Do you have any questions or comments? Please. I feel I've lived a long time, and I also was born in 1948. Oh, really? But concerning your vow, which is so important to me, it feels as if you're not choosing a vow, but the vow chose you of some way. There's this vowing. It's not even an object. It's for me. It's more that I'm vowing to save all beings. I'm vowing. And I was wondering if you could speak to that. I think, I feel, I felt the same way. When I first read Uchiha Moroshi's book, my teacher's book, I was 17. I knew nothing about Zen or Buddhism, but somehow I felt I was sucked into that way. I couldn't resist, even though I don't understand what is this.

[01:08]

And when I was ordained, when I was ordained, I was a university student, and I wanted to quit the school. But U Chiang Lo asked to encourage me to finish the school and come to Antaichi. So I went back to Komazawa University and after graduation I started to practice with my teacher. At that time my teacher asked me to study English and I'm not interested in studying English at all. That was early 70s. Many Westerners came to Kyoto to practice zazen, atantai, and Uchida Moroshi wanted to explain what the meaning of this very simple practice but he didn't speak any western language but he had some American students who could speak Japanese but he wanted to have

[02:32]

Some Japanese people who have knowledge about Buddhism and Zen could translate for him. That's why he asked a few of his disciples to go to English school. And even though I was not interested in English at all, I didn't speak English at all when I finished university, but somehow I couldn't say no. That was my problem. And actually, the English school in Osaka was run by one of Suzuki Roshi's students. What's his name? Graham Petty. So that was a connection between me and Suzuki Roshito Lineage. So, yeah, I felt, you know, this is not my desire.

[03:37]

This is not what I wanted. But somehow I was kind of led toward that direction. So vow is not something I make, my determination. But vow, I think I felt by, pulled by vow. Not my personal vow, but by Buddha's vow and by teacher's vow. Is this answer to your question? Breathe. Mm-hmm. My teacher retired from Antares when he was 63.

[04:38]

He was a physically very weak person. He lived with TB for 50 years. So he couldn't continue to be a teacher at the monastery. So he retired in 1975. At that time, he asked three of his disciples who went to the English school to come to the United States because there was one American woman who lived in Northampton, Massachusetts, visited Antigee. And she asked Ucham Ross to come. to America, but because he couldn't come, so he sent first one of my elder Dharma brother and who first stayed with that woman, but his practice was kind of too much for her. He didn't expect, you know, sit 15 minutes a period for 14 periods a day for five days.

[05:48]

That is a Sesshin Akantai. So in the beginning, probably the first day of the Sesshin, they had the lady escape from her house. LAUGHTER So he separated from that woman and started to live with several young Americans, so-called hippies, and a house in Northampton. And that is the origin of Pioneer Valley Zendo. And he sat with that group of people for three and a half years. And he started 100-day session with anti-age schedule, 14 hours a day. And after 30 days, his body was broken. So he returned.

[06:50]

But after his name was Shojo-san, before he went to Massachusetts, he stopped by at San Francisco Dream Center and visited Asahara and met Suzuki Roshi also. That was 1970. But after Shojo-san went back to Kyoto, the group continued to practice. So Uchiyama Roshi asked all the three of us to come join the group. And the first person who joined the group was Koshi-san. And Steve Yannick went to Massachusetts with that person one year before me and another person. And they thought to pay house rent each month is a kind of waste. So they wanted to buy a property and build a zendo in the woods, in the forest.

[08:00]

So they found a very cheap land. I mean, the owner of the land, the property, was interested in Zen and meditation practice. So she sold her property, one acre, $400 an acre. So we bought five or six acres. As I said, you know, only thing we had are trees. That's how we started. Okay. Please. First, you say, all my ancient twisted karma, from the beginning was greed, hate, and delusion, born of bodies, speech, and mind, I now fully abound.

[09:04]

What does abound mean? I don't know. Japanese or Chinese original is... ga-kon-issai-kai-san-ge, ba-abau is a translation of san-ge. And to me, whether it's a repentance or abau or atonement, whatever English word is the translation or equivalent of this Japanese or Chinese word san-ge. And Sangha is a very old practice from, I think, from the time of Buddha. So sangha is a Buddhist term, Buddhist technical term. But when Japanese people translate Christian Bible, they use Buddhist word sangha as an equivalent of Christian word repentance.

[10:10]

That is a kind of a source of the confusion. So I use the word repentance as a translation of sangha. But the meaning is not a Christian dependence. The meaning of Buddhist practice of Sangha is, you know, when we became a Buddhist in India to become a monk, home-leavers, they received the Vinaya precept, and lay Buddhists received five precepts. and twice a month the night evening of full moon and new moon days they had a kind of gathering and the leader of the sangha recite all those the precept and when someone thought they did something, some mistakes against those precepts, they had to speak up.

[11:19]

That is the origin or meaning of sangha. That means we receive the precept, then we take a vow to follow the precept, and yet sometimes Intentionally or not intentionally, we make many different kinds of mistakes. This making mistake is against my intention or my vow. So by making repentance, we return to the right track. That is the meaning of repentance as a Buddhist practice. So I'm not sure if this English word avow or atonement or repent or repentance can convey that meaning. So in the book Living by Vow, I try to explain the original meaning. with whatever translation we use in English.

[12:24]

So I don't really know what avow means. I think as the English word avow means to, how can I say, accept, you know, I did such and such for some deed. Not... Pardon? Promise. Promise not to do it again. Vow means promise, yeah. Making a pledge. A vow does not mean promise. It's the best, right? Acknowledge. Acknowledge. Acknowledge. Is that your question? Acknowledge, yeah, avow is acknowledge. Right? That's correct? But it's not only acknowledge.

[13:31]

In the case of sangha, we accept and speak up and renew our vow. and determine not to do the same mistake again. So just a vow is not enough, I think. Please? So my follow-up question was similar to Jacky's. And the question is then, what is a vow? Is it the training, the promise? Yes. If we understand the vow is a promise, it's a... It's a commitment and promise. But if we think we make commitment about to fulfill all those four vows, then we are strange. The vows are strange.

[14:33]

I don't think those vows are something we can accomplish. So these are really endless vows. There's no time we can free, accomplished, but that means we have no goal. If we think there's no, there's some time, there's a goal we can reach to fulfill all those four bodhisattva vows, I think we have kind of a fantasy. It's like, to me, it's like a ladling of water from the ocean, one by one, to dry up the ocean. Because beings are numberless. And the regions are inexhaustible. So there's no time we can completely drain the ocean up.

[15:36]

But somehow we, as a practice, water from the ocean one by one at the moment. And we need to do it endlessly. So our commitment is keep this practice moment by moment, day after day, in each situation, try to do things based on being pulled by this vow. So Sakiroshi said, Sakiroshi, my teacher's teacher, said, we are not practice to attain enlightenment. or awakening. But we are practiced being pulled around by enlightenment. Being dragged around by enlightenment. By enlightenment. Enlightenment. So enlightenment is something we can attain or accomplish.

[16:37]

I think vow is the same. But we are pulled by our bodhisattva vows. and practice day after day, moment by moment. Okay, please. I have another question about that man, about the man. It's, if we're not to strive for personal liberation, but to help others, how can we lead someone to a place we don't know? That's a good question. Uchiyo Moro said, you know, we make mistakes because of our delusion or some mistaken understanding. Those mistakes we have done. is capital money, the money to fund to open the business. So those unwholesome karma we have done before is...

[17:44]

capital fund to open business as a Bodhisattva. That means because we made mistakes and somehow when we know how to fix it or how to be free from it, how to get out of that difficult condition, then we can help others. So in order to help others, we need to make mistakes. Otherwise, we don't know how to get out of, you know, being free from mistakes. But in order to do so, we have to be free from mistakes. That means we have to learn through making mistakes how to fix the mistake. And it's not the matter of steps. First, we make a mistake. Then we find a method to fix the mistakes. Then we take a vow and help others.

[18:49]

But those three should be each moment. That is our path, I think. So we still make mistakes. And we try to find a way how to fix the mistake, how to change the situation made by my mistake. then we learn something. Then when we find someone is in the same situation, same difficult situation, then we can help that person in that situation. So our process of practice, of making mistakes, fixing my own mistake, and helping others at the same time, Does that make sense? Okay.

[19:52]

Please. I appreciate you bringing the jacket, you know. And I've been thinking that I understand the idea of bodhisattva well, but in my mind I feel like there's not so much separation or difference between buddha and bodhisattva. So I wonder why or how you want to separate them. Are you going to stay for Genzoe? Yes. That's one of the very important points of Vibhutsu Yobutsu. Is Bodhisattva's and Buddha's same or different? That is... Well, I can tell you the answer. Bogen said both Buddha's and Bodhisattva's are the same.

[20:54]

And another chapter of Shobogen, he said different. Thank you for your talk. You said that, I think you said that there's a relationship between the Jatakatvils and Sambolakaya. You could say more about that. Well, I don't think there's a direct relation between Jatakatyus and the Sambhogakaya. Sambhogakaya, the idea or concept of Sambhogakaya was made in Mahayana Buddhism. Originally, before Mahayana, there are two bodies, or two kayas. One is nalupakaya, that means physical body, and dharmakaya. Right after Shakyamuni died, they started to think, what is Buddha?

[22:00]

And even though Shakyamuni as a person died, his enlightenment, awakening, is still there in the form of his teaching. His teaching is Dharma. So originally there are Rupa Kaya and Dharma Kaya. But in Mahayana, there is, people started to think, not only in this world, in this world, after Shakyamuni died, passed away, until Maitreya Buddha appeared, there's no Buddha. But Mahayana Buddhists started to think, this is not only the world. There are many worlds within this universe, and in each world there must be Buddha. And those Buddhas, like Amitabha, and many other Buddhas, are called Sambhogakaya.

[23:04]

That means they became Buddha as a result of many practices within many lifetimes. And that idea, I think, came from that Not only Jataka, but that story, Sumedha, took about to become Buddha. And after many lifetimes, he became Shakyamuni. So the idea of Sambhogakaya and this story, I think, is connected. At least one of the sources of that idea of Sambhogakaya. That is my guess, so don't trust me. There's no evidence. Okay, please. Can we take the vow to save all beings? We don't like all beings. Well, what is like and dislike?

[24:07]

Like? That means you save only people you like. Or just to take the vow. I don't know if I'm saving anyone, but just to take the vow. Sometimes I feel like the vow is too much because my preference is too strong and anger comes up when my preference is challenged. Well, you know, those four Bodhisattva vows, the first of them is being sunambulist without to save or free them. But as I said, those four vows are really endless vows. There's no time we can accomplish. But to walk the path of Bodhisattva, we need to make a personal vow. That is something we can actually achieve or fulfill within this lifetime with this conditioned body and mind.

[25:19]

So there's no time we can save all beings. To me it's very difficult even to help my children. Sometimes I feel it's too much. to have responsibility to raise children as good people. And I don't feel I can do the same thing for other people's children. So our ability is really conditioned. And I also have a like and dislike. And also my ability has a limitation. You know, what I can offer To help others is only my experience as a Zen practitioner and my understanding of Dharma. That is the only thing I can do. My vow is to share my experience, Zazen experience, and my knowledge I studied in Japan, share them with American people, not only American, but Western people.

[26:43]

That is the only thing I can do with this conditioned body and mind. So I try to do my best. But my work is not so extensive, so I have to, again, I have to make repentance. So because our ability is repentance and our practice is incomplete, we need to be aware of incompleteness. And that is repentance, one of the meanings of repentance. So it's a kind of natural, you want to help people you like, and you don't want to help people you don't like. But you need to aware that limitation.

[27:50]

If you have that limitation and you have a heart of repentance, then that is part of endless power. Does it make sense? Please. Please. Do I say we? Being some numbers, we vow, I vow. I think I. But I think I means we. Means not only me. I'm sorry. Please. What if the nature of impermanence and the endless nature of existence is inter-acted by beings or numbers?

[29:00]

Delusions are inexhaustible. So, considering the fact that we need to feel in every moment that Mm-hmm. [...] Because of the numberless, the delusions, right? The numberless and the exhaustible existence doesn't mean that all of the beings see it's moving in every breath. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How would you reflect on that? Well, I think that is the only thing we can do, moment by moment.

[30:13]

We try to live being with all beings, walk together with all beings, moment by moment. And when I feel I isolate myself from other beings, I try to open up. by letting go of my self-centered idea and keep walking. I think that is only kind of an actual way we can walk, I think. Thank you. Please. The second vow is delusions are inexhaustible. I'd love to end them. I mean, could end them. What would you tell me to understand that? End? End. Ah. The original Chinese or Japanese sentence or vow is bun no mu jin se gan dan.

[31:21]

Done literally means cut off. But whenever we cut off, it's sprout again. So we have to cut off each moment. So this is also endless. I think. Please. I was thinking about this question back here about sailing. And I myself have some difficulty with sailing, maybe even breathing. I was thinking, Buddha's practice brought him to awakening. And he said, I awake with all beings. And I, in myself, sometimes I say, I vow to awaken with all beings. But I wonder, as a translator, if that actually fits. You know, I feel like that I could do.

[32:24]

But I wonder if that could fit in there or if I'm just going on my own track here to make myself uncomfortable. I think the origin of that idea that we are awake with all beings came from... I think this is Zen expression. I think it's Zen expression because I don't know the origin in the sutras. But when Buddha awakened, when he was sitting under the Bodhi tree, Buddha said, the mountains, rivers, and great earth awakened at the same time simultaneously with me. That is the origin. And when Dogen Zenji described his zazen in Jiju Zanmai, he said, when we sit within this upright posture, this praying Buddha mudra, this entire universe, and each and every being in the universe become enlightened simultaneously.

[33:40]

So that is, I think, the source of the idea we awake with all beings. But when we are deluded, we are deluded with all beings. Does the actual translation say? Oh, the four bodhisattva bhauts, sujo, muhen, segan, do. Do actually means crossover. Do you know the river between samsara and nirvana? This shore of samsara and other shore of nirvana. And door means to cross over. That means Bodhisattva is like a boatman to help beings cross over this river and allow people to enter nirvana. So this door is this crossing over. And do is also used as a translation of paramita.

[34:47]

Paramita also means crossing over. So this means we vow to help other beings to cross over this river between samsara and nirvana. That's actually the meaning of whether save or free. Please. Mm-hmm. [...] I think it stays with me, but I need to be free from that to engage in what I'm doing right now. So it's kind of a back and forth.

[36:05]

Sometimes I'm free, sometimes I'm engaged with something, so I cannot be free, and I give up freedom to really focus on what I'm doing. So that is kind of an important point in Dogen's teachings. you know, in Shobo, Genzo, Daigo, or great awakening, or great realization, or great enlightenment, Dogen said, that's okay to have great enlightenment or realization, but we need to return to delusion to work within samsara. So we need to be free from enlightenment or awakening or freedom. to walk with all beings. Does it make sense? Maybe not.

[37:10]

She's asking if you have to move to another country to get free. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't understand your question. It's up to that condition. In my case, when my teacher said, you should go, I couldn't say no. So I came, but even if I stayed, even if I could say no and I stayed in Japan, I think I could do the same thing with the same spirit in different ways. So... Whether you stay or you go, you can do. Please. How do you translate the last line of the four vows? Butsudo, Mujo, Seiganjo. Literary translation into Buddha way. Butsudo is Buddha's way.

[38:21]

Mujo is unsurpassable or unsurpassable. Mujo means nothing beyond. So it's the highest. So, 仏道無常, 誓願 is vowed to, 常 is complete, or achieve, or accomplish, or one of the translations is realized. I always felt uncomfortable with the translation. I was involved with it. We came up with... To become buddha way is kind of strange to me also. In this case, Buddha way, this way, or Tao, means anatharasambodhi, so awakening. So Buddha's awakening is unsurpassable, and we vow to accomplish or realize it.

[39:29]

To become Buddha's awakening means kind of strange to me. Yeah, I think you really became it because I listed the meaning of the word. And that word can mean . So I think it might have been Richard Day. I'm not sure who it was, but I was a little distressed. Yeah, the Chinese word means to complete. or to accomplish, to be successful, and it can be to become also. But it's not a Buddhist term, Buddhist meaning, to become. So as a translation, I don't like to become so much. I think it was chosen because the idea of accomplishing, it seemed tolerated.

[40:31]

To become is the same, I think. I think, yeah. Because it's unsurpassable, there's no way we can accomplish. That is the meaning, actually, and yet we try. I think that is the meaning of this vow. So it's okay to use, like, to accomplish or achieve, because we know it's not possible. That is why our practice is really endless. Please. It's more clearly not possible and more clearly not goal in the way accomplished or achieved. It's kind of like I'm over here and I'm going to do ten steps and then I'll be over there. It seems less tangible and more like in the body.

[41:33]

Okay. Okay. That's fine. Please. Sometimes I hear jo and do. It seems like they're used interchangeably sometimes. I can't remember our vowels, but I think... Do and jo. Do or jo? Jo? Jo. There you go. Yeah. Butu, do, mu, jo, se, gan, jo. It's never be do. Okay? I'm studying Opening the Hand of Thought, and your teacher said that gain is delusion and watch is enlightenment. Can you say something more? That's a very famous teaching of, not my teacher, but that is Sarki Kodalosi's teaching.

[42:36]

That's a very famous expression. when we gain, there's something we want and we gain and we think this become my position to do in that way, to do things as something I want and when I get it, it become mine. In that case, if that is something that is possible, but if this is about enlightenment, that is a problem. But we commonly think that goal or object of our practice is gaining enlightenment. But what Sir Guruji is saying is if we practice with this desire to attain enlightenment, to get it and make it my own, then Sir Guruji said that is delusion.

[43:43]

But when we open our hand, that means we lose enlightenment. Lose enlightenment means become free from enlightenment. We don't practice to attain something, to get something, but we just practice. So we lose. That means we gain nothing. And this gaining nothing is Sawaki Roshi's translation to the modern Japanese from Dogen Zenji's expression, fukatoku, or mushotoku. Mushotoku also appears in the Heart Sutra, nothing to gain. Because as a reality, nothing to gain, I try not to gain. That is when we practice to gain something that is delusion. But when we open our hand and just practice without any expectation, that is what Dogen Zen meant when he said, just sitting or shikantadha.

[44:55]

So that expression, sakiroshi, is kind of a unique translation into modern Japanese of just sitting, shikantaza, just sit. Then we lose ourselves, actually. Losing ourselves means becoming free from our self-clinging. asked you what opening the hand of thought means two years ago? Yes, this is a young grasp. That was of importance. Yeah, yeah. That's why I, you know, made that kind of a strange English expression. You know, opening the hand of thought is my translation of Uchiyama Roshi's Japanese expression, omoi no tebanashi.

[45:58]

Omoi is thought, and te is hand, and hanasu is open. So this is very literal translation of Uchamuroshi's Japanese expression and more kind of common English letting go of thought is more common expression. But to me it's different. The thing of thought doesn't convey the meaning of what Uchimurushi is saying. So I tried to keep the very kind of a strange English expression, but no American liked that expression. You know, first I worked with Arthur Breverman. Arthur Breverman made some translation and wrote about Sawatiroshi and Uchimuroshi. First he saw this expression, opening the hand of thought.

[47:01]

He didn't like it. He said, this is not English. And the next person was Tom Wright. I... worked with Tom Wright on translating Opening the Hand of Thought. He didn't like that expression neither, so we tried to eliminate all that expression. The first American person who liked that expression was a person from Minneapolis, and she asked Tom to keep at least one chapter So we kept that opening the hand of thought only one section. And Jisho Warner, who edited the final manuscript, liked that expression, opening the hand of thought. That fight became the title of the book.

[48:04]

So probably if those two women didn't read the manuscript, the title of that might be different. And now people like it. It's kind of strange. Okay. Any other questions? Okay, thank you very much.

[48:31]

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