Good morning, everyone. During this community retreat, I continue to talk on this book, Opening the Hand of Thought. Today I start page 33, second paragraph of page 33. Let me read the paragraph. From the standpoint of Western thought, where everything must be defined rationally, a reality that goes beyond definition is nonsense and utterly impossible.

[01:03]

But from the point of view of Zen practice, the very power that goes beyond just thinking and creating definitions with words must be the reality of life itself. D.T. Suzuki wrote about spirituality, as what transcends or includes all dichotomies. This world of spirituality opens up only when we actually practice the reality of life that transcends rationalism. So in this section Ucchama Roshi has been discussing about the meaning of this zazen practice, and he said to practice zazen is to enter the world of practice, of reality of life, and that reality of life is beyond thinking.

[02:21]

and he has been discussing there are two ways to deviate from practicing, directly practicing this reality of life. And one way is our day-to-day self-centered way of doing things. And second way is to think rationally and make a concept. And using those concepts, thinking in a discriminating and logical way. That is how Western philosophy, according to Chemrush, Western philosophy and also scientific way of thinking. And then he said, in Buddhism, this reality beyond those two ways of viewing things or world of thinking is considered to be the true reality or reality of all beings.

[03:41]

This reality of all beings is, as he said in the previous paragraph, is something we need to experience, not a way of thinking. And he really discussed about the existentialism, And what he said in the beginning of this paragraph is a kind of a repetition, even though from the Western way of rational thinking, this, you know, the reality beyond thinking is, he said, nonsense and utterly impossible, because the reality beyond thinking cannot be thought. So if everything should be, you know, within thinking, rational way, then this something beyond thinking cannot be the object of thinking.

[05:00]

So it's kind of nonsense. But In the middle of the 20th century, this reality beyond thinking became kind of attractive for Western people. I think one way is through existentialism, another way is people started to realize the limitation of thinking and also limitation of you know, scientific and technological, therefore industrial way of, you know, development and the kind of materialism or materialistic civilization. When I was a

[06:03]

The basic information I received from the entire Japanese education system is that this world is getting better. because of this rational way of thinking that is beyond superstition or superstitious religions, and also the scientific way of doing things and technology. If we continue to make effort in this way, then all the problems we have will be resolved and we will be free from all difficulties we had. That was a very, you know, optimistic idea, but that was a message I received. When I was a kid, that means in the 50s.

[07:09]

But after 60s, it changed. People started to find that way of viewing things and that way of life to make everything more and more convenient and enjoyable. and become wealthy, that way of life is based on not only a relational way of thinking but a desire. So people started to think that way of life is not really a healthy way of life. So I think people started to find alternative way of life. In this country, in the 50s, the so-called Beatle generations and the Hippie generations started to find something else, and they found Buddhism or Zen or meditation.

[08:18]

practice from different tradition of Buddhism. That was a kind of a beginning of Buddhism or Zen practice in this country, or not only in this country, but in the West, I think. And in this paragraph, Uchimura referred to D.T. Suzuki, And D. T. Suzuki was actually the pioneer of introducing Zen to the West. So I'd like to a little bit talk about this person, D. T. Suzuki. He He was born in 1870 in Kanazawa.

[09:28]

And according to his biography, his father was a medicine, a doctor. And in the end of Edo period and beginning of Meiji period, to be a doctor means to be one kind of very well-educated people. Some of the doctors studied Western medicine. In the Edo period, only place Japanese people could study Western civilization was in Nagasaki, where only one small island outside of the port of Nagasaki called Dejima. Only people from Holland or Dutch

[10:33]

were allowed to visit Japan and do some trading. And that was only a kind of a window of Western civilization for Japanese people. Since early 17th century, that means 1600, Before that means the beginning of Tokugawa or Edo Shogunate government started, the government closed the country to the west. Because before that, from the 15th century, Western people like Portuguese and Spanish, you know, came to Japan. And Christianity became really, not so much, but really became popular, especially in the cities like Kyoto and some cities in Kyushu.

[11:40]

But the rulers of Japan had not a rumor, but news that Christianity, at that time Catholic missionary, is a part of the, you know, what do you call it, strategy of Western European countries to make those places colonies. And that was kind of true. So that's why they... banned Christianity and closed the country against the European countries. And only Dutch or Holland was allowed to continue because Holland was not a Catholic. It's a Protestant. So they thought they are relatively secure.

[12:46]

LAUGHTER And it lasts almost 300 years, until the end of 19th century. So during that period, people who want to study something about Europe, they had to go to this small island in Nagasaki. And only part of the studies they could was medicine. So doctors could study Western medicine. And it seems D.T. Seleucid's father was one of that kind of doctors, so he was a very well-educated person. He knew something about Europe, and he also studied Confucianism and many other things.

[13:51]

But his father died when D.T. Suzuki was very young. So he said he had to stop going to school. But he had elder brothers who are already grown up, helped him to continue to study at schools. And it said, you know, when he was a middle school student, one of his schoolmates was Nishida Kitaro. or Kitaro, Kitaro is his personal name, Nishida is his family name. So D.T. Suzuki and Nishida Kitaro were very close friends since he was a teenager.

[14:56]

And this person went to Kyoto University and he became a very well-known philosopher. As I said last time, Japanese philosophers did was studying Western philosophies and translate and introduce which philosopher said this and that. And they never created their own philosophy. But this person, Nishida Kitaro, was only, I think, still considered only one Japanese philosophy, which created his own system of philosophies. And both Nishida Kitaro and Suzuki Daisetsu, D.T. Suzuki, practice Rinzai Zen. So their philosophy is influenced by Rinzai Zen. Anyway, Nishida went to Kyoto and Kyoto University, but D.T.

[16:03]

Suzuki went to Tokyo University. Tokyo University and Kyoto University are two best universities in Japan at that time. Still today, even today, these are two most prestigious universities. So they are kind of a... But while he was a university student, he started to practice Zen with Rinzai Zen Master, whose name was Kosen Imakita. He was the abbot of in Kamakura. Kamakura was a capital city in the 13th, 14th century, while lived.

[17:08]

And this Rinzai Zen Monastery, Engakuji, was founded a little bit after Dogen Zenji's death by one of the, not a shogun, but shogun's, what is it called, assistant, named Hojo Tokimune, but actually that assistant had actual political power. And then he established this Engakuji. He invited a Chinese Zen master whose name was Mugaku Sogen. So D.T. Suzuki started practicing with this tradition of Rinzai-shu. Rinzai-shu is not like Soto-shu.

[18:21]

In Soto-shu, Dogen Zenji was only one founder. Even though there are so many lineages, heiji and sojiji are two separate, almost two separate sub-schools, but both are from Dogen Zenji. But in the case of Rinzai Zen, there are many lineages. of the Chinese masters who came to Japan, and also Japanese masters who went to China and transmitted their own teachers' lineage. And there are 24 different lineages, and each lineage has its own main monastery. In Soto, Eheji and Sozeji are only two main monasteries. But in Rinzai, there are more than 20 main monasteries, and they are independent of each other.

[19:25]

So the system of Rinzai school and Sotoshu are a little bit different. Anyway, this Kosen Imakita was brilliant, the master, but a few years after D.T. Suzuki started to practice with this teacher, this teacher died. And his successor was Shaku Soen. This was the first Japanese Zen master who visited the United States in 1893, when the World Parliament of Religions was held in Chicago. So that time, Daisetsu Suzuki was 23.

[20:42]

But it is said, I'm not sure I know or not, his, you know, Syakusouen's presentation at that parliament was translated into English by Daisetsu Suzuki, even though he was still very young, university, maybe he finished university. So he was a very brilliant person and he was very good at English. And then Shakyamuni Soen was also a very unique person as a Japanese Zen master. I think after he finished training and received Inca in Rinzai Tradition, he was still very young, in his middle 20s, he decided to go to university because he thought, you know, education in the Western way is from that time necessary even to study and teach there.

[21:54]

So he was the first Zen master who went to university. And after he finished university, He went to Thailand, Thailand or Salem, probably Salem means Sri Lanka, to study and practice Theravada Buddhism. He practiced there for a few years. So Shakyamuni Soen was at that time a very unique person who studied the Western way of education, and also he didn't stay only within Zen tradition, but he tried to understand and experience the Theravada tradition also. So he was a kind of very progressive person. When Saksen came to this country, he met one person.

[23:01]

I forget his name. What's his name? Paul Kailas, I don't know the spelling, a person whose name was Paul Kailas. He was a kind of a scholar, and he wanted to translate Chinese classics to English. And this person, Paul, asked Shaksoyen to send... an assistant, young people who could help this person to translate Chinese classics to English. And Shakusouin recommended Daisetsu Suzuki to come to this country. So he came to this country in 1897. And he stayed in this country until 1907 or so.

[24:17]

And he went to England and went back to Japan in So he was outside of Japan for 12 years. And during this time he translated Daijo Kishindron. Daijo Kishindron is the awakening of faith in Mahayana. And he also wrote a book on the Mahayana teachings. And he went back to Japan. That time he was 33 years old. And he became a teacher at Gakushuin University. He taught English. He was at that university until 1921.

[25:21]

So during this time, he was 51. Until this time, he was an English teacher. He was not a Buddhist scholar. But in this year, he became a professor at Otani University. in Kyoto, and this Otani University is a Pure Land Buddhist University, you know, same as Komazawa is a Soto Zen Buddhist University. Pure Land Buddhism, especially Jodo Shinshu, established this university to educate their own priests. So after he was 50, he started to teach Buddhism. And he lived until 1966, so more than 40 years.

[26:28]

he was a scholar. So when he was young, he practiced Rinzai Zen as a lay practitioner. And it said before he came to this country in 1997, he had a kensho experience. So he had some enlightenment experience. But after he started to teach Otani University, he studied Zen. He studied history, especially history of Chinese Zen, early histories, from Bodhidharma until Sixth Ancestor. And also he studied many different aspects of Zen. So he was a Zen scholar. but not only Zen, but he also studied Pure Land Buddhism.

[27:44]

And altogether he wrote more than 100 books in Japanese. And according to the list of the books he wrote, he wrote about 30 books in English. So altogether he wrote 130 books in both Japanese and English. So he was really a great scholar. But probably in this country he was known only as a Zen teacher who introduced Zen from the East to the West. But Zen was not the only thing he studied. So he was really an important person who introduced Zen Buddhism to the West. But in Japan, he and his friend Nishida were considered as a kind of a founder of a school named Kyoto School.

[29:11]

Nishida's philosophy and Suzuki's Zen study are kind of combined, because both D.T. Suzuki and Nishida Kitaro were very respected people. especially after the World War II, that means after 1945, at that time D.T. Suzuki was more than 75, I think. And, you know, Nishida's students and D.T. Suzuki's students become very influential after the World War II. And one of the books D. T. Suzuki wrote in 1944 was called Nihonteki Reisui in Japanese.

[30:20]

nihonteki rei sei. This is a book, but I don't think this is translated into English. Nihonteki means Japanese, rei sei means spirituality. Rei means spirit or spiritual, and sei is nature. same say as, same say, same kanji as us in Buddha nature. Nature, so spiritual nature of us, this is translated as spirituality. Or we should say, this Japanese word, reisei, is a translation of English word spirituality. And in this book he discussed about what is spirituality.

[31:32]

So this word, spirituality, is a kind of a new word for Japanese readers. And so he had to explain what this spirituality means. And he said spirituality is different from mentality. Mentality or function of mind, thinking mind, is opposite of material, material and mental. Or this can be called subject and object. When he used this word, mind and material, I think he's thinking about materialism and idealism. That was a very big issue in the 20th century, even politically. These are important issues.

[32:37]

And in order to go beyond this materialism and idealism, this is the key. You try to introduce this idea, this way that this spirituality goes beyond this dichotomy. between mind and matter, and subject and object. This spirituality goes beyond or is a basis of these two separations, mind and matter, or other philosophies, materialism and idealism. That wasn't necessary in Japan after the World War II, because Japan was influenced both by the Soviet Union and the United States.

[33:39]

And Japanese society was kind of separated into two parts. One is... communist or socialist. Another is a capitalist, you know, being familiar with the United States. And they are politically, they are fighting. They had conflict. And so some people thought they need something beyond or include or embrace both. Probably that is why he started to use this word spirituality. That is before separation of these two or beyond materialism and idealism. And this idea, philosophical idea, is again, you know, combined with Zen.

[34:46]

Of course, you know, Ditya Sukhita's teaching came from Zen, and Nishida's philosophy was also based on Zen. We should say Rinzai Zen. And that is considered after the World War II in Japan, so-called Zen. So Uchigami Roshi mentioned D.T. Suzuki here because many of Japanese people thought that is Zen in Japan at that time. And as I said last week, last Sunday, existentialism and Zen was combined. And Nishida's and D.T. Suzuki's teaching is really Zen. But Nishida's philosophy and Zen was also combined. In this so-called Kyoto school, there are Nishida and D.T.

[35:53]

Suzuki students such as Hisamatsu Shinichi or Nishitani Keiji. They are all philosophers and professors of Kyoto University, but they practice also Rinzai Zen. And I don't know if Samatha's book was translated into English or not. But one of Mishtani's books was translated. The title in English is Religion and Nothingness. Maybe you heard the title, but not so many people read it, I think. Anyway, those are kind of Zen, you know, in Japan at that time.

[36:57]

When Uchimura wrote this book, that was early 70s, was still influential. But their philosophy was very difficult to understand, especially, you know, if you read D. T. Suzuki's books or even Nishida Kitaro's books, it's very difficult. Well, Dogen is difficult, but their books are also difficult. So, and also their D.T. Suzuki's way of writing is, of course, enlightenment or Kensho experience. It seems their teaching is something beyond ordinary people. Only enlightened people or only very intellectual people could understand. is a point which I want to say.

[38:00]

Zazen or this reality beyond thinking is nothing, it's not something mysterious. Only enlightened person can see or understand or experience. And also this is not, this is actual, ordinary reality. So it's not only for the very well-educated intellectual people, but everyone can practice and experience this reality beyond thinking. That is what Uchimurashi wants to say in this paragraph, referring to D. T. Suzuki's teachings. So what here, basically, what Ujjya Murasi is saying here is, you know, this reality beyond thinking is not so difficult thing.

[39:05]

It's not only for very educated or enlightened people. We are all living out that reality beyond thinking. To me, one interesting thing is D.T. Suzuki and Sawaki Kodo Roshi were contemporaries. As I said, Ritchie Suzuki lived in 1870 and died in 1966. So she lived for 95 years old, almost 96. And until... Right before his death, his mind was very clear and creative. So he continued to write books until he was 95 years old.

[40:08]

He's a really amazing person. And Sawaki Kodo Roshi was born in 1980, so 10 years younger than D.T. Suzuki. And he died 1965. So they died about the same time, one year, less than one year difference. So Sawaki Roshi was 85 years old. But these two people are very different, almost, you know, how can I say, opposite. You know, as I said, D.T. Suzuki went to Tokyo University and studied English and came to United States, so he was, you know, fluently speak and even write English, so he was very intellectual person, and he wrote, you know, more than 130 books.

[41:19]

But Sawaki Roshi was from very poor family. His father died when he was five, and his mother died... I forget which is first. But anyway, by the time he was eight, both of his parents died. And he was adopted by his uncle. And yet, after six months, the uncle died. So he was adopted again by this person, Sawaki Bunkichi. And this person was a gambler. And the person's wife, Sawaki Roshi's stepmother, was an ex-prostitute.

[42:24]

So his condition when he was young was very, negative. He had a very hard time when he was a kid. So he graduated only elementary school. After he finished elementary school, his step parents forced him to work as a lantern maker, and also as a watch over, you know, that place for gambling. And he didn't like that way of life. So he escaped from his family, his parents, and he went to a hedge when he was 16. So he only finished elementary school.

[43:36]

So he was not a leader at all. And after he became a monk, he was ordained. He was drafted, so he became a soldier, and he was a soldier for seven years. During the war between Japan and Russia, he was almost killed. So for seven years he couldn't study or practice at all. So he started to practice and study Buddhism again when he was 27. And he had no money, you know. So she studied Buddhism at a monastery, not Soto Zen monastery, but Hososhu Monastery.

[44:43]

Hososhu or Hososuku. Hososhu is the name of Japanese yoga channel school. And the name of the monastery was Horyuji. Horyuji is not one of them, but really the oldest Buddhist temple in Japan. It's located in Nara. So he studied yoga teaching. And he almost finished the course of this teaching to become the teacher within this school, but somehow he quit because he found that many people, many Buddhist priests or monks at that time, wanted to study and become scholars.

[45:51]

But not many people really practiced Dogen, Zenji, Shikantaza or were just sitting. So he quit studying Yogacara, and he asked about this Hososhu Monastery. His name was Saeki-jo-in, to allow him to stay in a half-broken temple near from this temple, Horyuji. And he started to sit by himself. And he sat every day, all day, by himself. And it said he only ate some rice and daikon and some beans. That was how he studied Buddhism and practiced Zen.

[46:55]

After that, when he had some questions about Dogen Zen practice, he visited a teacher whose name was Oka Sotan. Oka Sotan. So he was, Oka Sotan was kind of teacher of Sakyaroshi, but basically Sakyaroshi was a so-called self-made teacher, self-made Zen master. He practiced by himself in that way until he was about fifty. But when he was 50, he was invited to be the godo of Sojiji Monastery and also a professor at Komazawa University, even though he only finished elementary school. And after that, he became a famous Soto Zen teacher.

[47:59]

And he was a professor at Komazawa University for almost 30 years. But the difference between D.T. Suzuki and Sawaki Kodo Roshi is Sawaki Roshi never wrote any books. There are many books published with his name, but all those books are someone's transcription of his talk. So Sawaki Roshi never wrote anything by himself. And his books are not scholastic at all. You know, in 1965, I was 17 years old. I was a high school student, and I first read Uchiyama Roshi's book, and I became interested in Zen. At that time, those two people, D.T. Suzuki and Saki Roshi, are very popular Zen teachers, especially that was right after their death.

[49:05]

And so I read both D.T. Suzuki's book and Saki Roshi's book. I could find any of those books at any bookstores. And when I read D.T. Suzuki's book, I couldn't understand even one word. But Sakiroshi's, I didn't really understand Dogen's teaching or Dogen Zen, but his way of talking was very kind of funny, interesting and funny. He had a very good sense of humor. He never used philosophical or Buddhist technical terms. He talks like to ordinary people, because until he was 50, he was not a scholar, so his audience was always common lay people. So when I read both Daisetsu Suzuki's book and Saki Kodan Roshi's book, to me this is much more interesting and attractive.

[50:24]

So I stopped reading D.T. Suzuki. Until several years ago, I never read D.T. Suzuki. I thought the first impression of D.T. Suzuki's books to me was not possible to understand. But several years ago, I started to collect his English books. His English books and his Japanese books are a little different. His English books are more to me, maybe because my knowledge and understanding about Zen and Buddhism developed after 30 years. This thing is not so difficult to me anymore. His way of saying, of course, it's very difficult, different from Dogen's and Saki Roshi's and Uchiyama Roshi's, but what he is saying is very straightforward.

[51:31]

And also another difference is D.T. Suzuki was a scholar. and he was not a Zen master. So he said, the Zen is not really necessary to understand what he is writing or the truths that open up by Zen practice. And to me that is a very big difference. But then he wrote Training of the Zen Monk. He wrote, you know, the English version, training in the same book. Yeah, I know that book. Of course, I think that was the first one I bought. Anyway, when you read that, it's not about... Yeah, it's about what's going on in Austria. Yeah. Maybe, yeah.

[52:34]

That's why I said his Japanese books and English books are a little different. In Japanese books, he was really a scholar. But when he write in English, he was almost like a missionary of Zen to persuade people to practice Zen. That is kind of interesting point of D.T. Suzuki to me. Anyway, So Saki Roshi and D.T. Suzuki are contemporary but very different. And what Saki Roshi said is we should practice Zazen. So that is the reason Uchida Moroshi mentioned about D. T. Suzuki, this word, spirituality, what they say. And what he wants to say, referring to D. T. Suzuki, is

[53:37]

Our zazen or this reality beyond thinking is nothing special. It's a very ordinary reality. It's not only for the people who attend enlightenment or only people who are very well educated intellectual people like philosophers. But when we sit, we experience that reality beyond thinking. And Uchama Roshi was also an interesting person. I mean, his style of writing or explanation, because he studied Western philosophy when he was young, so if he wanted to write in philosophical or scholastic way, he could. But he found that when he wrote in that way, no one read his writings because he was not a professor.

[54:40]

He couldn't force his students to read what he wrote. So he found that unless he wrote in the way even common people could understand, no one read his writing because he had no authority. just a practitioner and poor monk. So he tried to find a writing style in which he could explain, you know, that reality beyond thinking without becoming so much intellectual like D.T. Suzuki or Nishida Kitaro or their students. Ucchama Rosyamana said he wrote an essay about his takahatsu practice. And part of that essay was translated by Tom Wright and appeared in the Buddha Dharma magazine a few years ago.

[55:46]

Oh, really? Anyway, Ucchan Roy wrote that essay in one evening. and he found the way he could write in that way. He also, same as Saukino, he didn't use Buddhist technical terms, but using his very concrete and interesting examples, he tried to say the same thing as those scholastic people trying to teach to the intellectual people. And this book is another example. Sometimes he, in order to show that what he is saying, because it's so kind of easy to understand, but he tried to show this came from his understanding and interpretation of very, you know,

[56:59]

traditional Buddhist teaching. Sometimes he introduced the words such as, you know, in the previous days page, he used the emptiness of reality, reality as it truly is, or beyond logos, or in expressive ta-ta-ta, or true emptiness. In Japanese, these are traditional Buddhist terms. And Uchiyama Roshi didn't use these words. But he expressed the same reality with his own very comprehensive and contemporary way of expressing using ordinary expressions. But in order to make sure, you know, leaders can see, you know, what he's writing with colloquial expression is the same as, you know, the traditional Buddhist technical term is trying to say.

[58:14]

That's why he, sometimes, you know, you introduce these technical terms. That is why his writing is not so scholastic or academic, and his way of explanation is very understandable. But to me, that style of expression has some difficulty or danger. That means because his writing is understandable, we think I understand it, I know it, but we don't really understand. So what I'm trying to do, when I talk on this kind of text by Uchiyamono Shih, I kind of translate his

[59:16]

unique expressions of Dharma using a colloquial language into a kind of a context of Buddhist teachings in a traditional way, or in the context of Dogen's teachings. When I was in Kyoto at the Kyoto Sozo Zen Center, we had a small dormitory and we had some visiting practitioners. When they asked for something to read, I introduced my translation of Chama Roshi's. Then they read it in a few days, and they said, �What's next?� I understood it. That was a kind of a shock to me.

[60:22]

I had been trying to understand what he was saying, and it's so difficult. Within a few days they said, I understand this, what next? That's why I try to explain, you know, this is not such an easy teaching. Anyway, that is what I'm doing now. Then you read Uchiyomuro's texts like this or also, you know, refining your life. It's understandable, that is okay. But I hope people study also, you know, Dogen's teaching. That is not so easy. But that is a source of inspiration by, you know, people like Sakyos or Uchiyama Roshi.

[61:24]

So I hope, you know, American, not only American, but Western people study, you know, the teachings by Shakyamuni and Abhidharma at Mahayana and traditional Zen teachings and Dogen. And what is the reality Uchamalosha or Sakyarosa is trying to point out? And how you can express it in your own language? That is my wish. We have 20 more minutes. So I'd like to go next paragraph. Maybe I can, next few paragraphs are not difficult, so probably I can finish three or four more paragraphs.

[62:27]

About the middle of page 33, Is this reality of life, that transcend definitions, language, and thought, some mystical, esoteric world, deeply hidden somewhere, something we are unable to talk about or even imagine? No, of course not. since in actuality we are always living out the reality of life. So this is the point he wants to say in the teaching of such as D.T. Suzuki and Nishida Kitaro and their students, really difficult. So people tend to understand this is only for the special people.

[63:29]

But at least, in Uchiyama Roshi's point of view, this is really ordinary thing. All of us are living that reality beyond thinking. You put your hand... Next paragraph. I don't think I need to explain this. If you put your hand up to your heart, you can feel it beating steadily. It does not beat because you are thinking about making it beat. nor does it beat because of physiological or medical definitions. The hypothalamus must regulate your heartbeat, for example, but it is not the cause of your heart's activity.

[64:36]

As long as your heart is actually beating inside you, it is the reality of your life. A power beyond words and ideas is at work. It is this reality of your life, of your birth and death, not definition of them, that I want to investigate here. So he's talking about the reality of these five scandals. You know, all our entire body and mind, five skandhas, are actually working. And this work is not done because I think or because I control those things. Because we cannot control our heart and we cannot control our stomach.

[65:40]

with our thinking. Some part of our body, this is also, which Ambrosius said somewhere else, like our hands. We can use our hands, then I think I need this, I can put up this pair of glasses. I can use my hands, not completely but to a certain degree, but I cannot control our stomach or our heart or even our thinking. Even the function of our mind is beyond control of our thinking. So that actual energy, that function, or ujjambura, as you see, the force, life force, that allows both our body and mind to function, is this reality.

[66:54]

So this reality beyond thinking is not really beyond this world, something mysterious. beyond this world, and only thirteen spiritual people could find it. But we are always living within that reality beyond thinking. That is what Uche Maroshi wants to point out. And in our Zen, we settle down by letting go of this grasping, discriminating thinking. We settle down on that reality. that allow both our body and mind working. That is another way. You know, when D.T. Suzuki said, you know, spirituality is beyond subject-object, and subject or mind is doing its thinking and making definitions.

[67:55]

and making separations between self and others, or subject and object, in order to explain this separation and oneness. In order to explain this separation and oneness, our way of thinking has a limitation because our thinking is only part of it. So we cannot see this reality as a whole, as object. That's why, you know, the explanation, any explanation we try to make in our mind doesn't really work. That's why, you know, Nishida's philosophy ought to teach the kids, then teaching becomes, not only them, but even Dogen's teaching becomes so complicated. or the same as Nagarjuna's teaching becomes so full of contradiction and paradox.

[69:03]

because our mind is only part of this and tries to see the oneness of this reality, and our mind is part of that. So we cannot see this as an object because we cannot be outside of this. That is a basic problem for us, for our mind to explain and discuss about this total reality. So when we start to discuss or explain this total reality beyond this separation between subject and object, our way of thinking seems like idling. it doesn't really work.

[70:05]

That's why the philosophy and also Buddhist or Zen teaching becomes so much difficult to grasp with our usual logical way of thinking. But that reality itself is very ordinary, that we are living this reality twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, And our thinking is part of it. So we don't need to take this thinking out. But we need to, using our thinking, we need to understand thinking is not this reality. That is the basic problem. Of course. This is why things are like idling.

[71:09]

Our thinking is idling. Whatever word or concept or logic we use, somehow it doesn't reach this reality. That is a problem. But when we let go of thought, we are right there. That is what Uchamurashi wants to say here. Well, we have ten more minutes, so I'd like to finish one more paragraph. My breath is a little more under my control than my heart rate. I can take a few breaths by thinking about it. but it is completely impossible for me to be in constant conscious control of my breathing. It would be a terrible psychological problem to be afraid to go to sleep because I might forget to breathe so many times a minute during the night.

[72:23]

I go to sleep entrusting my breathing to the great power of life beyond my control. Again, though this is not a power I control, since it is really working inside of me, it is nothing other than the reality of my life. So this breathing is another example. we cannot control, but it's always working. So I don't think I need to explain this. So let me go next paragraph. Let us go a little further with the concrete realities of our lives. I was born Japanese, and perhaps you were born American.

[73:25]

This is not something we choose by our so-called will. And yet, in fact, I am Japanese, and you are what you are. This is the reality of life that transcends our own measurement and discretion. Also, I am a Buddhist priest living a life of the Zen practice in a certain temple in Kyoto, Japan. Is this way of life a way I choose by my own power? Yes, of course, in a certain sense, I did choose it. But where did I get the power to choose it? I cannot help but conclude that this choice too has been given life by a great power that transcends my own willpower and thought.

[74:35]

Whether you call it chance, fate, life itself, or the providence of God, So not only things happening within our body, like heart beating or breathing, but the way we live as, in my case, a Japanese or Buddhist. So he's questioning, you know, did I choose, can we choose to be born as a Japanese? And he said also he made choice to become a Buddhist monk or priest. But what this power or energy to make such a choice. And in order to make choice, we need to make discriminations. You know, which is better?

[75:39]

In order to make judgment, which is better, to become a monk or not to become a monk? You know, we have to make discrimination. What is the difference between this way of life and that way of life? So we have some way of, you know, making distinction. This is this, that is that, and which is better? Or... you know, we live, you know, in that way, making choice. Without making choice, we cannot do anything. So that's why we think, you know, our thinking and the way we make discrimination or distinction is important, and this is our life. But what Uche Moroshi wants to say is where this ability or capability to make distinction comes from, is this, you know, power or force, life force is given to us because we want it.

[76:47]

Was this our choice to have such ability or not? And of course not. So what he's saying is even our ability to make discrimination is a gift. from much larger power or life force. And that is what I'm always saying with drawing this Indra's net. We exist as a knot of this net of causes and conditions within time and space. And without the relationship with others, even one knot cannot appear or arise and stay and go away. So each and every knot can exist only as a connection or relationship with others.

[77:58]

But the way we think is we see this connection or network from this side. So when we think in this way, separation between subject and object, we only see this part of the network. And when we think only this network, that is what is happening. And in that sense, within certain limitation, pattern or model is valid. But even the ability to make such way of thinking using ability, using discrimination and concept is a gift from this entire network.

[79:03]

That is what he want to say. So he called this total function as a reality of life. And part of this reality of life, we have an ability to think and make discrimination. But often we think, you know, this is the owner of this person. That is the basic problem. If we don't cling to this small part of our life or small part of this network as me and this is the center of the world, then our ability to think or making discrimination is not harmful. But if we think this is the center of the world, we make our way of living upside down.

[80:08]

So what we do in our zazen practice, since our way of life or the way of thinking is upside down, we turn it around. That's all we do in our zazen. So our zazen is not kind of a special mystical way to view, you know, this reality beyond thinking like other object, because it's not possible. But we just settle down on this ground of interdependent origination. But in Buddhism we call this a network of interdependent ordination. And it's possible to name this in many different ways.

[81:12]

And he picked up something like chance, fate, life itself, or the providence of God. Each philosopher or thinker or religion may call this greater life, the life bigger than the self or thinking, with different names. And the final paragraph, I think we can finish this. Using our intellect to come up with some answer to this question, we can only come up with a one-sided or abstract answer by using certain expressions. This interdependent origination or network of interdependent origination is a Buddhist term. or providence of God is a Christian term.

[82:17]

Or we can use some more like a scientific term. But whatever name we use to refer to this thing, we kind of, how can I say, limit. And it become another concept. And yet we can't avoid it when we talk because I'm a Buddhist I have to use this Buddhist term terminology and Christian people can use Christian terms or philosophers can use philosophical terms but whatever terms or words has some limitation because it has some related with some position within this network So ultimately all we can say is that the reality of life is as it is, just as it is.

[83:26]

The reality of the life of the self is simply to live life just as it is. Self does not exist because I think about it or because I don't think about it, whether we think in this way or not think in this way, we are actually living that life beyond thinking. Either way, this life, universal and personal, is my life. The Zen is a way of truly putting this reality of life into practice. So when we practice the Zen, when we sit facing the wall and letting go, we don't use the word even the network of interdependent origination. When I try to talk about it, because I'm a Buddhist, I have to use the Buddhist term. So I use this, you know, interdependence. But you can use another word.

[84:32]

But whatever word we use, it has some limitation. But when we really sit and let go of even that kind of idea, even the reality of life or interconnectedness, that is what we do in our zazen. We are simply doing there as it is, whether we call it using Buddhist term or Christian term or scientific term. Whatever term is OK to use, but we need to understand that any term has its own limitation. It's 10.33, so today I talk on several telegraphs very fast.

[85:37]

I think it's a record. This is just a kind of a conclusion of what he has been discussing. So tomorrow I'd like to continue from next section. Any question or comment? You have something? The history is very helpful. Go ahead, Shakyamuni, the other main disciple in the United States was, of course, Sadat Yogi. Yes. And he did not, he understood it as far as I know, right?

[86:40]

He always appreciated it. But someone somewhere said that as far as communication between Surya and his two students, it was very little, so I thought he had a lot, but he, but then, I mean, you know, and he spoke, he did a lot with poetry. I don't know if you've read the stuff. I did a few. Yeah. It was very interesting. You would say things like, that's what you're saying. As it is here in America, why are we bothering with it? And also with your remarks about getting away from technical terms, that's very helpful, too. And I know that I . Yeah. But he also said the same thing, that when you're talking about .

[87:51]

It was one of them that's very smooth and very easy to read, and then he said, but the trouble is, he reads and he thinks, I got it. Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah. And another person who was kind of a pioneer of American Zen is Sokean Sasaki. He was not a disciple of Shaksoen, but he was a disciple of Shaku Sokats. Do you know this person? Yeah, I know this person. Sokats. This is also a very interesting person. He was a disciple of Shakyamuni Soen and he became a teacher of a group of lay practitioners named Ryo-mo-an.

[88:56]

Ryo-mo-an. Ryo means two or both, and mo is forget. So forgetting both or forgetting two or duality is the name of this group. This means duality of subject and object. And so he became head of the rei group, in the group, and this person came to this country, said 1906. No, this person, K, California, came to this country with 18 of his students, and he wanted to establish a Zen community in California.

[89:59]

And he purchased a land farm outside of, north of San Francisco, I think, with these groups. So he really wanted to establish a Zen community there. But it is said, and Soukei Ansazaki was one of the 18 students. even though they purchased a farm, they failed. In Soke and Sasaki's books, they are all intellectual people who are artists. Sasaki was an artist. He was a sculptor. All those people are very intellectual people. They didn't know how to grow vegetables. So their fund became failed. So Shaksot got moved to the city of San Francisco and opened the Zen door, but it didn't work.

[91:01]

So he went back to Japan in 1910. So his attempt to transplant Zen The community and the practice there in San Francisco had failed and all of them went back to Japan with Shakyamuni Sokatsu, except Sokeyan. After this, he lived in Seattle and moved to New York and founded first Zen Institute of America in New York. And his wife, her name, Ruth Sasaki, went to Japan and continued Soke and Sasaki's teaching. And from their group, one person, what his name, he had a Zen center in Maine, Walter Nowak.

[92:15]

He went to Japan and practiced at Daitokuji with the Roshi Zuigan Goto. And this Walter Nowak was the first American, or first Western, who received Inka from Japan. within Rinzai tradition. And he had a Zen center in Maine. It was a small Zen group. And when I lived in Massachusetts, I visited that group. It was fun. It was a nice place. And they built a Zen door with material they were given from the building used to be Dunkin' Donuts. Dunkin' Donuts. Donuts shop. But somehow Walter Nock was a musician. I think he was a pianist. So he quit teaching then and became a musician again. I'm sorry about that.

[93:17]

Yeah, so he quit. Pianist. I'm not sure. I visited the place in the middle of the 70s. At that time, he was there, but I heard he quit. So maybe in the 80s. I'm not sure if he's still alive or not. So from, you know, Jacques Sowen's, you know, dinners, you know, many important people as a kind of a pioneer of American Zen or Western Zen appeared even before Suzuki Shinryu Roshi came to San Francisco. But maybe the time was not ripe for this person, so they had to go back to Japan.

[94:20]

Well, more question or comment? Please. I was just wondering, Hojo-san, do you know how when Sawaki Roshi was practicing by himself at the temple, did he do takuhatsu to support himself? I don't know. In his biographies, it didn't say how he get food. Maybe someone donated the food. I don't think he regularly did takohatsu. So it said he didn't eat much. So even though he was in his mid-thirties, it said he looked like a 70-year-old person. So when he visited Oka Sotan, the roshi, Oka Sotan worried about his health because he was just sitting.

[95:35]

So extreme way of practice. That's why when Oka Sotan became the abbot of a big temple in Kyushu, Daijiji, he invited Sakirashi to be the teacher there. because Oka Sotan had already his own temple, so he couldn't go. So he invited Sawakinos to be the teacher there. And in Kumamoto, the name of the temple was Daijiji. Daijiji. This temple was founded by Kangan Yin, who was one of the Dogen Zenji's direct disciples. So this was a big temple. And according to Sawakiroshi's biographies, when he became a teacher, not an abbot, but a teacher at this temple, he found some group of people who wanted to practice with Sawakiroshi in his way, focused on sitting.

[96:53]

So first he found other people who want to practice in his way, until then. So I think he was about 40, he practiced by himself. So I really don't know how his practice was supported when he did it by himself. But it seems he didn't care. Any question? OK, thank you.

[97:37]

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