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Good morning. This morning we start the second paragraph from the bottom of the page three. Yesterday afternoon I started to quote this person saying, and all the Buddha said, when arising and ceasing, don't stop. This is the part of the conversation between Ganto and Rasa that I talked yesterday. In the original conversation, this is a question. And the meaning of this question is, when arising and ceasing, He is arising.


Matthew is perishing. And Phil is not. And George stopped. And if this is a question, actually this is a question. This means I think about my own mind, which is probably in his gazelle. You know, within his gazelle, his mind doesn't stop thinking. Always thoughts are coming and going. And I think our gazelle is the same. But in the theory of awakening of faith, the true reality of one's mind is beyond thinking. So when thought ceases, we can see that mind in nature.


That is enlightenment. That means as far as thoughts are coming and going, we are looking. So, another day is not good. So, this question is, how can we stop thinking? Or, my mind thought never ceased. Always coming and going. So, what can I do? That is the question. I think this is the same question as, you know, in the story of Second ancestor and Bodhidharma. Second ancestor Shukri asked, my mind is not yet pacified, not peaceful yet. Could you pacify me, my mind? Then Bodhidharma said, bring your mind and I will pacify your mind.


So Shukri tried to find Then Bodhidharma said, I have pacified your mind. So the meaning of this question and his teacher Ganto's answer are the same with Bodhidharma and the second ancestor. In fact, his teacher said it was, who's arising meditation? In Couch Chinese, they swing. They mean this. And swing, who? Whose mind? Whose mind I'm talking? Of course, his mind.


Mind, mind. So who is this me? Again, And if we think to the nature of this I that doesn't really exist as a fixed entity. This is just arising and perishing of many different values getting together and making a combined form. So there is no such thing as God. your mind. So then, in our zazen, all different kind of thoughts, feelings, emotions coming and going in our mind. And the important point is to let it go. Don't grasp, don't fight against it, or don't grasp, don't follow.


Just let go. And this letting go is a very important point in Lama Tsongkhapa's teaching. facing the wall with this straight posture, we can do three things. One is just sitting. And second is thinking. And third is sleeping. Even if we sit with perfectly upright posture, before we are thinking, it's nothing at all. It is thinking. Same thinking as we do at the desk. And if we are sleeping, that sleeping with upright posture is exactly the same as sleeping in a bed.


So both are not the same. Please. What does this line mean, the vertical line in your diagram? This is how far we are from just sitting. So this is sitting. This is here, in Chenroshi's diagram. This is just sitting. This is what we're supposed to do. So, without thinking and without sleeping. So, we usually think this is the place or point we should stay and sleep. Sometimes, As a common idea of Zazen practice, the purpose or goal of our Zazen is no thought come up without any thought or any perception, anything.


The famous saying, Munen, means thought. Thought is perception. So we use it commonly in no thought, no perception. Our mind is really calm without all that kind of up and down. That is kind of a common image of our Zazen practice. And that common image came from the theory of awakening of faith. The true reality or original awakening or enlightenment is no thought. When thought ceases, then we are reality itself. But what Dogen Zenji is talking about is that is not at least his style.


That means to me that is not my style. This is what Fakuchi Amurochi is trying to say is not his zazen. Zazen is not staying on this line. This line is a place to return. It's nice to have a place or a point to return. Otherwise, we don't know how far we are from. So whenever we start to, you know, interact with what is happening in our mind. When we see, then there is a separation between the person sitting and the things happening in our mind. When we are sitting in a zen-dom facing the wall, there is no object, only the wall is there. And then all different kinds of thoughts coming and going.


And those become the object of our mind. And we start to play with, or fight against it, or chasing after it, or we love those souls. Or if that kind of thing, when that kind of thing happens, there's separation between person-city and things happening in our mind. And those things happening in our mind become the object of this person-city. That is the separation. And when we find such a separation and we are interacting with those things happening in our mind, we stop it and return to just seeing. That is which I would say is the most important point to return to. So, if we find, we are aware we are interacting with something, in this point we return only a little bit, but sometimes we are very far away.


And really, sometimes, you know, so, you know, fresh image, almost real things happening, and we are really angry about those things, you know, happening in our mind. So is that the same or is it different from returning to the source? I don't think it's the source. It sounds familiar to me. The expression for language is similar. In fact, the vocabulary Dogen then uses and those Buddhist terms are similar. It's very difficult to see the difference. Is it subtle? Subtle difference? I think so. The difference is clear when we practice.


If we just read the text, it's not clear what Doge is talking about and what Awakening of Faith is talking about. Because they use the same vocabulary. So you must be careful. No, I don't mean to belabor the fact that I really do understand C1, C2, C3, more investment, or more. But I did find this one line. You have an arrow on top and an arrow on the bottom. Vertical line, so I don't understand that line. This guy? Yes, I understand the horizontal line. I don't understand this one. line, the arrow, yes. This one? Yes. How deep were my three beads? Oh, so you're just pointing in a direction. Yeah. Because I understand the other lines. Thank you. Yeah, this is a line. It's just showing us.


Okay. Just see. So can you make the diagram without that vertical line and it's still telling us? Anyway, so, if our goal or purpose of our Zazen is to eliminate all this anger, then this is really a serious problem. My mind, within my mind, no matter how much I sit, still my mind is moving. coming and going, what can I do? And his teacher, Ganto, said, whose mind, whose soul, whose arising and perishing? So this is another point that Dogenbenji said.


in Genjoko, that is, when we convey ourselves to myriad things and carry out practice enlightenment, it's delusion. If we try to eliminate all those thoughts with my effort, then that is, I convey myself and control my thoughts. And that is delusion. That is still based on delusion of I. I control my mind and eliminate all my thoughts, so I force my mind to stop working. Then still, you know, subject, object. I pacify my mind. Bodhidharma or Ganto Teri. If we see the nature of this I, there is no such thing.


When I explain about I as myself, I always use the example of driving a car. You know, even when we sit in this upright posture, When we drive, we put the gear into neutral, and the motor or engine is still moving, but the car doesn't move. That is important. Our thought is still coming and going. But because we let go, the root is cut off or the air is in the neutral. So we are not moved by this thought. And this thought is coming from our consciousness, karmic consciousness. made by our past acts.


I'm so sorry, but the flat line, you've been practicing how many years? 40, 50 years? About 40. So how long can you stay on that line? You mean, stay on this line? without thinking or thinking. Well, I cannot do it by myself. But it happens. I never measure. If I measure, I'm doing. But for example, you know, I started to practice Zazen when I was 19. And until I was about 40 or 20 years, my practice was really just sitting in Uchiyama Roshi's style of daze.


We had a five-day session at least 10 times a year. And during those five-day sessions, we sit for 15 minutes, five times, and we sit 40 minutes a day. So, from 4 in the morning until 9 in the evening, we sit except one, except 3 minutes, and a short break after each minute. So, from 4 in the morning until 9 in the evening, we are just for five days. Five days session, each month means almost every three weeks we have session. And I practiced in that way, at that time for five years, and then in Massachusetts another five years, and I continued until I went to Minneapolis.


So all about 20 years, my practice was really only just During those sessions, we have no lecture, no doksan, no chanting, no soji, or work period. And, you know, when we continue five day sessions so many years, we start to see the condition of my mind. Not only mind, but my body and mind. And not always, but commonly, the first day or the second day, I'm sleeping. I'm sleeping because, you know, before the session, our life is very busy. But during session, we do nothing but sitting. So our life is really different.


Nothing. So, you become sleepy. And second and third day, you become tired, physically tired. Sometimes you have pain. So, the first three days are kind of struggling about pain, sleepiness, and sleep. But somehow, During five days, about the third day, something happens to our body and mind somehow. Our body and mind adjust itself to this kind of, you know, practice. We are just sitting all day. And physically it can be very pleasant. Not always. If our body is healthy, And if I don't have anything to worry about in my days, I'm pretty much free from that kind of day-to-day things.


Fourth day and fifth day, especially when I lived in Kyoto, at a small temple, and I was only a decent person. and people came to sit with me. Many people sat only one week. And Sunday evening, that means Friday, our session was always from Friday to Tuesday. So, Thursday is Sunday. Many people left. Because I was the only resident person, I had to do everything. I was a tenzo, I was a doshi, I was a work leader. I had to take care of everything. But when people leave, I'm released from that kind of responsibility also. And sometimes, Monday and Tuesday, I sat by myself, alone.


And when people left, Sunday evening, they said, I'm sorry, I have to go. But I didn't say it to those people, but in my mind, I said, I'm sorry, you missed the best part of the session. That means the fourth and fifth day, the struggle is ceased, and I'm tired enough So I don't have energy to think so much. And my body is adjusted in just sitting in peaceful and quiet practice. And if it's not too cold or too hot, like in the spring or fall, it's very pleasant. Sometimes I experienced there's no thought come up at all.


I mean, I don't sleep, but I'm sitting and I wait, but no thought come up. And one period of period really showed sometimes I didn't want to stand up to do kinhin. Even doing kinhin feels like a distraction. condition is possible. There is no thought at all. Then I talk about this kind of experience to a person who practices Koan Zen. The person asked me, why don't you say you have enlightenment experience? I said, I don't think that is enlightenment experience at all. a few videos, or it might last half a day.


At least when session is over, I have to return to normal life using sleep thinking, discriminating mind. So something conditioned is not enlightened. Nirvana is a bad condition. So such condition is possible. Sometimes no thought comes up, and I don't sleep. I was not sleeping anymore, because for three days I struggled with sleeping. So I awake, and my body is pretty comfortable. It's a very peaceful and comfortable condition. If you have such a condition, you can enjoy it.


But we should not think that is enlightenment. That is a certain condition. What do you call it? Comfortable. Anyway, so, you know, if we practice for many years, you know, all different kind of experience we have, but all those are arising and perishing, including the condition there is no thought arising and no sleepiness. That means our life is changing, arising and perishing. And being peaceful is part of this arising and perishing.


So, I think what I'm talking with this feminine idea, practice doesn't, it is like a thing I'm dealing to neutral. And so thought, energy is still moving. So thoughts are still producing because the function of our mind or brain is producing thought. So thoughts are coming and going. But I don't think. It's a kind of strange thing. Thoughts are coming and going within our mind. But this is not my thinking because I put the gear into neutral. So this is not my thinking or my thought. clouds in the sky, somehow. You know, this upright sitting, or so, like the clouds come up, stay for a while, changing the shape, and disappear.


We don't control anything. Just keep the clouds come up, stay for a while, and go away. So, you know, it doesn't feel like the sky, gray sky. And within this sky, salt just comes out and goes away. We don't control it because we cannot control it. We cannot control the weather. Weather has something to do with the entire world. So we cannot control the weather only by nature. Because it's connected with the situation of entire universe. So far, what is most important is to keep this upright posture and letting go of thought. Letting go of thought means if we try to eliminate our thought, then that is not letting go of thought. We are fighting against the thought, trying to get rid of thought.


That is not what we do. But the important point is, you know, we are like an empty sky. So there is an authority called I, who tries to control my mind or my life. So to see this no self, to really see no self, I don't control arising and perishing, but we Actually, we become a part of arising and finishing, universal arising and finishing in our ego. Within this network of interdependent origination, when we sit, even we are sitting, we are still in this network, within this network. And actually, these five scatters are the same as the sorting in our Zazen.


Somehow, this appears, stays for a while within this network, and disappears. So, what is happening in our Zazen, and what is happening within this network of interdependent oscillations is the same thing. coming and going, arising and perishing. So our practice is simply being a part of this universal arising and perishing. That is what Jogen Zen meant. You know, we don't convey ourselves through mere dharmas. But mere dharmas come to us the self. and carry out the practice of Zen meditation through the self. That's the difference. So this difference in our Zen practice means to let go.


We don't work as I and control what is happening in my mind. Our responsibility in Zen is to keep this upright Please, through her nose, her abdominals, quiet, peaceful breathing, and keep her eyes open. Please. Is there a way, or is part of the intention of the not being an I also being able to extend that to our perception of others, so that when things arise this way, I guess, they also don't have an eye. And so there's a kind of, I don't know how to say, spaciousness, if we extend that to... You mean in our Zazen or in our day-to-day life?


Well, even in our Zazen, because we're not alone, The very fact that all these people are around us is why we're sitting. So is there a way to extend that, not I? I think the best thing is just be quiet. Just letting go. Keep letting go. There's no such thing as I as an owner and operator of this body and mind. is the separation between things happening and me. So, what our Zazen allows us to be is to go beyond this separation by letting go. So, I think letting go


in Uchiyama Roshi's expression, opening the hand of thought. I think it's the best practice to see there's no such fixed entity called I. That is my practice. If we have someone better practice, please let me know. Yes, my question goes in the same direction It's when we do work practice. What do you mean work practice? Just when things come. How would that be? When we have to act? Well, when we sit in the zendo, we can let go of everything. And it's safe to do so. But when we stand up from the zendo and get out of the zendo, we have to do something. And it's dangerous if you get hold of everything.


Actually, we cannot do anything without thinking. And thinking is what I'm supposed to do. And what is the best way to carry out this thing? In the case of, for example, to do work in the kitchen, The person's job is cutting vegetables. Just cut. If we have some other concern besides just cutting, we let go. But we have to know, you know, or someone asked yesterday about the rice and stone to clean the rice. We have to wholeheartedly make separation between rice and stone or other dust to offer the great best meal to the Sangha.


So we need such distinction or discrimination. And we wholeheartedly do it, really attentively should do it. But if within our mind, There are some other concerns, thinking about other things, and focus on what we are doing. So that is the difference between sitting practice and practice outside of the Zen dojo. Well, here we are. So I was talking about this person's question and his teacher's answer. And I said, this is the same question and answer between Bodhidharma and the second ancestor about the peace in our mind.


I return to Dogen's line here. Even though originally this is a question, but I think Dogen Zenji, he got this not as a question, but as a statement. That means arising and perishing never stop. And this is how things are. And that is OK. This is not a problem. Everything is impermanent, changing, that means arising and vanishing. And there is no fixed entity called Atman or self. In the case of human beings, no self, no fixed self. Or in each and every thing, there is no substance.


but things are all different elements getting together and stay like lightning for a while and stay like a table for a while, stay like a blackboard for a moment. This reality of impermanence and anarchy or no self or no substance That means emptiness. So by seeing emptiness of self and all beings, and just see everything as a movement or happening, then that is what the reality is, the reality of our life is. The point is we see that reality and we awaken to that reality. In order to awaken to, we have to become free from the dream.


Dream made by this me. We always make a story. And the story is always about me. And I try to, how can I make this story a happy ending? And that is okay, that is what we're supposed to do. But the important point is to see that it is a story. And this is more basic reality. So I started to comment on this statement. Last paragraph of page 3. Thus, arising and ceasing, or finishing, Don't stop, fujo, as I arise, as I. Conventionally, this is my arising.


All different kinds of elements get together and form this body and mind. Temporarily, this is shiwa. temporary or now, these five standards show up as me. What is that? I arise as I. The expression for this is ga. twice, ga ki that means self-aligned but this expression came from when dharmas get together or when dharmas align dharma doesn't say I align this is where ga ki or I align came from and when


Dharmas get together. It's alive as me, in case of Sho, and in case of you, you are Naraka. As a result of Dharmas, different Dharmas getting together, your body and mind live. And so, temporarily, this is me. So, I have to take care of these five skandhas. as a shohan. And because shohan is a priest, I have to take care of the side scandals in a way I can carry out what a priest is supposed to do. That is my practice as a kind of a conventional Now this type scanner is me, so I have to take care of this type scanner to function.


And yet another aspect. This suicide is really important. And in Shobo Genzo Zenki, Total Function, in the very beginning of Shobo Genzo Zenki, he said, the great way of Buddha, or Buddhas, when it is completely or perfectly contemplated, is liberation and manifestation. So these five skandhas manifest as shohak. And yet shohak is liberating from shohak. So as a reality, temporarily this is shohak. So this is manifestation, these five skandhas manifest as shohak.


So shohak, temporary shohak. It's not grasping, but it's there. And yet, at the same time, Shōhaku is liberated from being Shōhaku. And he's talking about, not the past, but he's talking about life and death in Shōhoku Genzo Zenkidō. And he said, life manifests itself as life, but at the same time, life is liberated from life. And death is the same. That means we are, as a collection of Dharma, we are a particular person, a particular being. But this particular being is liberated from that particularity. Here is, in a sense, another Zen expression, grasping and letting go. I temporarily grasp this five skandhas as shown.


a good speaker. But if I think I'm a Buddhist priest or I'm a teacher, that is a problem. I'm a teacher only when I teach. I'm not a teacher when I go back to my room and rest. When I'm in bed, I'm not a teacher. I'm not a Buddhist. I'm just one giving But we usually think, I am a teacher. Even when I drink beer, sometimes I think, I am a teacher. They have to respect me. That is a delusion. When I drink a little bit of beer, just a beer drinker. Is this the devil in your God? This ga-ki is the expression that appears in a bad mother's statement.


So self arising as a self, as in this case, a particular person. Did you say it's not good? I'm a teacher only when I teach, or I'm a teacher only when I meet with my students. This morning you and I met on the stairs, and you were above me on the stairs and I was below, and I waited for you because you're the teacher. You told me to go ahead, so I did. Then I felt guilty. for going ahead of you. No, it was simple. Then I thought, oh no, I'm walking ahead of him, and then I went. But then, you know, he told me to go, so I should but say no. It was very simple.


I was glad we kept it simple, and that I didn't hate him. To me, you know, Hassan woke up, he's fast. I'm going on second. And you are already on the middle of the steps. And I was still in the top. So it's not simple. So in Western psychology, there's an idea of unconscious. Unconscious. Unconscious, not conscious, not in our awareness. And then, depending on our experience, there are karmic formations that are lodged, that that are in our unconscious that are rigid, strong. So what is the liberation?


So those also manifest. They manifest in our interactions with other people and with things. I'm not sure what my question is. It has to do with liberation and manifestation and how that understanding meets this unconscious idea. Unconscious idea. Meets karmic formations that are lodged in the unconscious. Well, I'm not sure if I really understand your question. Yeah, I'm sorry. Saoki Kodoroshi said, if, for example, if a president of a company thinks he is a president, that is defined as a president of a company, the person should carry out the responsibilities as a president.


If the person thinks, I am this, then that is something else. Is this something to do with your question? Not that I understand. In contemporary psychology, it is known as role episodes. Role episodes. Role episodes. role is I accept him as teacher because I behave as a student and I accept you as father because I behave as a child I accept you as priest because you are follower so you get in and out of different roles and at different roles you interact with the other persons so you get in as for instance it is very common for every person to be now you are the mother because you are in that role Now you are the student because you are in that role. We are now in one role here and he's in another role here.


So this is the role episodes that in theater. We often identify myself as a teacher for certain roles. And I expect other people to treat me as a teacher or king or president or something. I want to know storehouse consciousness. That's something to do with thieves. Storehouse consciousness. Is that something we have a sort of a box of? Yeah, I know what storehouse consciousness is. Storehouse consciousness is the terms used in the yoga school and they I think there are eight layers of consciousness.


The first five is consciousness caused by our five sense organs, i.e. ear, nose, tongue, and body. And the sixth is mind, usually thinking mind. And the seventh is called manas. or in English, sometimes translated as ego consciousness. And eighth is called araya in Sanskrit. Araya consciousness. And araya, the meaning of araya in a storehouse, a storage. And within this storage, all the experiences I had in the past are stored. real terms as a sin. So this is our karma.


All my experience are spoiled as karma, whether good or bad. And this seventh consciousness, ego consciousness, grasps this as sin. grasping. And this ego consciousness controls those first six consciousnesses. So when those five consciousnesses, or five sense organs meet certain object, Ego-consciousness is working. And depending upon what is stored in here, the perception and view and judgment about this object is different.


So each one of us has different things stored in our higher consciousness. If we see the same thing, our view, judgment, or perception are different. That is the theory of Yomachara school. And... What was... What did you try to say? Well, I thought it might contain something, the unconscious. That means the seeds stored in the another consciousness? Maybe. Well, I thought it might address these questions. Is that just your return that doesn't apply to the other schools? Yeah, this is a very basic teaching of Yohan Chara School. And this idea of araya consciousness is combined with Tathagatagarbha in the awakening of faith.


So, the theory of awakening of faith is a kind of a combination, called Yogacara. And also, as a very basic teaching of all Mahayana Buddhism, Yogacara is often studied. So most of Buddhist teachers know this idea. It's a very basic teaching in Mahayana Buddhism. Please. It would be interesting to know also Dogen's attitude to this teaching about the thought of consciousness. Dogen almost never used terms or vocabulary of his teaching.


But if we interpret what he's saying, using this kind of theory. Those are serious things. We are sitting. There is no object outside of ourselves. But within this mind, things are happening. That came from our consciousness. Those become this part of sitting object. So as far as, you know, this araya consciousness is working, and manas consciousness is working, you know, those things are coming and going. I think that is what it means. So that is manifestation? That is manifestation? It's happening. So then the liberation?


An important point in your Yogacara teaching is this araya consciousness is eternal. That means it's always changing, moment by moment. And the famous analogy used in Hideo Uchida's school is this arya consciousness is like a waterfall. When there's a certain depth of the height in the land, and water comes from this way, somehow the water goes down. And this is a waterfall. We see outside, this waterhole is existing, but actually there's no same water flow again. It's only one tiny thing. But when we see, it looks like a continuation, but it's always changing, always new.


At that time, even though we have many bad karmas, and all those bad karmas are stored in our arya consciousness, still, according to Yogacara teachings, still this arya consciousness is neither good nor bad. It's neutral. So, even though Even if we do so many things and I think I'm a good person, a great person, that is illusion. Either reality or present moment, either good or bad. But our action can be good or harmful or wholesome or unwholesome. So wholesome and unwholesome, good and bad, can be said only our activity, our actions.


We cannot say the person who has a lot of, you know, seeds from harmful actions are bad person. That is very important point of yoga channel teaching. That means we can change. Even though there are a lot of harmful or unwholesome experiences I had, still I can change. So at present condition, I am neutral. Whether I did many harmful things or even I did some very good or beneficial things, I can say I'm a great person. movement. So as a current condition we are always neutral, always fresh, always new. So there is always a possibility to change.


That is another meaning of liberation. Liberation. Manifestation and liberation. Here we are. Anyways, even when we are sitting, things are always arising and perishing. That is what Bhogen Rinpoche is saying here. And there's no way only our brain, our mind, stops moving. So it's kind of, it's matter of nature. arising and perishing within our mind. If we think that the content of our thought is true, therefore grasp it and try to do that thing, then the gear is not neutral anymore and we do something and we make karma.


So according to Dogen, Does that arising and ceasing seem to calm when he's at the bottom of the ocean? And so that's where he would find consistency. I think so. Even though the surface of our mind is still waving, but because we don't move based on those waves or flood, we are sitting on the very peaceful ground. So this garden itself is very peaceful and stable. But it's not lifeless. It's still moving. I think that is not an image, but And from that side, he called this a dead body.


Dead body. In the next section in this text, he discusses about dead body in the great ocean. This letting, when we sit and letting go in this island, one sentence. Let me continue. Entrusting it to them, we should assume this thing don't stop. I have a question about this translation. If I translate, it might be something like, Because this sentence is not clear to me, this English sentence.


I think what Tsukube is saying is something like, letting it be. Letting it be means give this to that. And it's not clear what is this it. Letting it be. We should disarm, disarm? I don't know where this pasyu comes from. Pasyu means J-sangha. The word we use here is benpo. Ben, this Ben is a similar Chinese character with Ben in Vendoma.


Ben in Vendoma is a little different. This is Ben in Vendoma. And this Ben is almost the same, but this part is different. This part means strength or energy, chikara. And in this kanji, this part is sword. Sword? Knife. Knife. That means to cut. So in the case of bendo, ben in bendo, what this means, we put our entire strength or energy into atomiya-don, in this case. When this part is thrown, or a knife, to make the cut into two pieces, and make distinction, so make clear distinction.


In fact, it's very easy. So we have to make a distinction between this and that. And this core is the same core that appeared yesterday. This disappeared in a conversation between a monk and a soldier, and the monk asked, then I fell down on the earth. What to do? And the soldier said, accept it, then it's good. That quote, same one. So this means to accept or affirm So denko, I think, as a compound, means to make distinction, clearly understand the difference, and affirm that thing.


And that thing means the same thing. It means not stopping. So arising and finishing is not stopping. person says. So we should clearly understand and affirm or accept that saying and let it be or living with to something, living to something, to it. I don't really understand but probably this means not lead to this monk's saying or words, but to this arising and perishing itself. Leaving it, leaving arising and perishing, just arising and perishing. I'm sorry, I don't know where you are in the camp.


Can you... I think there are one or two variations in the versions that I've printed out here. I think there are one or two phrases that have changed from the version you have printed out. So this is near the top of the second page. We should let it be and pursue this saying, don't stop. Do other people know their way out? So in this sentence, Patogon's saying is, leave it as it is, means arising and perishing left, arising and perishing, just arise and perish. So that means, not really the same, but we should depend on that reality, reality of arising and perishing itself, and we clearly discern and affirm or accept this bar not stopping for arising and perishing.


And the next sentence, it cut off or continues when arising and ceasing don't stop as the vital artery of their buddhas and ancestors. This is also a difficult sentence. This kīmetsu fujō, arising, perishing, not stopping. This is the word of the monk about the reality of life. Things are coming and going, arising and perishing. He is saying we should accept this.


In the previous sentence, he said we should accept this affirmation. and make this as the vital artery of the buddhas and ancestors. That means things are coming and going, arising and perishing, is buddhas-life. This is exactly the same with the factogen set in Shogun or Shoji. Shoji is life and death. Life and death. And Bodhidharma said, life and death together as one thing is Buddha's life. Life and death is Buddha's life. Being born, living and dying is Buddha's life. That means impermanence, always changing, arising and perishing, that is Buddha's life. And cut off or continues.


Cut off and continue is a phrase. Key and mess. Key and mess doesn't stop. This is a kind of interesting statement. Arising is always arising. And perishing is always perishing. And arising and perishing never stop. That means there's something which doesn't change. That is movement, arising and depletion. So there's a contradiction. That means impermanence is permanent. Impermanence never changes. If impermanence is impermanent, then it means that sometimes something is permanent. That is strange. So this impermanence, always coming and going, arising and perishing, living and dying.


This change is Buddha's life. So even Buddha's life is arising and perishing. This came from the Lord Buddha's chapter of wrote a sutra entitled, Buddha's Life's Path. Buddha's life is eternal, permanent, eternal. And yet, Buddha, intentionally, Shakyamuni Buddha intentionally showed passing away. In order to show us, show the people, the reality of impermanence, he dies, eternal, eternal. But actually his life is permanent, or eternal, eternal, eternal. So here is a contradiction.


Shakyamuni Buddha lived for 18 years or so and passed away. So he was born, stayed for a while, and died. And yet Buddha's life continues, eternal. So here is the contradiction. But this contradiction is really important. That means impermanence is permanence. But if we have some idea of permanence, and think impermanence is permanence, then we make a mistake. Anyway, That means Buddha's life continues. In Shakyamuni Buddha's pastimes, his disciples continued to practice, and according to Zen tradition, Maha Kasyapa received the mind-sleeve, his Dharma, and continued to practice and fell back


Mahapashabha to Ananda. So each person is impermanent, but that is the way the Dharma continues. So impermanence means arising, staying forever and perishing. Secondly, as a person, impermanent. And Mahapashabha as a person, Rupa Kaya in Burma. But somehow look, the Dharma continues by generation after generation by the people who are born, live and die. This is how things are, things continue. That is what this means. A cut-off or continues.


So if we only think Shakyamuni as a person, then Shakyamuni has his life start over. But his dharma is continued by Mahakasyapa and other people. So, Mahakasyapa is continued as Ananda. And from Ananda there are Shonanashi and the next generation. And Dogen Zenji expressed this continuation through impermanence or cutting off. Each person is impermanent, and yet they are continued. using the expression katto. Do you know katto? Both katsu and toto.


Katsu. Katsu is kuzu. You know, a plant, vine, kuzu. Kuzu really has a bad name in the south. The vine came from Japan. And the hemp killed many trees. It was too strong. Anyway, both katsu and to is Fuji. Fuji is wisteria. So both katsu and tsuki are vines. And usually this word katsu-to is used in a negative meaning. That means entanglement. Within human relations, there is some entanglement, love and hatred together.


Somehow we cannot separate. That is why it is called katsu-to. But Dogen Zen uses this word, kato, in a very positive way. That means, in Shakyamuni Buddha's awakening, somehow, Mahakasyapa's awakening entangled, and Ananda's awakening entangled. So the person is impermanent. But this awakening continues as a binding with each other, and continues. That is what he is saying here. Each thing is arising and perishing, so it is impermanent. But some of these impermanent things continue. So this is the same as the waves.


One thing appears, stays for a while, disappears. But somehow waves come and continue, move. If we see other movement by generation after generation, it continues. Even though it continues, if we take a closer look at all, And this is the same as our story, it continues. But each moment is independent. There are two sides. Moment by moment, or person by person, or each day are independent. Think, arise, stay from my page. But there are some I think there is one way of viewing this reality of impermanence as continuation.


Does it make sense? And this is how Buddha's life has been transmitted. So, you know, Dogen Zenji is talking about thinking, thought coming and going within ourselves. how brotherhood must be continuously transmitted. So he goes everywhere. We have to see what he's writing from those different perspectives. Let me finish this. Maybe not. Only one sentence, one very short sentence.


When arising and ceasing, don't stop. Is whose arising and ceasing? Is whose arising and ceasing? Is the answer of Kiganto to this question. So, the fact of interpreting This is not a question. So Rassam, the disciple, and the teacher express the same reality. And for the Chinese, this fool's arising and perishing So, of course, as a translation, a fool's arising and location is a correct translation.


But still, if we see the characters in the way Togen plays with words, This there, this, and who are two sides of one layer. This is shohaku, and yet this is not shohaku. This one thing can be called this or shohaku, and only say who means it's not shohaku. It's shohaku, and yet it's not shohaku. So there is manifestation. and who is the relation. And both are there. And that thing, both manifestation and relation, is arising. I think that is how Logan Zenjin read this very short sentence only in four Chinese characters.


This is kind of grasping, and who is letting go. And that is a two-sided one thing. And that something, which can be this and also at the same time who, is arising and perishing. These things happen as our life. Thank you very much.