate. We are living in a separate, different world. That was the question from that person. And I think that is a good question. So we have to think what this means. And I think what he's talking when he talks about this way of doing things is made in our mind. And on this stage, something valuable and something not valuable, and usually something valuable is like money or wealth and fame or status or those things.

[66:23]

There's some fixed system of value. And we have to... get in and follow that value. But what Uchamurase is saying is that kind of value system is man-made thing. So when he discuss about this type of world, that is production of our mind. And when he said this... type. This is actual relation with all beings, with the self. But if we make this a kind of idea, then there is separation. That is the problem. So we need to understand this is the world of actual life experience. This is not another kind of world view.

[67:30]

As our actual life experience, I was born and I have been living for 60 some years. And because I know that even though my parents passed away, I'm still here, and this world still continues. So I'm pretty sure before I was born, this world was here. And there's a history. When we study the history, we understand what happened in the past. But those are the knowledge that we study and that we understand, and that makes sense. So we think that is correct, but that past, before I was born, is something I cannot really experience.

[68:40]

I'm not sure even after my death these people continue to live. But the life, the world after my death is something I cannot experience. So other knowledge or thought, we think that is correct. I have no argument about that. But that is not the life or the world we can really experience as my world. But when we live within this lifetime, before, between birth and death, I study things about the past, so I understand that and I agree with it. So I don't neglect the knowledge we studied, but we also understand that is already gone. That is not my personal direct experience.

[69:46]

So this world where the world that is born with me and the world that is die with me is in Buddhist term, you know, there are six sense organs. and six objects of sense organs, and six consciousnesses. We call this 18 Dharma Darts. Sense organs, object, and consciousness. In this case, Dharma Darts means elements, 18 elements of our life. But this Dharma Darts, Darts also means world. Dharma that can translate as Dharma world. And this is entirety of our life according to Buddhism.

[70:51]

So when Uchiyama Roshi is talking about the life or the world born with me and die with me is this 18 elements I think. And within this world, you know, everything there as my object or my sense organs. And we create some consciousnesses and within the sixth, not the sixth, the fifth skanda, that is our thinking or consciousness, we create the world view. depending upon what kind of information we receive from the object, we create the world view. And this is one type of the world view we create, and this is very common within the world.

[71:55]

We share the same understanding, but still this is a production of our mind through our experiences. And this entire world, Dharma Dats, is born with me and I with me. You know, for example, you know, we say this word, world, it was like, you know, when I lived in San Francisco, there's a kind of exhibition entitled The World of Ansel Adams, the photographer. The World of Ansel Adams. When Ansel Adams lived, he really lived in that world. And he took photos. That is the world he views.

[72:58]

But the world he lived is dead with him. But we can appreciate his world through his work. but his world is already gone. So when Uchiyama Roshi is talking, not only Uchiyama Roshi, but Buddha or Dogen talks about this world that is born with me and die with me is not some kind of an objective world in which we are living together, but that is our world. I think that is important to make clear what they are talking about. So, as I thought, I agree, you know, not this situation, I mean structure, but we are living and sharing the life together with all beings.

[74:04]

But the way I experience, the way I feel, the way I view is my own. And I think I am responsible whether this world is a healthy world or in good order. or disordered. It's up to me about this world we are living in. Each one of us is living. But these worlds of each person are completely permeate each other. So we think we are living together within one world. And I don't disagree about that idea or thinking.

[75:08]

But when we think about the self and the world in terms of Buddhist teaching, they are talking about this world. Do you have anything to say? OK. So in the diagram, there's the skandhas and the sense objects and then the consciousness, so there's that little world. Yeah, six sense organs, eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind, and object of six sense organs. color, sound, taste, smell, touch, and object or mind, and consciousness caused by the encountering of these. And what Dogen is talking about is these are not separate subject and object, but these are working together as one. That is what he has been talking in this Yoibetsu Yobutsu. Okay.

[76:13]

Continue. Please. I think I understand. I think I understand. My world is less conscious. I create. I create. This world is created when I'm born. Where's the meeting place? I have the world. You have your world. Didn't you say it's invisible? So a bell rings. I hear it. I experience it. You experience it. Your experience is different from my experience. But this is the point of intermingling. Yeah, there is intermingling or connection or interactions. I think so. For example, if my teacher was alive, I am part of his life, his world. as his disciple. But when Uchimaru passed away, the shouhaku that was his disciple in his world passed away with him.

[77:22]

But within my world, he's still here as my teacher. Does it make sense? Yeah. So this is about Dharma transmission also. I was part of his life as a disciple and we share the same understanding and practice and way of life, attitude toward life. then his world and my world is completely different world. That is what in Dogen 4, what do you call, form is form, emptiness is emptiness. You know, his world and my world is completely different world, and yet we are actually living together.

[78:24]

I was part of his world and he is part of my world still. So this is how this strange thing called Dharma is transmitted even though there is nothing to transmit. And yet somehow this dharma is transmitted. That's why it is called the wondrous dharma. Wondrous man means we cannot grasp. Somehow, wondrously, beyond thinking, that word is transmitted. Okay. Please. I don't know if we believe that our world is real. That's delusion. Our belief can be delusion. But that is reality that we are living with delusion.

[79:26]

I think. Even when we're aware that we're deluded, we cannot leave that delusion. We're just aware of it. So how come we return to it? How come we return to? You said earlier that in order to help people, we have to return. To delusion? To delusion, but actually we haven't left delusion. Because... That is where we live. That is the only world we can live together with all beings. So because of bodhisattva vow, we cannot escape from that world. So we have to live with delusion. Yes, but we don't even become aware of it. Yes, even though I said return to, actually there's no aparting and returning. We are always there.

[80:32]

You have something? Yeah, in his poem about... Right. I think that's okay. Well, next paragraph is his answer to this question, but his answer is not so understandable to me at least. Basically he said this because we don't know. Paragraph 12. The way we understand this is as follows. when we inquire what this life is like from the side of this person who was born, who has clarified the beginning and the end of this life.

[81:37]

Although we don't know either the end or the beginning, we have been born. This is simply the same as even though we don't know the edge of the mountains, rivers and the great earth, we see where we are and we walk this place. Do not be sorry thinking that the mountains, rivers and the great earth are not like our birth. We should clearly understand that the ancients said that the mountains, rivers and the great earth are all equally our lives. I understand this conclusion, but I understand why. He just said, we don't see the beginning and the end. That's why this world is born with us.

[82:43]

To me, there's something missing. Please. So to me this area, and also what J.H.R.S. is saying about the whole world being born, when a person is born, is essentially related to the concept of time being. Yes. You know, that at each instant all things are born, the mountains are born, the people are born, the sun is born, right? And so at the next instant that's all died also. Yeah, it's impermanence. So each moment everything is born, staying, changing and perishing in each moment. That is Buddhist understanding of impermanence. So in each moment we are in the new world with new life. Yes.

[83:44]

But what Dogen says here is we don't know the beginning and end. And that is true, but what is the connection between this we don't know but we are born and we are living here and we walk here and this world is born with me? I don't see the exact connection. But possibly this means this world is beyond our understanding, beyond our viewing, beyond our thinking. But at least we are living here and now as my world, even though before that we cannot know what happened. And after this, we don't know what will happen. You know, as knowledge, we know the past, things happened in the past.

[84:50]

And I think for now, as knowledge, we know that this universe begins with something called Big Bang. And it is, I don't know what Big Bang means, but it said before Big Bang, there's no time and space. Time and space is created, produced at the moment of Big Bang. But I don't think that is a beginning of anything, of everything. There must be cause and condition that Big Bang happened. And because we are inside of this system, there's no way to know So even though we know about this planet, we know more than Dogen. He said he didn't know the edge of mountains and rivers, but we know. So our world view is much, much larger, but still there's a limit.

[85:54]

I don't think we can ever know why Big Bang happened. There must be some cause and conditions. and we don't know how this world ends. But still, you know, we are living within this world, or this universe, even though why it happened, how, why and how it happened, and we don't know how it ends. Still, this is my world. So, what Dogen is saying is we should know the limitation of our knowledge and understanding. That is my understanding. So my understanding is limited. So if you have your own understanding, that's nice. Please? What does no origination have to do with what we're talking about?

[86:57]

Pardon me? No origination? No origination. No origination? In the heart system, no origination? No origination. Which part of the heart, etc.? No origination. No birth. [...] no birth, no death, or no arising and no perishing. That is because we are like a bubble, a bubble in the water. It comes and goes, but actually there's no such thing as a bubble, which is born and which will die. Nothing is born, nothing dies.

[87:57]

So it's not about where they come from. Okay? Is that the answer to your question? Good. Please. Is the relation between a bubble and no bubble or the relation between the world arises and ceases with me versus the world, there was a world before me and I entered the stage. Is that the same, those two examples are both examples of the diagram you used, the picture of the old lady and the young lady, that is simultaneously the same thing is exactly opposite. I think so. That is the painting. I think I have the painting.

[89:01]

I always carry this one. This is the one. You know, old lady and young lady, this is exactly one. So old lady and young lady are exactly the same thing. And yet, when we see young lady, old lady disappeared. And when we see old lady, young lady disappeared. So these old lady and young lady never meet each other. To me, you know, this explains what Dogen is saying. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form, and emptiness is emptiness, and form is form. So emptiness and form are exactly the same thing, therefore they never meet each other. And this is the same as Buddha nature and karmic nature.

[90:02]

These, you know, our five skandhas become Mara and also become Avalokiteshvara. So Mara and Avalokiteshvara, because they are exactly the same thing, they never meet each other. Each of them are 100%. That is what Dogen says, form is form. There's no emptiness. And yet emptiness is already there and it is hidden. So we see young lady already is hidden and yet they are completely there. Do you understand that relation? So same as delusion and realization. They are exactly the same thing, but completely different. So therefore, they never meet each other. When we are deluded, we are 100% deluded human beings, and this five scandals is completely mara.

[91:11]

And yet the same thing can be Prajna and Avalokiteshvara. But Mara never disappeared. It's still there, but it's hidden. So then in the discernment of whether you're looking at the old woman or the drunk woman, is the thing that makes the difference in terms of your insight or perspective? Insight, perspective, wisdom. and also understanding through teaching and also insight I not see as the object but I experience by letting go. When I grasp this me and try to satisfy this person's desire, then this five skandhas is mara.

[92:23]

But when I let go, even I let go, open our hand, things need to keep this five skandhas. It's naturally given as a gift. Right? We... somehow, I don't know why, there is air and we can breathe. That's why we can live. So it's a gift. Our water, our food is a thing. Somehow, You know, it's given as a gift. Everything is making offering and we receive offering. So we try to offer something to support others. So this is circulation, natural universal circulation. That is where we can live together with all beings. But when we are mana, we think all other things around me is the material I can use to make me happy.

[93:36]

I think that is a very slight difference, but that slight difference makes big difference, really. Please. It's similar to the passage about when hundreds and millions and thousands of things come, what should I do? This switch between seeing things as objects or as, what he says, everything Buddha, Buddha Dharma. So I think about that same phenomenon, it's called aspect perception, and that same way, thinking of everything. Yeah. Sawa Kiroshi said, when we are taking a bath, you know, this is Japanese bath, big bath. It's like a pool. I think, you know, because we have spring, hot spring in the Sahara. That is kind of bath. Even when we try to keep the water with me, it go out. But if push the water out, it come back. So there's no boundary.

[94:44]

But somehow within our mind we... make the boundary or wall between my territory and rest of the world and we calculate how much income and how much expenditure outgoing and when you know income is larger than outgoing we feel i'm safe my life life is successful but that That is a kind of illusion within this world. Conventional world, it works only within human world. Human conventional world. But we cannot save the air. Please? You mean the poem? Yes. Sure. How can I do that?

[95:47]

Actually, those poems are in Ehe Koroku. Volume 9. Volume 9 is a collection of 90 koan, and Dogen Zenji composed the verse of each koan. And this, I think this is number 25 in volume 9 of Ehekoyoku. Dogen didn't quote the sushi's poem, but I think in the footnote, we put sushi's poem also. OK. Please. It was five eyes. When you see those two aspects, that's basically discrimination, both sides. First to undermine. Yeah.

[96:51]

So is that then the dharma eye as opposed to the wisdom eye, which wouldn't see anything happen? I mean, would the wisdom eye not see anything change or just be... I think wisdom eye or prajna eye is a freedom from discrimination, I think. And dharma eye is put a gear into somewhere again, you know. When I talk about our design, I always use the analogy of driving a car. When we put the gear into neutral, then the engine is still moving, but the car doesn't move. That is what we do in our zazen. Our brain is still working.

[97:53]

That means our brain still produces thought, but discards and moves. That means we make determination not to do anything based on those thoughts. I think that is prajna-I. That means our zazen is prajna-I. So thought or discrimination is still there. But when we use Dharma Eye, we put the gear somewhere, but we know those discrimination is not really absolutely true, but somehow we can use as a tool or a device to help ourselves and others. So with the dog eye, looking at the picture, if I'm seeing the old lady, but I always know the young lady is there, that would be the dog?

[98:53]

I think so. Yeah, we see one at a time, but we know the other is already there. Okay, now it's already quarter to twelve. I hope I can finish this tomorrow morning.

[99:13]

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