2010.08.12-serial.00134

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Good morning, everyone. This morning, we start the beginning of page 7. So far, Togen Renji discussed about the ascetics' thought, Buddha, that was the thought from Vassal Saints. whose name was Sozan. Here it says Gensho or Great Master Yuanquan of Kaohsiung. Sozan in Japanese. And in Chinese pronunciation, how?

[01:00]

Because I cannot really correctly pronounce Chinese, so let me use Japanese pronunciation. Sozan. And Sozan is the name of the mountain. And his personal name is Honja. and he is a disciple of Tōzan Ryōkai. Tōzan Ryōkai Nayosho is the founder of Chinese Sōtō school of Zen. In our lineage, Todan's disciple, Ungo Doyo, was in our lineage, Todan Ryokai Daiyosho, Ungo Doyo Daiyosho.

[02:12]

But this person, Todan Honjaku, was Ungo Doyo's dharma brother. The question and answer between this person, Sozen, and one of his monks, is what Dogen Zenji quotes here. So, once a monk asked the great master Yuan Feng, or Gensho, this is a honorific title, given by the emperor to this master. Yuan Chun, or Gensho in Japanese, or Kaoshan. Kaoshan is Sozan. So Mark's question is, in the received teachings, there is a saying,

[03:16]

The great ocean does not house a dead body, but the ocean. The master said, it contains the ten thousand beings. The monk said, then why doesn't it house a dead body? The master said, The monk said, if it contains the 10,000 things, why is it that someone whose breath has stopped doesn't belong to? The master said, it's not the merit of the 10,000 things to stop breathing. Dogenzen's interpretation and probably Tozan and his mind expressing might be really different.

[04:25]

So, now, first I talk about my understanding of what Tozan is saying. And it is not really clear, the problem. ocean, a great ocean, and dead body. And this teaching came from the Buddhist sutras. And last Saturday, in my dharma talk, I introduced that original sutra from Mahari Nikaya. I repeat only that part about the dead body and ocean.

[05:30]

This paritta is about the ocean, the virtue of ocean. And so Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha asked to the chief of Asura, which seems the people of Asura, In this paritta, the third is about this teaching. What Ashura said is, the great ocean does not carry a dead body. A corpse, if there is a dead body in it, the great ocean will quickly carry it to the shore.

[06:43]

and cast it onto the land. This is the third wonderful and marvelous quality of the ocean. When we see the ocean, we don't so often see the dead body floating on the ocean. We see the dead body on the beach. So this ocean has a function. get that dead body out of the ocean to keep it pure and clean. That is one of the qualities or virtues of the ocean according to this chief of Ashura. And Buddha said, there is Sangha has the same quality. What Buddha said is, just as the great ocean will not tolerate a dead body, a corpse, but quickly carry it to the shore and cast it onto the land.

[07:55]

Even so, the sangha, Buddhist sangha, the sangha will not tolerate within its ranks a person who is immoral, or bad character, of impure and suspicious conduct, secretive in his actions, not absolutely acceptable, but rather ashamed of it, not chaste, but pretending to be chaste, rotten to the core. lustful and of vile, v-i-l-e, vile behavior. In such a case, the sangha quickly assembles and expels such a person. Even if seated in the midst of the monk's assembly, yet he is far from the sangha, and the sangha is far from him.

[09:06]

This is the third wonderful and marvelous quality in this Dhamma and Supreme. This is Buddha's teaching about quality of Sangha. It's similar with the quality of the ocean. So this is about the precepts. And, you know, after Buddhist Sangha was formed when people came to Buddha to study and practice with Shakyamuni. Monks made many mistakes. So each time a monk made a mistake, Buddha said, don't do such a thing again. Those admonitions of Buddha to the person who made some mistakes. After Buddha's death, right after Buddha died, 500 arahants assembled and Ananda decided what he heard from Buddha as a teacher.

[10:21]

and that collection of Buddha's Dharma teachings became sutra. And another person, Mukali, one of the ten great disciples of the Buddha, memorized all those Buddha's admonitions when monks made mistakes. And all those 500 arahats, or elders, agreed. But Upali said certain times, certain months, with certain mistakes, then Buddha said, don't do it again. And if all 500 monks agreed, that was true. then those become Vinaya precepts.

[11:40]

And altogether there are 250 for male monks, and more, like 300 something for female monks. Those are the Vinaya precepts. And when someone wants to become a member of the monks or sangha, they have to receive those 250 or 350 precepts and take a vow that they keep, maintain those precepts. And among those more than 200 or 300 precepts, there are four That means, parazika means killing or death.

[12:49]

The dead body in the ocean came from that word, parazika. The first four most significant precepts are killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, four major precepts. And in the case of Vinaya precept, killing means killing a human form of life. It's not about killing a mosquito. If some member of the Sangha murders a person, At that time, each monk could build their own heritage just for three months during the Buddhist period.

[14:20]

This is before the Buddhist sangha monastery. A monk, in order to build a good heritage, he stole from the king's forest. So the king accused that monk. So the king complained to Buddha. Buddha said, monks should not do such a thing. So in this case, this steam has certain characteristics. beyond certain amount of value. I don't remember. But it's not the same. It is not biological. Still, there are certain rules. If amount, still, something more than certain value can be, or not can be, should be expressed.

[15:32]

or commands, every sexual relation is against the harajika. And about telling a lie or false speech, this is not false speech in general. But this is certainly one particular kind of speaking false speech. That is, the story is very One year, they had a drought or something, and people were starving. So people couldn't donate food to Buddhist monks during the drought period. So people and monks had a problem. They were always hungry and always starving. At the 13th Sambha, it's not together with the Buddha.

[16:40]

At the 13th Sambha, one monk had a good idea to visit. I think, if my memory is correct, the person is from a rich family. So the person said, if I visit my family and say that I am or we are enlightened person, So if you make donation to us, then you will receive a great merit. That kind of fortune. So they received a lot of food donation. So only those three monks were in the head after Samatha was given. So Buddha asked, why you are only one soul in a machine? And the monks told that maybe then Buddha said, don't do such a thing.

[17:44]

So this prohibition against false speech in Vinaya Buddhism is to say, I am enlightened. And if it's not true, that is Paralajika. So not telling a lie in general. So those are the four Paralajika precepts. And if anyone did something against those four Paralajika precepts, they lost life. And Buddhist sangha had a certain gathering twice a month on the evening of full moon and new moon. And the leader of the sangha recited the precept.

[18:45]

And anyone who thinks, may Even though there are four biological precepts against four biological precepts, they have to leave the Sangha. But their mistakes or misdeeds are less serious. They receive 13 penalties. That is how the Buddha meant it. That means within the Buddhist community, if there are certain behaviors or activities that are not ethical or immoral, then the Sangha needs to have the ability to keep or maintain

[19:50]

change their behavior. That is the way to keep the Sangha or community with the genuine spirit of Dharma. That is the teaching of Buddha in this sutra. And, please. Could you just spell the word that you're using? Ah, rajika. Yes, please. I hope I read it enough. J? Parajika? Something like this. You can check with Buddhist fiction. Do you know the date of Parajika? When was it written in the sutra? You mean Vinaya Precept? Yes. It was compiled, it was established at the first assembly after Buddha's death.

[21:14]

But we are not sure. The collection of Vinaya Precept is exactly the same as what we can read today. It might take more time to really establish the system of Vinaya Precept. they still maintain the Theravada tradition and also the Bodhi Theravada tradition in Mahayana Buddhism, except Japan. Japan is a kind of strange, unusual Buddhist country regarding the precepts. So, the Vinaya precept, Vinaya as a text, might be written down in the form we did today. Probably about the same time the Parinikaya was written down. That was about the first century before or after Komi era.

[22:18]

That means around the same time Mahayana sutra was also written down. So it's about two, at least two or three hundred years after Shakyamuni's death. So that is the source of this expression. A monk asked to saw them. In the received teachings, so this is from the 9 or 13 sutras, actually this sutra On this teaching, exactly the same sutra is also part of the Chinese Agama. Agama is the same as the term Nikaya. But the Chinese version, the Agama translates into Chinese Ah, originally written in Sanskrit.

[23:23]

So these are two different kind of branches. So if both certain teachings appear both in Pali and Chinese, that means this teaching is pretty old, existing before this separation or division occurred. So this teaching might be quite old. But as I said on Saturday morning, I'm not sure if Shakyamuni Buddha really saw the ocean or not. I don't see any evidence in Shakyamuni Buddha's biography that he saw the ocean by himself. In this sutra, Shakyamuni is asking to the chief of Asura about the ocean. So probably Shakyamuni Buddha himself didn't, you know, discuss a whole thing taught about the ocean.

[24:27]

So, this kind of teaching might be established before Buddhism encounter with the ocean. That means, in my knowledge, King Ashoka, King Ashoka's brother became a Buddhist monk. I think his name was something like Ahim. I'm not sure. Anyway, this person, this man, who was King Ashoka's younger brother, went to Sri Lanka. That's the first transmission of Buddhism from India to Sri Lanka. That is the origin of Theravada tradition in Sri Lanka, its continuity. So at least, King Ashoka was about was in the throne about 100 years after Buddha's death. So between these 100 years since Buddhism was, how can I say, went out of India.

[25:42]

Not only Sri Lanka, but also King Ashoka sent some Buddhist monks to Alexandria. So, before the time of King Ashoka Buddhism was, I think, encounter with the ocean. And in Mahayana Buddhism, ocean is kind of important. The same teaching about the eight virtues of the ocean appeared in the Avatamsaka Sutra. And according to the history, the legend, Atatamsaka Sutra was stored in the Dragon Palace in the ocean. And Nagarjuna visited the ocean palace and found the Mahayana Sutras. And the place

[26:46]

That name, Nagarjuna Konga, is by the ocean. It's southeast coast of India. So, Mahayana Buddhism has something to do with the ocean, probably because Mahayana Buddhism was supported by the merchants who trade. That's why Mahayana Buddhism went outside of India, going through the Silk Road, Merchants travel with Buddhism, fly Buddhism, travel outside of India. And another route of trading was oceans through South, Southern India, and into China and China. So Indian traders, merchants, went to China from very early ages. Probably those merchants who were sailing to trade supported Mahayana Buddhism.

[27:58]

So Mahayana Buddhism one time reached to Indonesia. Now we don't have Buddhism like this in Indonesia, but once there was Mahayana Buddhism. I mean, something like a probe, probe door, maybe. So Buddhism has, how can I say, has been supported by many people who are very active. That's why, especially Mahayana Buddhism reached to China through Silk Road and also the ocean. Probably that was one of the reasons of the teaching So in the Avatamsaka Sutra, exactly the same teaching about that.

[29:00]

In the case of Avalokiteshvara, it's not eight, but ten virtues of the ocean. So probably this monk mentioned what is written about the ocean in the Avatamsaka Sutra. Or the same teaching appeared in the Mahayana Parinibbana Sutra. This teaching about the eight or ten virtues of the ocean is kind of well-known. One of those eight or ten virtues of the ocean, or also the Sangha, is that the great ocean does not house a dead body.

[30:07]

In China, tai kai fu shoku shishi tai kai is great ocean not industrialization house or allowed to stay is dead body, corpse. So this is from that teaching in the sutras. Great ocean that will allow dead body stay or house dead body. And his monk's question is, what is this ocean?

[31:25]

What is this ocean? And in the original teaching, this ocean means Buddhist Sangha. You know, even today we call, there is an expression, This is one of the main of Buddhist sancta, or monastery. Shojo is clean and pure, without defilement. Shojo daikai is in great ocean, and shu is assembly.

[32:27]

in a Buddhist sangha, that sangha or community should have that quality, that something un-defined, we should claim. If we don't have that ability, we cannot call a community as a Buddhist sangha. And this expression, I think, is the source that, even today, the monastery, the monks are called dai-shi, dai and shu. So that came from the Buddha's teaching about the quality of the summer. Anyway, so, in the sutra, this Dankai Great Ocean refers to a Bodhisattva or a monastery.

[33:40]

It does not allow dead bodies to stay. That means if someone's life as a Bodhisattva or a Bodhisattva But his question is, what is this ocean? Of course, it's a common sense, this ocean means Bodhisattva. But he's still asking, what is this ocean? So that means the monk thinks something different. Then Sozen, the master, said, it contains the 10,000 beings. It contains the 10,000 beings. In Chinese, this is only four characters. Hō means to embrace, and gan is include.

[35:13]

Embrace and include. Hō gan. And gan is 10,000. Who is being. So embracing or including 10,000 beings, that means all beings. So, Sozan is saying that this ocean is not a community of Buddhists, but this is embracing and including 10,000 beings. So, I think what he meant is, you know, In the Togakubi, the original, this entire ten-direction world is this great ocean. So, he is saying this great ocean is much larger than Buddhist community.

[36:18]

Then, the monk asked, because Solan said, this includes everything, excluding nothing. Then the man gasped again. Then why doesn't it have such a body? If this great ocean includes everything, why is there some exception? If this ten direction word includes everything, why this dead body cannot stay? Why this network does not allow dead body to stay?

[37:20]

Then the master said, someone whose breath has stopped This thing in Chinese is... That is something, someone stopped something. So it's stopped. And ki is, you know, same word as chi. It's energy, in this case, like energy.

[38:28]

Or ki, same ki as a cookie, that means air. So, Kali will tell us to stop breathing and share with a person. So, a person who stops breathing, that means that is the same as a dead body, a person who doesn't breathe. who is not, and this jack, he translates as belonging. I'm not sure what belonging means, how jack can be translated as belonging. But this jack is attachment. Attachment? Stick? So that means the person who stops breathing, that person is not attached.

[39:37]

That means it's not there. That means within, I think, within this great ocean, the person who stops breathing I think when these two people are discussing, I think The other thing or topic in their mind is already not about the precept or people who made mistake, which did.

[40:41]

They are talking about this, you know, something, you know, how can I say, this entire ten direction world in which everything would be included. That is not something included here. And one interpretation can be that the person who stopped breathing is already not part of this network. That's an example. I have a different feeling about it. So it's like when you're trying to hold yourself in an ego position, you don't let the energy go through. So then you're not part of the connection. And so it's more about the energy. Yeah, I think that is the last comment of Sosa.

[41:47]

These are very short sentences. And there are many possible ways to interpret it. Please. If you go back to the story about the question, alive or dead, this is not the same kind of dead as the question in the other story. I don't think so. It's a different story and a different meaning. Please. If we pay attention, we are talking about samadhi. I understand that he is taking this koan as an example of what is made by Samadhi. Yes. So when we are in the sendo breathing together, we are just immersed in Samadhi somehow. But if someone is a member who is not welcome, he cannot breathe together. We say him bye-bye. You cannot breathe together in the sendo. Because the example is we are breathing together because we are in Samadhi, in the center.

[42:54]

So these dead bodies, you are not welcome here, please don't breathe with us. Because we must have in community. And this is the double meaning which is in the background. Because, you know, it makes no sense to have this one here, because the subject is Samadhi. Interesting understanding. I think that the path of I mean, anyway, because Sodom said, you know, the person who doesn't breathe is not included. Please. I thought the 10,000 beings was inclusive of the entire universe, of rocks, beings, non-beings, everything. Yeah, that is the point of this man's question. Yeah, that is a monk's question.

[43:56]

And so he questioned again. So the master said, someone whose breath has stopped doesn't belong. Then the monk, I asked again, if it contains the 10,000 beings, why is it that someone whose breath has stopped doesn't belong? exactly the same question. Then, finally, Soudan said, this final statement by Soudan is a problem. I mean, not fact he said, but the text is a problem. I mean, in Dogen's text, fact Soudan said is one knew Banyu hi go ho ze ki.

[45:00]

Period. Banyu is 10,000 beings. And sore is each. Ko is many. in this translation. And he is north. And the key is in this first, the key. Stop breathing. So in this translation, Calvary translates, it is not the merit It is not made of the 10,000 things to stop breathing. That means that all 10,000 things in this network is always breathing. It has a life. So if someone's breathing is stopped,

[46:11]

then it's already not included in here. It disappeared. That could be the meaning. Actually, this is Dogen's text in this writing, and also in the collection of 300 poems. Dogen spoke this sentence here. But as Karl Wilhelm said in the note. Note number seven. It's note number seven. This is not the end of the sentence in the original text. It has three more characters, right? But not two more. Zeki utoku. toku is being and also have, to have.

[47:27]

And toku is virtue, virtue. And if this sentence continues until here, in the Keitoku Dentoku, this sentence is separated. here. So the key to stop breathing is the subject of this card. So the one who stops breathing has or has much. And this card can mean 10,000 beings. is not if-merit period. So, Karl Wilfried translate this version as the 10,000 beings when lacking their merit, stop

[48:34]

The 10,000 beings are without their merit. The 10,000 beings are without their merit. One whose breath has stopped has its virtue. That is the Kali-Refrain translation of this sentence, if there are two more characters are here. And the interpretation of this sentence is, within this great ocean, each and every things are without their merit, means There is no such merit of each and every one, because they are all connected, because there is no individual existence.

[49:51]

Each one doesn't say, I have such a virtue, I did such a great thing. So each one is only existing as a part of this network. And people who stop breathing has a virtue. And we can interpret it in a few ways. One is being one natural way of 10,000 beings. existing and living as a part of this network without saying, I am, or me, or grasping of me, I. I did such and such things. This is positive.

[50:55]

And person, people who say, I have a virtue, is dead. Dead people. Conducted, there is no such dead people. That is one possible interpretation. This is Karl Wilfelt. Karl Wilfelt's interpretation of this version. You know, if not Karl Wilfelt, this sentence might mean the ocean holds only those beings that are devoid of merit. So all beings in this network are devoid of merit. Fearless, the dead body retains, the dead body retains its virtue, saying, this is me. That means if someone says, this is me, I am such and such,

[52:02]

Such person is dead. Therefore, Amitendu does not belong within this great ocean. That is a very different interpretation of this sentence in the original version. But somehow Dogen Zenji, take out intentionally or mistakenly, take these first last two, two characters. So when we read Dogen's text, we have to interpret this sentence without this. And he introduced, you know, the translation he did in this text is, It's not the merit of the 10,000 things to stop risk.

[53:05]

So now this is the end of the sentence. We take this out. So his translation in this text is, it's not the merit of the 10,000 things Don't stop breathing. That means if we stop breathing, we are not part of this. This is one possible translation, one interpretation of this sentence. This is interpretation by commentator Yoshio Hogenzo. That is, the 10,000 beings, when lacking their merit, stop living. That means 10,000 beings then lacking their merit means then they are free from their idea or calculation of ideas, such and such, many beneficial things.

[54:36]

Then that person stops breathing. So in this interpretation, stop breathing is something positive. Stop breathing. excluded. But unless we stop breathing, we can't be part of this great ocean. So the meaning could be opposite. So this stop breathing means being free from self-claiming. Dogen's engineering expression, dropping of body and mind. And I said, as the nets were ceasing, or ceasing, or perishing, Dogen then discussed about the merit of body and mind dropped off.

[55:38]

This body and mind, when body and mind is dropped off, that is stopped breathing. We become free from ego-clinging. It stops breathing. So we don't say, I did such and such great thing. That is how these 10,000 beings are existing within this great ocean, the network of interdependent origination. So when we really live in a way, you know, that ten million travelers came toward the sea and carried that enlightenment, this breathing is not my breathing. So I stop breathing with my self-power.

[56:40]

But somehow air comes in and goes out. So it's not my personal effort. I breathe. So of course, you know, this five senses is still breathing. But this breathing is not this person's work. But somehow, you know, air comes in and goes out. And our body can welcome the air, and the air goes to our body and leaves. So there is no such person who is breathing. That is what this zeki means in this interpretation. And this is kind of a traditional understanding So, you know, to read and understand these kinds of stories with very short, broken Chinese expressions can be very vain.

[58:01]

So we can interpret in many different ways. Really, really, this story, really many. So, if we want to enjoy, you're studying this kind of story, koan story, you know, we have to enjoy this many different possible interpretations. And, you know, we see the possibility, not without, if we want to say, really, you know, these two people met, and there's no touch, I see those two people really make this water. This is like, you know, in Gensokyo, fish sees water as a palace. And we see water as water, and heavenly beings see water as a jewel, a jewel necklace, or just a jewel.

[59:13]

And hungry ghosts see water as a purse or a bra. So each person, depending upon their karma, sees the same water in different ways. And when we interpret this kind of conversation, same here, and we cannot say, you know, which is correct. You know, the fact he is going to, and Dogen is going to write is his comment, his way of understanding this conversation. And we cannot say his understanding is really only correct understanding. There are many different possible understandings. So we have to be kind of patient. And as Logan said in different phrases, we are not sure if really the true one water is really there.

[60:19]

Since there is only our understanding. So that is the game we are playing. I think so. I think he's enjoying it. We are suffering. I have been studying this document these days. I think I have the great picture of what is this paper. In my opinion, there are two different sections. The first section we have been studying, which is Matsu, it is, Samadhi means, pay attention and don't do mistakes. That means, all these sections regarding arising, ceasing and so on, means pay attention.

[61:22]

Because in the vocabulary, although again, attention is not present. The second section about defilements and non-defilements and so, is because in the vocabulary of the game, there is no mistake and errors. And what he is saying in the first section is, pay attention and don't do mistakes. When I tried to enter into the sendo, he said to me, stop, because the bell sounded. So, it is the first section. So, if you pay attention and don't do mistakes, at that moment, you may reach Samadhi. And this second section is, How can the community get samadhi? Send out that person who is not welcome. In that case, you have samadhi because you pay attention to do whatever is required. And this is the idea of defilement and not defilement. So, if you pay attention, if you don't do mistakes, you may reach samadhi. And if you avoid this person who is not welcome, then the community may reach Samadhi.

[62:23]

This is the great feature of this chapter, in my understanding. That is your interpretation. That is my understanding. This is not a problem, but this is how it is, the original practice. And that problem is gone. And now, we are going to start Pat Dogen's comment on this story. So it's pretty vague. We can't say exactly what this monk and this Zen master saw them, then he said. But there are several possibilities to understand conversation needs, but one thing is clear is they are talking about what is this great ocean and what are those 10,000 beings within the ocean.

[63:31]

What is the quality of this great ocean? And if there's something which is not belongs to or included within this 10,000 D or in this lake or ocean. If there's something excluded within this ocean or not. I think that is the main point. So I think we should remember that. Please. If there is an ocean, there is also land. So the ocean can embrace everything. There must be, there is ocean and there is land, mountains. So there is something already excluded. Yeah, but here this great ocean is a symbol of this entire network.

[64:36]

And when he talks about one thing, he does the same thing. Anyway, so I'd like to start to read Dogen right about this conversation. Next paragraph. Kao-shan, or So-ran, was a Dharma brother of Yonin-jun. Dong-shan's essential message is right on the mark here. This, in the received teachings, varies a thing. It refers to the correct teachings of the Buddhas and ancestors. It is not the teachings of the commoners and norms. It is not the lesser teachings of the subsidiary Buddha Dharma.

[65:41]

So, now he talks about who is this person, so-and-so. Sozan is a disciple of Donshan or Tozan, as I said. When we read this kind of text, one of the, not important, but one of the kind of fun we can enjoy is when we read those Dogen expressions, Dogen usage or quotes. we see the original people who used that expression. In this kind of a short life piece, in the original it has only five pages or so, he quotes so many expressions from so many teachers.

[66:54]

For example, here is Tozen, and he is a disciple of Tozen. And he caught the conversation with Tozen's teacher, Ungan, and his younger brother, Dogo. and his conversation with his disciple Zen Gen about death, alive or dead, Zen Gen. And in this story, his Dharma brother, And Dogen also caught Ungan and Dobo's, another Dharma brother, boat person, Sensu.

[68:02]

And a little later, he caught, not caught, but used the expression by those three people's teacher, Yaksa, by expression, going to the deepest bottom of the ocean, and sometimes standing at the highest peak of the mountain, is Yakutan's saying. And he also used the sayings of Huenan, the sixth ancestor, Huenan. And Huenan's disciple at that time was Seimen. And Sekito is Yakuza's teacher. And another disciple is Nangaku. That is a person who said practice and verification are non-existent.

[69:13]

We cannot say there is no practice and enlightenment. But practice and enlightenment cannot be defined. That is Nangaku's statement. And Nanga recited it in Basho or Maruti. And a little later, he used the expression dai dai dai. The person who hears Basho's teaching, the mind itself is Buddha, and he entered a mountain and lived and practiced by himself for 30 years or so. Within this one text, we can see all those people's life and expressions and their practice and teaching. So when we read this kind of text, I recommend you to study each person's life and their teaching and their practice and their connection.

[70:21]

makes our Dharma world much more interesting. For example, when I lived in Minneapolis, the Minnesota Meditation Center has a country practice center in Hokyoji. Hokyoji is really in the middle of nowhere. So in the night, you can see really many stars. But because I know nothing about stars, just the stars. It's like very beautiful. So I could say they are beautiful. That's all I could say. But if you have some knowledge about, for example, some stories or myths from Greek or Latin, then seeing the night sky, become more beautiful.

[71:28]

It's a collection of old stories that we can relate. If you have some scientific knowledge about the stars and universe, then we can enjoy the beautiful stars with so many, beautiful sky with so many stars. It means something. We just need those quotes as just an expression then it's difficult for us to connect with those sayings and those people. But once we really study those people and the situation those people use their expression, then those people's life and teachings and expressions become part of us And that is how Kudoge is doing both things and people are part of his life.

[72:32]

And he can freely use and interpret in a way he can appreciate. So I think it's really meaningful to tell me not only just read that note and say, It is very meaningful to return to the original text of those expressions that were said by those different masters. And these people are almost like our own ancestors. 10 more minutes. So what Dogen says here is this Sozen, or Taoshan, was a Dharma brother of Yunzhi, or Yunzhi is Ungo, in our lineage.

[73:47]

So this is a connection with us. Sozen is a Dharma brother of Ungo in our lineage. And what he said next is, Dongshan's, Todan's essential message is right on the mark here. So what Todan tried to say is exactly the same with what Todan said. So if we read this sentence, we have to return, what was Todan's teaching? And why Todan's teaching? But Sozan is saying here, we need the same teaching. You know, we have to study. Dogen doesn't mention what qualities to find Tozan's teaching and Sozan's teaching in this conversation are the same. So we have to go back to Tozan's teaching and find what is the connection between

[74:57]

Sozan is same here, and Hozan, top. And that is, you know, Kei to Ungo. And through Ungo, it comes to us, and then. And if we study Buddhist teaching and practice according to, or according to Dogen's teaching, then this has something to do with what we are doing today. Making that kind of connection is really important when we study this kind of text. Just reading and understanding the meaning of what is written is not so important. It is important to make so many in terms of our own practice and our own life. the similar or same teaching of Tozan with Sodan sense.

[76:09]

Because I have to talk about Dogen's interpretation of this conversation. But that's not your homework. For example, the most familiar teaching of Tozan with us is Hokyo Zanmai. You know that, how do you call that in English? Jewel Mirror Samadhi. Jewel Mirror Samadhi. What Tozan said in Jewel Mirror Samadhi and what Sozan said here might have some connection. So please try to find it. So, Don Shams or Tozan's essential message is right on the mark here in Sozan's teaching. This, in the received teachings, there is a saying, referred to the correct teaching of Buddhas and ancestors.

[77:12]

So Dogen Zenju wants to read this teaching as Buddha Dharma, exact authentic teaching of That means it is not the teachings of the commoners and nobles. Commoners and nobles are Bonsho. Bonsho. born commoners or ordinary ordinary people like us and so he is here translated as noble and usually translated as sacred sacred or holy holy?

[78:21]

that means There are 52 stages of bodhisattva practice from the starting point when we have learned bodhicitta and started to practice as a bodhisattva and until we reach the Buddhahood. There are 52 stages So this is about Mahayana, system of Mahayana teaching. Each stage has another ten sub-stages. The first stage is called the stage of ordinary people, like us. Next, third. 30 stages are called sacred or holy people.

[79:27]

And the actual 10 stages of Bodhisattva start from 40, 40 to 50. That is kind of a terminology in our system of Buddhist teaching. We don't need to memorize all of those things, Actually, when we study so-called traditional Buddhist teachings, we have to memorize all of these. The names of each of 52 stages. This memorization is really important. Not only these 52, but what we call Dharma Numbers. like 4 Noble Truths, or 8 Noble Paths, or 12 Links of Causation. Those numbers are made to make them easy to memorize.

[80:34]

So, when we start, traditionally when we start Buddhism, first thing we have to do is memorize all those Dharma numbers. And so, Buddhist monks who went through that kind of fundamental education, all know this kind of monks. So, you know, Dogen Zenji, he used all those vocabularies, assuming his leaders already know all those things. For example, Dogen Zenji actually started to study Buddhist teaching when he was nine. When he was eight, seven or eight, his mother died. And he wanted to become a Buddhist monk. So soon after that, he started to study Buddhism, Buddhist teachings. And the text he studied when he was nine was Abhidharma Kosha.

[81:43]

Abhidharma Kosha has 30 volumes, and it's really a fundamental teaching of almost all Buddhist teachings. And after Abhidharma Kosha, I think because he became a Tendai monk, he studied Lotus Sutra and other important Tendai texts. So by the time he started to practice Zen at 17 years old, I think he already knew all most of that kind of teachings. And many of the monks, before they started to practice Zen, they already knew that kind of Dharma numbers as a common sense. But the problem with us, we have no such common knowledge about Buddhist teachings.

[82:46]

Unfortunately, fortunately, I became interested in Zen when I was 17. So I went to Komazawa University to study Buddhism. So I have some background of studying Buddhism in general. Then I studied Dogen. But in the West today, not many That kind of basic knowledge about Buddhist teachings is not available. So there are too many things to do to really appreciate Buddhist teachings. So we are still in the very beginning of the history, or even we are still a prehistoric stage of real American or Western Buddhism.

[83:57]

So we have to do so many things. And as a person who was born and educated and studied Buddhism in Japan, one thing I want to do is to share what I learned in Japan Anyway, what Father Dogen is saying here is that Sosan's teaching in this conversation is really authentic teaching transmitted through Buddhas and ancestors. At least we have to interpret and understand this conversation as an expression of the most essential teaching of Buddhas and ancestors, not as a common Buddhist teachings. So that is what he is saying. It is not the teachings of the commoners and nobles.

[85:02]

It is not the lesser teaching of the subsidiary Buddha Dharma. I don't know what this means. That means kind of a teaching for low-class people. who are not ready to study the ultimate truth. But we have to understand this conversation as the core of teachings of love and assistance. That is always Dogen's position, to understand whatever teachings as the essential teaching of the ancestors, that has been transmitted as a shogunate. can at least be very important to understand them.

[86:30]