2010.08.11-serial.00132

00:00
00:00
Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.

Serial: 
SO-00132
Photos: 
Transcript: 

I start the talk on the first paragraph, second paragraph, page 4 of this text with both English translation and original Japanese. So, let me read this section. When Big Dharma sits, he does not say, I sit. The time when he does not stay, I cease, is precisely when the dharma, dharmas cease. Ceasing is the ceasing of the dharmas. Though it is ceasing, it must be dharmas. Because it is dharmas, it is not the advantageous defilements. because it is not their advantageous defilement, it is undefiled.

[01:09]

Just this undefilement is the Buddha's antedilux. It is called, you are also like this. Who is not you? Prior thought moments and subsequent sent moments are all you. It is called, I am also like this. Who is not I? For prior thought moments and subsequent thought moments are all I. This physic is adorned with many arms and eyes. It is the unsurpassed great Nirvana. It is called death. It is grasped as annihilation. It is treated as a dwelling place.

[02:13]

The so many arms and eyes, such as these, are in any case the virtue of ceasing. The not stating at the moment when ceasing is I. They are not stating at the moment when arising is I. Have the same verse of not stating, but they are not stating of the same thing. Yesterday I said, you know, for many years I didn't understand what Lord is talking about when he is talking about this ceasing. You know, in this, like, he's basically discussing about a statement appeared in Basel's statement. And this is a part of Basel's statement that is, she, ho, mentsu.

[03:19]

Fu gen ga netsu. When this dharma ceases or perishes time, not staying, I And before he discussed about he or arising, things arise and perish like the waves in the ocean. Alive or being born, stay for a while and disappear. And previous section, he discussed about arising. And in this, from this paragraph, he discussed about perishing or ceasing.

[04:31]

Then I have confusion. Why season 8 can be Nirvana and the Five Elements? I don't really understand. For many others, I didn't understand. So this entire kind of idea didn't make sense at all to me. And as I said yesterday afternoon, this season, Dogen is discussing here is not the opposition of arising and perishing. That is what I found in the Pali Nikaya. In the Pali Nikaya, Buddha discussed, talked about the samadhi or concentration. He said when we grasp the five skandhas, And then we let go, open our hands, and don't attach ourselves to them. Then five skandhas cease.

[05:38]

That ceases. So it's not a matter of something coming to being, and this thing goes out of being. You know, that is all common meaning of this arising and ceasing. But it seems that when Fendogen discussed about this ceasing, or perishing, or metsu, he was discussing about something else. And that something else was that I didn't understand. Why this, you know, deep could happen? And that Ardhigaya, Buddha said in Parinikaya, one of the kind of hints to me, there is something twisted. And around the same time, I found the source of this twist.

[06:43]

And that is, Fat Dogen mentioned in this section, that is, In this paragraph he says, this ceasing is adorned with many hands and eyes. It is the answer past great Nirvana. It is called its death. It is taken as annihilation. It is treated as a dwelling place. So here, Metsu, or sea-ship, but pen-ship can mean nirvana and diving, both. And where does this nirvana come from? And actually, nirvana is also called Metsu. So this Metsu has double meaning.

[07:47]

One is a perishing something which is here, out of being. And another is nirvana. So here is this twist. So now he is talking about this myth as nirvana. I didn't understand because my way of thinking is really kind of intellectual and conceptual, so I'm not so free person to make such a twist. And Rogen doesn't caution, now I make a twist. Without saying, without saying, he twists. Well, isn't, I mean, isn't, this teaching is adorned with many hands and eyes. It is the unsurpassed great Nirvana. another koan story, so I have to talk about that later.

[08:58]

Anyway, so when I read this sentence, I didn't pay too much attention to the origin of this expression. And this is not an expression, this sentence came from the question and answer between ancestor, Hyoinan, and one of his disciples. His name in Japanese is Shindo. So we have to understand the fact that Dogen is right. And this story, conversation between Shido and Huinan, Shido in Chinese is Qin Tao.

[09:59]

And this appears in the chapter of this person in the Record of Transmission of Dharma. But I found the English translation of the Platform Sutra. The same conversation appeared in the Platform Sutra. And this conversation is pretty long, so I cannot introduce the entire question and answer. But his question and answer is very interesting. something to do with what Dogen is discussing here. But unless we check the original and make a connection by ourselves, we don't really know. That is the reason when we study Dogen, we have to study all the thoughts and expressions he uses and return to the origin of those

[11:07]

expression means, that's why it takes a long time to study Buddhism. And in this conversation, this person, Shido, or Chin Tao, was a monk who has been studying Nirvana Sutra for many years. And yet he had some questions about that teaching in the Nirvana Sutra. And his question is about this famous verse appeared in the Nirvana Sutra. That is, probably you know that story. In one of the past lives, Buddha was a Bodhisattva who practiced in the mountains, in Varanasi. His name was Sessan Doji, or Snow Mountain Bodhi. And this person hear the first half of the verse, and he wanted to hear the second half.

[12:17]

But when he tried to find the person who recited the verse, the person was like a demon. So the bully asked the demon to teach me the second half of the verse. But Raymond said, I'm hungry. So I cannot say, you know, chant the verse. Then the boy said, after you chant, you can eat me. So anyway, please teach me the second half of the verse. Anyway, I think you know this story. is what they are talking about. That is shogyo, mujyo, shomenko,

[13:28]

shōmetsu-metsu-in shō-metsu-metsu-in jaku-metsu-i jaku In this English translation, this is all things. All things, shogyo, are impermanent. All things are impermanent. And so, they belong to the dharma of becoming and cessation. Becoming and cessation, arising and perishing. So, all sanskara, all things, are impermanent, and these are the dharma of arising and perishing, coming and going.

[14:50]

And the third, this is the first half, the boy heard. And so the third, the demon decided after he asked. The third line is kind of interesting. This shōme is the same shōme as arising, perishing, in this translation. When both becoming and cessation cease, becoming and cessation, or arising and perishing, and this same kanji is repeated, So that means arising and perishing, perish. Does it make sense? Arising and perishing, perish.

[15:52]

Arising and ceasing, cease. And this E means have done. Have done, done. When arising and perishing are perished, or have perished, when arising and perishing have ceased, then that is, in this translation, when both becoming and cessation cease to operate, the bliss of perfect rest and the cessation of change, that is nirvana, arises. So, this is jaku-metsu. Jaku-metsu, iraku.

[16:54]

And this same jaku, and this jaku means tranquility. Tranquility, calm. Toronto's secession is Raku. Raku is a bliss in this translation. Bliss. Raku is the opposition of Kuu. Kuu is suffering or Yuka. And Raku is Tsuka. Opposition of Yuka. And that means Nirvana. So Nirvana is the secession of arising and cessation. So, you know, in the Abbas's statement about arising and perishing, these are this arising and this perishing. But somehow here Dogen is discussing this cessation.

[17:56]

Does it make sense? So now he left This perishing, that is the opposite of arising. But he's talking about perishing or ceasing or arising and ceasing. This is intertwist. He did without saying. So he's using the same kanji. Yeah, same kanji and same word. But this same kanji and same word has two, can mean two things. One is a patient, that is a person of arising. And a patient of this arising and perishing. That is nirvana. So now he's talking about nirvana. I couldn't connection with, or I couldn't understand this twist, so I didn't really understand what Dogen is talking about in this entire Kainzan Mai chapter of Shogun Zen.

[19:10]

So this twist is kind of important to understand what he's talking about. This means You know, in the Kali Nikaya, the Buddha talks about five skandhas. Five skandhas are go. In Japanese. In the Heart Sutra, you know, it says, go bun kai ku. It's go and five. or scapulas. And usually, or often, these five scapulas are called shu-in or shu-un. Shu means grasping or clinging. Then these five scapulas, five scapulas in this five body and mind, then this body and mind is grasped as me.

[20:19]

Then, these five skandhas is a cause for the suffering. But when we are free from this grasping, when we open our hands, these five skandhas cease to be not shun, just five skandhas as emptiness. And in Shobo Genzo, Maka Hanihara Dogen Zenji said, these five skandhas are five instances of Brahma. Does that make sense? Because they are empty. When we grasp and we think this is not empty, then these five skandhas or clinging to five skandhas become the cause of suffering. But when we see the emptiness of five skandhas, Five senses can cease to be a cause of suffering.

[21:22]

Does it make sense? This body and mind, that is what Dogen Zen meant when he said, dropping of body and mind. Then we don't grasp these five senses as me, as I, me and mind. believes as the instance of Prajna, five instances of Prajna. That is what dropping of body and mind means. So what he's talking about in this section of Kainzan-man, he's talking about, how can I say, Datsurakushin-jin, to make its opposite, Shinjin Tatsunami dropped Shinji.

[22:29]

That's it. Body, mind dropped Dogenbo. But in the story of his Dogenzenjin story, experience of changing gatsuraku. Ryojo Zenji said, changing the order, gatsuraku shinjin, that means the body and mind, that is dropped off. You know, when you grasp these five standards as me, these five standards become a cause of suffering. Then we open the hand and the five skandhas are just the five skandhas of emptiness. So Nyocho Zenji said Datsuraku Shinjin.

[23:34]

So was he implying that Shinjin Datsuraku is too much like doing too much. It's like a person doing too much. It's not really, you don't, we don't do it, we don't drop off body and mind. Body and mind drops us off, so to speak. So dropping off body and mind is kind of a one side. But there is still body and mind that is dropped off. And that is still living, still working, still functioning. Then, after that, I think Myojo said, that's enough, that's enough. That means dropping off is dropped off. Dropping off is dropped off, you know, it's only function.

[24:38]

There's no meaning. So the mind is dropped off. So it's only this arising and perishing, this working, activity, practice, is going on. Without the person who watches, who thinks, I am doing this, or who thinks my body and mind is now dropped off. That is still visible. Visible should be dropped off. Then our life is completely are part of this network of interdependent origination. And we are supported by all beings and all beings come toward us and carry out practice enlightenment through this body and mind. So this body and mind is completely a part of this universal movement.

[25:43]

And I think what Dogen is talking about in this paragraph is this body and mind dropped off and start to work as a Dharma. Until I understand this point, what Dogen is talking about here doesn't make sense to me. This raku and this raku is completely different one. This raku is drop off. Fall down. Fall down. That's easy to take off. And this raku is bliss. Or sukka. Anyway, the monk's question to the six ancestors was,

[26:52]

He didn't understand what this verse means. And monk said, we have two bodies, two kinds of bodies. One is grouper body, body as a material. And another is a dharma body. And his question was, which body receives this present? And his answer might be interesting. His answer to this question was, your argument implies that apart from the physical body, or lupa body, there is a lower, or dharma body, or dharma kāra. So Hila is saying, you separate the material body from the dharma body.

[27:57]

That duality is a problem. And that perfect rest and cessation of changes, changes means arising and perishing. Cessation of changes may be sought, sought apart from, are becoming an cessation. Does it make sense? Further, from their statement, Nirvana is everlasting enjoyment. You further, there must be somebody to play the part of the enjoyer. What is the problem? The monk questioned, who received this But who can enjoy this? And what Huenan, the successor, said is, when you attend nirvana, you disappear.

[29:00]

So no one, there's no such person who receives this bliss. This is same as the expression we talked before. Take advantage and lose the advantages. then we take advantage to meet some person, and when we meet that person, that advantage is lost, because the self disappears. So, in a sense, attaining the way, or attaining enlightenment, is losing the self. So when we attain enlightenment, there is no one who has attained that thing. So we cannot say, that something can happen, because there is no one who can do such a thing. That is the priest. So basically, put another way, there is nothing waiting for us, there is nothing waiting for us.

[30:03]

So, Fat Dogen, the Jikomen, doesn't just practice. Just do it. Then there's nothing to be attained and no one to attain, but it's there. It's beyond our thinking, beyond our observation, beyond our judging. It's absolute happiness. That is Nirvana. Always whatsoever. Enjoyable always. Anyway, then Xuanzang also said, Nirvana has neither the phenomenon of becoming, nor that of cessation, nor even the ceasing of operation of becoming and cessation. It is the manifestation of perfect rest and cessation of changes.

[31:07]

But at the time of manifestation, there is not even a concept of manifestation. If we think about manifestation, it's not a manifestation. So it is called the everlasting joy, which has neither enjoyer nor non-enjoyer. the answer to this person's question. And after this, answer please. That is another story.

[32:11]

That is not your story about freedom. It's related to the same paragraph we are reading. And the expression Dogen used from this story of freedom is It is called... It is the unsurpassed great Nirvana. It is called its death. It is grasped as annihilation. It is treated as a dwelling place. This expression appears after Heunan's answer in this story. After Huenam gave this answer to Rama, there is a verse.

[33:14]

And the verse, in the beginning of Huenam's verse, is saying, in this translation, The Supreme Mahaparinirvana is perfect, permanent, calm, and illuminating. Ignorant people miscall it. death. While heretics hold that it is annihilation, those who belong to the Shravaka viku, or the Pratyekabuddha viku, regard it as non-action. This is the part Dogen used. Did you find it? Just for those people who have it, it's in the notes, page 5. It's note 12, which is not the supplemental notes, regular notes.

[34:17]

But that's a slightly different translation than the one you just read. Yeah, only one word, non-action, is different in Dogen's writing. He said something like, nowhere to dwell, no dwelling. or something like that. He said it is treated as a dwelling place. Dogen said dwelling place, but in the original it said non-action. So the text Dogen referred might be very different from that text. Yes. So, Dogen didn't mention about this dialogue, but to understand what Dogen is talking, this dialogue to me is very helpful.

[35:24]

Unless we understand what Huyen said, we don't understand why Dogen could say such a thing about, you know, about Metsui's Nirvana. you know, message and even a claim for him. You know, because I didn't hear him talking about arising and perishing of all beings. Then he started to talk about perishing. He talks about Nirvana. And I didn't know why such a thing is possible. And these tweets, I think these tweets come from this story. Is she the one who says to the demon? Not she, but the Sessan Doji, the boy. The boy. Who was the Bodhisattva in Buddha's previous lives. Sessan Doji. Sessan Doji. Sessan means snow mountain.

[36:30]

and Doji means boy. So, Sesshan Doji was the name of the boy sattva who was in the previous life of Shakyamuni Buddha. Would you please say the first two lines of that four line? These two? Yes. Everything, all things, are impermanent. And these are the Dharma of arising and perishing. So now he is talking about Metsu, that is the cessation of arising and perishing. not perishing in opposite to arising.

[37:40]

That is important point. If we understand this point, what he is saying here is not so difficult. So the beginning of this paragraph said, when these dharmas cease, he does not state, I cease. The time when he does not state, I cease, is precisely when the dharma ceases. So this not staying, does not state, not staying, this hugen shows the Arising and perishing in our life is living and dying.

[38:44]

When we die, we don't say, I die. And we have no bringing to life, and no fear to death. That is what Dogen wrote in Shogun Genzo Shoji on life and death. Life and death arising in the flesh, or living and dying, is Buddha's life. So Dogen said, we should not cling to life, and we should not, not should, we don't need to have fear of dying. Life and death together is Buddha's life. That means if we see this arising and finishing as one process, and consider this as good as life, including death, then we don't need to bring to life, and we don't need to have fear against death.

[39:50]

And that is... from Nirvana, if we can live without clinging to life and without fear against death. That is Nirvana. And you may have a question, is such a way of life possible or not? I have at least one example. That is my teacher. He has a TV. for 50 years since he was in the middle of his 30s until he died when he was 86. He retired from antaiji when he was 63 because he couldn't continue to practice with young monks because of his physical condition. So after he retired from antaiji, his practice was taking care of his body and mind, and facing his own life and death.

[40:58]

And he wrote many poems, and also he wrote, he said, this is a kind of a report from the actual dying, aging and dying. But he had no fear. against dying. His wife, her name was Keiko-san, said, you know, sometimes he vomited blood, and his wife had fear, you know, he was dying, but he had no fear, and he was encouraging his wife not to worry, I'm okay. So he had no person to life and he had no fear against death. And yet he really took care of his body and mind, his health.

[42:01]

That's why he could live until 86 without that kind of careful way of life. So, to me, that is nirvana. Living without fear or attachment and fear against life and death. Just live and just die. He just died. Anyway, that way of life, without attachment or without detachment, That is what this body and mind, that is Torokutofu, means to me. So ceasing is a ceasing of the darkness. Though it is ceasing, it must be darkness.

[43:04]

It's still there. Even though we have no attachment and no fear, still arising and perishing is there. But this arising and perishing is not a samsara anymore. This is how that is. So because it is dharmas, it is not the adventurous defilement. So this is not This arising and perishing, or these five skirmishes, that is, arise, stay for a while, and perish, is not the source of suffering, or cringing, or defilement. It is not the adventurous defilement. It is undefined. When it drops off, our five senses, body and mind, are undefined, not defined with our desire to cling to it, or hate about it, or dislike it.

[44:25]

So, and now, Dogen mentions without saying, another conversation between Huinan and another disciple of him. That was Nangakuejo, or Nine-Way. Just this undefinement is the Buddhas and the Patriarchs. This undefinement came from the conversation between Huinan and Nangak. When Nangak first visited Huinan, Huenan asked, where are you from? Then Nangaku said, I came from such and such place. But next, Huenan asked a strange question. The question was, somodotsu in morai? Maybe I don't have time to explain. Somodotsu in morai, in English,

[45:25]

Then Huy Ngan couldn't say anything. So he practiced with... I mean, Ngan couldn't dance. So he practiced eight years. Eight years with Huy Ngan. And finally he understood the meaning of the question. And he said, now I understand the question you gave me. And I asked him. And... So if we now ask the same question again, first thing, how come? Then, Mangak said, speaking one thing, it's off the mark, that whatever we say about this one thing. Then, if we now say, if so, is there practice and verification or not? And Angak said, we cannot say there is no practice and verification, but practice and verification cannot be or should not be or not to be defiled.

[46:47]

This word, defiled or undefiled, came from this conversation. And is the practice and verification the shusho? Shusho, yes. Shusho, undefiled is Fu-Zen-Na. So, Shu-Sho-Fu-Zen-Na is a really important term. It is one of the key words of the practice of purification without defilement. Defilement is caused by our attachment or our dislike or hate against delusion. and attachment and clinging to so-called enlightenment. Therefore, usually we practice in order to escape from delusion or get nirvana or enlightenment. If we practice in that way, then that is defilement.

[47:52]

Our practice is defiled by our desire to escape from delusion and attain enlightenment. So in relation to that, as arising and ceasing are Buddha's life, it's not necessary to cling to life and fear death. But as Buddha's life is arising and ceasing, it's okay to cling to life and fear death. Yeah, we have to take care of our body to be in a good shape and for a long time. That is not, I don't think that is divine work either. But that is our practice. Without clinging and without fear, we just take care of our body and enjoy life.

[48:56]

Does that make sense? I think that is our practice. What's the matter with clinging? What's the matter with clinging? Because we suffer. That's our life. Our life is suffering. If you like suffering, that's okay. Even if we don't like it? I don't know. Anyway, there we are. Our defilement. And then, after that, Shonan said, this defilement is what buddhas and ancestors in the West have been protecting, maintaining, and maintaining.

[49:58]

This non-defilement, yes. And so this undefilement here came from that attachment. So this undefilement is... Huynh Nam originally said this undefilement is what Buddha's ancestors have been protecting and maintaining. But here he said this undefilement is itself Buddha's ancestors. So it is called, you are also like this. That is another part of human being. This underpinning is what the Buddha's ancestors have been maintaining. And you are like this. I am like this. You are like this. So you should maintain or protect it carefully. That was a human being in the end of this conversation. And this, you are also like this, I'm also like this, came from that same Oshuina.

[51:08]

Please. Just for everybody's sake, this is in the stories in the supplemental notes, number three. So it is called, you are also like this. and who is not you. Prior thought moments and subsequent thought moments are all you. Thought moment is me. I mentioned both thought and moment. But this is things happening in our life. or within our life. So this is arising and perishing. And he said, all people, all of us who has name is I. So this I is Buddha and ancestors.

[52:16]

So we are not outside of that group of people. But Dogen and Shunran is talking about all of us. So we are not outside of the kāi nidāma. We are right within there. It is called, you are also like this, who is not you. Prior thought moment and subsequent thought moment are all you. And it is called, I am also like this, who is not I. All of us are I. And of course, this I, depending upon whether we grasp it as me and our upbringing or not, this I becomes the source of suffering and creates samsara. And yet, if this I is released from our upbringing, then this I is

[53:22]

This grasp or open our hand is the key point of this teaching. This ceasing, for prior moment thought and subsequent thought moment are all I. This ceasing is adorned with many hands and eyes. Hand and eyes came from another koan story, so I talk about this later. But here he said, this cessation of arising and perishing, or in Dogen's expression, body and mind that is dropped off, has many hands and eyes. Hands and eyes is about body, about pleasure. Who has hands to help others,

[54:30]

and also eyes. On each of Avalokiteshvara's hands there are eyes. So eyes is wisdom and hands is activity or practice based on Avalokiteshvara's compassion. So this dropped-off body and mind has many hands and eyes. This is a source of wisdom and compassion. But if we cling to these five skandhas, then these five skandhas become cause of suffering, cause of the problems. So, this teaching is hands on eyes. It is the unsurpassed great nirvana. This can be nirvana. And it is called death, some people have pronounced it in a verse.

[55:35]

This can be called, of course, death. And take it as annihilation, kind of a negative way of seeing this transition. It is treated as a dwelling place. That so many arms and eyes, such as these, are in any case the virtue of ceasing. So all those are the virtue of ceasing, cessation of arising and perishing. And next sentence is really difficult. I don't really understand. That is, they are not stating Now he told about this not stating. Not stating. At the moment, when ceasing is I. This I. I'm ceasing.

[56:39]

So not stating. The original sentence is, when Dharma ceases, the Dharma doesn't say, I cease. But now he says, Not saying is important. Just not saying, I'm perishing, is not. Open our hands. And the not stating at the moment when arising is up. This is about previously when he discussed about arising, In the Buddha's statement, the same thing is said. When Dharmas are arising, Dharmas doesn't say, I'm arising. So he's talking about this not saying and this not saying.

[57:41]

The time of arising and time of ceasing. And he said, Not stating at the moment, arising with I. Have the same path of not stating. That means, as for not saying, these are the same. That means no grasping, no clinging, neither arising nor perishing. But, At the end, he says something strange. But they are not stating all the same thing. I don't really understand this part. According to the commentaries, this is not the same. It is the same, either Netsu or him arising or perishing or ceasing.

[58:46]

Arising and ceasing are different. This is one of the interpretations. Not saying is the same, but metsu and hi are different. But still I don't understand. Is it saying something along the lines of arising and perishing are not the ceasing of nirvana? Is it trying to kind of open up that point that you made earlier? Sure. Probably this means arising and perishing, whether we in sansara or nirvana, if we open our hand and say, not same, then same, different.

[60:02]

We can say it's different, but it's not really different. This, you know, very subtle sameness and difference. And I don't know how to, you know, It's the same on both sides, it's different, and yet it's the same. It's the same, but really different. I cannot yet express or explain my understanding of what he's saying. In the 12-fold legs, there's... When you go through and you actually take the perception, is that the same as this name here? Do you know the word namarupa?

[61:16]

Namarupa. I started to talk about this quite a long time ago. But now, namarupa in Japanese or Chinese is myōshiki. Myō is name. So probably, English of the name and Sanskrit were never some connection. And rupa is shiki, or material. And this nama rupa, originally, means the object of sense organs. That means the object we see, hear, taste, absorb, is the combination of myo and shiki, name and material.

[62:20]

So we don't really see the material itself. We see this material through the name of this. So I see this as a blackboard, as the name of this material. And this name shows the relation between this person and this thing. This is, to me, for now, this is a useful thing. And so blackboard shows this relationship between a person who wants to write something. And this can be used for writing. That is what blackboard means. But for someone who are not interested in writing anything, you know, this thing is not a block. Does it make sense? This thing just can be a file.

[63:24]

So there's no such... We don't see the Rupa or material itself, but we see through name. That shows our kind of perception of what this means. So when we become free from this nāma rūpa, then this thing ceases to reveal as it is. This is not a blackboard, necessarily. This is a blackboard for other people. who read or who use this thing as a record. This can be a file of any kind. So, the name can be always changed. Then, when we see, when we are released from this Nama Rupa, then this thing starts to live just as it is.

[64:35]

not the object of this person's design. That is another meaning of metsu, or dropping off. Then I'd like to go next. From this paragraph, this one, and the next one, he talks about In the passage saying, Dogen then quote, in the beginning of this writing, he said, ho and nem, then ho, then ho, and go ho, and then nem, then nem,

[66:35]

Namely, previous dharma, and later our subsequent dharma, and previous thought movement, and subsequent thought movement. but similar expression in Maso's saying, I think, so, and so. And to so, this is also time. So, some is the same, exactly the same. And the meaning is also almost the same. But this time means break. And this tai means confront each other, oppose each other.

[67:45]

But anyway, this sou means mutually. Mutually confront each other, or mutually waiting each other. And fu is not. So this goes to sou tai. Sotai means not relative, not in duality. These dharmas in the past and the dharma later dharmas and this name as a thought or moment are not relative to each other. That means fact. the original sayings in Vaso's quote, it meant.

[68:47]

And I don't comment about this part. Not related to each other. Related to each other. I think the same. And what he's saying is Ceasing is the ceasing of the prior dharmas. Prior dharmas is dead form. And it is the ceasing of the subsequent dharmas that go for next dharmas. So this dharma ceases and this dharma ceases. It is not, I'm sorry, it is the prior moment thought moment of the dharma, that is nen. And it is a subsequent thought moment of the dharma, a subsequent nen.

[69:51]

So they are perished, ceasing. And it is the prior and subsequent dharmas that constitute the dharmas. It is a prior and subsequent thought movement that constitutes the dharmas. They are not relating. Not relating is these two. Not relating and constitute the dharmas. They are not opposing. He translates this as not opposing. not relating and not opposing each other, is the dharmas constituted. Anyway, what he is saying is, everything is dharma. Everything is dharma. All dharmas are coming and going, get together and disperse, right?

[70:53]

So only dharmas are moving around. To make them not opposed, to make them not related, is the same eight or nine tenths complete. Now I have to talk about this koan story, about wungan and robo, about the post-statue of Great Compassion, again Avalokiteshvara. I think this is very well-known story, so probably many of you already know. But this is a conversation between Wungan and Doho.

[72:02]

Wungan is, in Chinese, young, yang. And Doho is Dao. Dōgo already appeared in our conversation before class. I talked about the koan of alive or dead yesterday. And Dōgo was that teacher who said, I won't say, I won't say. I won't say alive, I won't say dead. And Unga was, she's Dōgo's dharma brother. And they are practicing together for many years, 30 or 40 years, with their teacher, Yakusan again. Yakusan, or Yawashan. And some texts say they are not simply Dharma brothers, but they may be real brothers.

[73:11]

and Ungan became one before Dogo. And yet Dogo attained so-called enlightenment before Ungan. So it's a kind of complicated relationship. Anyway, Ungan asked Dogo, what does the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion, that is Avalokiteshvara, what does Avalokiteshvara do with so many hands and eyes. So one of the bodies of Avalokiteshvara manifest is called Senju Sengen. Senju Sengen. That means 1,000 hands and 1,000 eyes. You may see a statue of Avalokiteshvara, which has many hands.

[74:16]

It's like a wing of a bird. And those are all hands. And some statues have barely 1,000 hands. And each hand has an eye. So there are 1,000 eyes on 1,000 hands. As I said, eyes and hands mean Eyes refer to wisdom, and hands refer to work, function. So Avalokiteshvara, in order to help all beings with compassion, so this is a voice of compassion.

[75:19]

In order to help others with compassion, Avalokiteshvara needs wisdom and also to do something, or skillful means. So, he's talking about the Avalokiteshvara with one thousand hands and eyes. His question was, what this person does with so many hands and eyes? Then, Dōgo, or Daoku, So, it's like someone reaching back for the pillow at night. You understand this? Someone is sleeping in the dark. Complete darkness. Someone is sleeping. And somehow, the person, when the person moved, he lost the pillow in the darkness.

[76:26]

And the person is still, you know, more than half-sleeping. And yet, with her, and this is complete darkness, there's no way to see the pillow. And yet, the person is half-sleeping, is, you know, trying to get the pillow and back to underneath his head. That was what Dōgo was saying. It's like someone reaching back for the pillow at night. Then, when Yonyang Tungang said, I understand. Then Dao said, how do you understand? Yonyang said, all over the body is hands and eyes. All over the body is hands and eyes. This is translation of henshin. Hen means whole, as a whole, everywhere.

[77:42]

So every part of his body is hand and eyes. That means his entire body is hand and eyes. And Dao said, you said a lot, but you got only 80%. only 80%. That is the slogan that is used in this sentence. He said, 80 or 90%. So that saying came from this story. Then, Unga said, what about you, Elder Brother? Then, Dao said, Throughout the body is hands and eyes.

[78:45]

Throughout the body is two shins. So they are saying almost the same thing. whether they are saying the same, completely the same, or different, is one of the points of this court's story. But I don't think I can discuss about that point now. Here, for Dobin's discussion about kaiin-zamori, I think it's enough to know that this expression comes from this court. Here we are.

[79:45]

To make them not opposed, to make them not related, is a saying eight or nine tenths complete. That is what Dogo said. Then Oongang said, this whole body is hand and eyes. Dogo said, you only said 80% or 90% completely. Then Oongang asked, what about you? And Dogo said, almost the same. And next sentence, there is a take up There is a taking up, there is a taking in. That takes as hands and eyes the four great elements and the five aggregates of ceasing. So all these hands and eyes of Avalokiteshvara is the function of this five aggregates of ceasing, is brought off of your mind.

[80:59]

dropped-off body and mind, that means our body and mind that is liberated from our brain can function as avalokiteshvara's hands and eyes. And there is an advance. Advance means going forward as a practice or activity. of Avalokiteshvara. There is an encounter. Encounter is, again, shoken, meeting each other. That takes as its cause. It's caused in the process of our practice. When our body and mind is dropped off, we can really work together with all beings as a part of Avalokiteshvara's thousand hands and eyes.

[82:05]

As it's caused, the four great elements and five aggregates of system And at this time, when we are practicing with dropped-off body and mind, hands and eyes throughout the body, that is, Wungan said, and Dogen said, are not enough. And hands and eyes as the entire body are not enough. So, in fact, Dogen is saying, you know, there, both Ungan and Dogo's saying, entire body is hand and eyes, not enough. Of course, Dogen does not recite those two ancestors, but this is not enough, means, same as Dogo, Watao, who said,

[83:12]

Only 88% or 9% complete. That means, in Japanese, hachi, ku, jo. Hachi is 8, ku is 9, and jo is complete or achieved. This is kind of an important thing in Soto Zen tradition. That means there is no time to be 100% perfect. We are always 80 or 90% complete, or achieved. That means our practice is now over. There is no way we can be perfect, and that is OK. So we practice a little more. Suzuki Roshi said, we are OK as we are, but we have to improve ourselves a little bit.

[84:24]

So there's no, in our practice, in our tradition, there's no 100% perfect. But if 80% or 90% are achieved or successful, And that's okay. That means it's okay and yet we have to make an effort, a little bit. So, we are always in that process. So, even this entire body and the whole body is not enough. That means body, or hands, or eyes, are not that kind of, not something particular. Namely, it's this kind of names.

[85:26]

Then it becomes something limited. But actually, you know, this Avalokiteshvara's work is not limited with hands, eyes, or body, even though it is an entire body. It's really everything, the entire universe, working as a Bodhisattva. Only if this body, five skandhas, are dropped off. That is what this means. Seizing is the virtue of the Buddhas and ancestors. So this season is about you, all brothers and ancestors. Is that a hundred percent? No calculation.

[86:27]

It's already here. I know you have many questions.

[86:42]