You know, you don't have to worry about the traffic because I have a voice to project, so why don't you, can you open up the window there and maybe you'll give it a good open? Is that better? Or that one? Is this one better than that one? And I'd like to just have people do the thing. You stand up. You ever wonder when you hear that chant, unsurpassed, penetrating, perfect dharma, so rare to run into, and now that I have the chance to hear it, and you think, in your chanting, that, now is this person really worried that chant is, is this person really going to teach me that, or am I supposed to believe that, or something like that?

[01:01]

That is not what the chant means, anyway. My goodness. What it means is that Buddhism is an unsurpassed, penetrating, perfect dharma, et cetera. And Buddhism is, you know, it's described as, you know, ultimately simple, totally simple, really obvious right there, easiest thing on earth. And as being incalculably difficult. So the shortcomings of the speaker or teacher will always be infinite. And you can't worry about that too much. It's just sort of like, well, this is the best we can do this morning. They're doing their best. I'm doing my best. And in that sort of imperfect situation is wherein Buddhist practice always lies in some terribly imperfect situation.

[02:17]

And the urge to perfect it, I guess, is unavoidable. We'll always try to, you know, be better students, and find better teachers, and have better zazen, and, you know, clean the place up. Get everything right angles, and make everything as perfect as possible. But, you know, frequently that just illuminates more rubbish, and decay, and confusion. Sometimes I look at Zen Center, and I see it like, remember the last scenes of Ben-Hur? Ben-Hur starts off in a beautiful mansion, you know, that his parents own, or something. It's, you know, they're full of servants, and riches, and they're happy, and they get along with the Romans, and everything's perfect.

[03:25]

And, you know, then through a series of accidents and misfortune, things get worse, and worse, and worse, until it ends up, you know, the guy's been a slave all these years. And he fought in the Coliseum, and he gets back home, and gosh, his mother and sister have leprosy, and the columns are all falling down, and it's all full of dust. And the servants have all gone, and there's no riches, and they're just, you know, just barely clinging on to life. But, also, so I look around Zen Center sometimes, and that's the way I see it. Just, you know, barely hanging on, and the columns are crumbling, and, you know, the vine is all grown over, and, you know, the servants have gone, and that sort of thing. Then I remember, ah, that in Ben-Hur is where they found the Christ, and were cured of their leprosy. And, so, any situation can always be looked at and seen for its imperfections.

[04:34]

And I can tell you that, you know, I don't know what you're thinking. Usually, when a person comes for the first time, or one of the first few times to a place like this, they think they've got a good take on it, you know, they'll sort of idealize it in their mind, and come back, and then it will represent something pure, and clean, and true, and hopeful, and all that. But, you know, as you get to know people a little better, then you start thinking more like, well, I'll just make the most of it and see if I can find anything worthwhile in there. Then, after a while, you start thinking, well, there must be something better than this. There must be some other place I can go that has, you know, somebody that will really zap me here, or something like that. But, I was here during the golden age, Zen Center, when the great, true, enlightened teacher, Suzuki Roshi, who is, without a doubt, the most popular person I ever met,

[05:39]

everybody loved him, all the people, people who didn't get along with each other, and uptight people, and loose people, no matter what they said, they'd all say something different, how they thought it ought to be, you know, they'd all just, were totally in love with Suzuki Roshi, so that had a sort of, it was like this mass love affair. And, we were all, you know, there was like, there weren't too many doubts or anything, because we were this venerable Japanese man, you know. But, in those days, I'd say, there was an equal amount of doubt, and complaining, and bickering, and things ought to be like this, and we should have more rules, or we should have less rules, or we shouldn't eat this type of food, or we should eat that type of food, and just, you know, endless amounts of complaining, and shortcomings, and people were constantly leaving because it wasn't good enough, and stuff like that.

[06:47]

So, that is one, that is something, I'm sorry, I can't do anything about it in that chant, can't rectify it, but in this imperfect situation, there are things that can be done, steps that can be taken to help illuminate your life and mind, and make you happier, and that sort of thing. And, you have to figure them all out and do them all yourself, and maybe something somebody says or does someday might encourage you or help you, but basically, it'll be, if there's any cause and result in it, it will be the result of your own efforts and your own practice, and not the result of the efforts and practice of somebody else.

[07:51]

One of the, just a few things I'd recommend, are, one is, like you, some people can get into something like Buddhist practice, and, you know, really get off on it, even if they're not enjoying it, you know, this idea that, if it hurts, it must be good for me. And, I think there's some truth in that, in that any phenomenon or any feeling, anything can inform you or can be inspiring or you can learn from, and that negative emotions and pain tend to, by their nature, not, it's something you don't want to be attached to,

[08:58]

so they lend themselves more sometimes to detachment and observation, because that's a way to be free of them. But, you can also be detached from, and it's your pleasant experiences, or neutral experiences, and the neutral ones are supposed to be the hardest to understand, in the most subtle realm to practice in, supposed to be the neutral realm. In, most, I'd say, most people, when they first get interested in practice, it's usually because of some sort of pain, or, you know, maybe some sort of intellectual inquiry, but pain is what really gets people interested. But after a while, I think it doesn't take too much for somebody to figure out that pleasure also is a phenomenon that can be observed,

[09:59]

can be detached from, you can detach from, but neutral states, you don't even know they're there, and for the Tibetans, that's very advanced practice, when you practice with neutral states. But, anyway, one thing I just wanted to say was, I think one of the common problems in Zen Center, and for people that come to Zen Center, is this idea that if it hurts, it's good for you, or a bad experience I learned from, I know it was horrible experience, but I'm so grateful I learned so much from it, it was so wonderful, and stuff like that. And I think you've got to be careful with that, because everything you think, and all the attitudes you have like that, are, you're programming yourself for the future, so you're programming your subconscious, and you're telling your subconscious that you want bad experience, so you can learn from it.

[11:07]

So, since, I imagine, without taking a poll, and if anybody said no, I don't know if I believe you, that principally what we all want here is pleasant states of mind, and one thing I think you can do, whether it's Buddhist or not, is just decide you want to have pleasant states of mind, and that if an unpleasant state of mind comes along, you'll be glad to turn it into a learning experience, but you don't need to have it in order to learn. And I think it's good to try to program yourself and guide yourself toward pleasant states of mind, and toward somewhat peaceful states of mind, you don't want to get catatonic, which is another occupational hazard meditation, but not too much around here. We don't have that problem so much anymore, but there have been times when you come in and it would just seem like some sort of movie,

[12:17]

people floating around, sort of serious, and you sort of want to knock on them and say hello, are you there, is anybody home? And I don't think you should feel that desiring pleasure, desiring pleasant states of mind, or physical pleasure, or something like that, is something wrong or un-Buddhist, but if you study Buddhism, if you study life, you might find that too much seeking of pleasure, or pleasant states of mind, sometimes can scorch your life and bring on unpleasant states of mind and unpleasant physical states. So you've really got to figure out for yourself how you balance all that out and see how it works.

[13:21]

I think basically what you do is just register intentions with yourself, it's like you just make it clear how you feel, and then go about your life. Now, another thing I would say that maybe is typified as Buddhist practice is that in going about your life, there's a difference between your practice being maybe spurred on by the thought of, you know, things don't have to be this bad, I don't have to have this much pain, I can be happy, which is a universal reason for practicing, you know, that sort of thing. So at that point, maybe you start studying a few things, maybe you read some books or you talk to fellow students or teachers or something,

[14:25]

and you might conclude at that point that this desire to be happy, as Buddha said, right before his great enlightenment, I can be happy. You know, I can be happy, that sort of thing. That's one of the stories. The desire to be happy is not what makes you happy, as I was saying a minute ago. So you can't be just obsessed with this desire to be happy. Then, pretty much, it seems to me you have to limit yourself in some ways. It isn't really limiting your happiness, it's just limiting your activity. And, of course, the great limiter here is zazen, where for some period of time, on a regular basis, you decide to not add anything, just see what's happening.

[15:31]

Just follow your breath, or basically what everybody does when they sit is, you know, follow their thoughts and discomforts. This and that, but there's little breakthroughs. There are definitely states of mind beyond just having wandering thoughts. So, sitting, though, limits you a great deal. And then, you know, you might decide there's some other things you want to limit. You might start off with a few gross ones, you know, like in the area of partying every night or taking lots of drugs and stuff like that. It's pretty, everybody knows that, that those sorts of things would wear you down and make you unhappy. But, I think there's another side. So, you limit your activity as much as you can. You always find these compulsive things taking you out of it, and you're fine,

[16:37]

and you get all wrapped up in guilt and doubt, this and that, and trying to calm this whole complex interaction of thoughts down. Then, really, all you can do at that point is just continue your life and just do the little things you're doing. There's really not much more to it than that. So, it's good to limit your activity so that it shows less, so that you can just watch it. It's not because simpler activity is superior, it's just that it's easier to watch, and it's easier not to get too caught up in it. So, you just watch it, do it, sit, and gee, there's really nothing else to it, that's it. There's really no belief system, and whatever belief systems there seem to be,

[17:39]

or guidelines, or suggestions, or this is what you should do, or this is the way it is, whatever sutra it came in, you always find the sutra that comes afterwards. Well, that was just an expedient teaching, that really doesn't exist, and there's no such thing as that. No matter what it is, in your body, you're going to practice all this, and go through all this endless suffering, and inwards, rebirths, and then you're going to attain it in your body. Inevitably, if you dedicate yourself to practice, it will escape the wheel forever. That sutra says, just kidding. That's just an expedient teaching, and you have to be a bodhisattva forever, you have to practice forever, you have to make an effort forever, there's no end to suffering, that sort of thing. But, if you don't like that, you can just stop with the sutra you like. So, I really think there should be, in our so-called practice, there should be joy, fun, right?

[18:54]

That's good. Buddha would never have allowed us to wear these horrible black robes. I mean, I wear these horrible black robes because, you know, that's what I was given. But, these horrible black robes were not horrible black robes in China. It's black, it's the color of life. There, people go, wow, this guy's wearing black, that's cool, that's being me. Here in America, it's the color of death, that is completely wrong, and I certainly hope someday we change that. In India, you know, the saffron, bright colors, let everybody know you're happy, and this is helping improve your life. And, especially among women, you don't have to be slaves to your husband and the family, you can quit that and join the order, and you won't have to have some evil mother-in-law beating you up all your life. And, young men, you won't have to pursue, you won't have to be slaves to, you know, making money and raising a family and all these things, all these cultural overlays and obligations.

[20:00]

These days, it's not quite like that. We're pretty much entirely a lay, we are entirely a lay religion, you know. All of us are caught up in the social interactions and obligations and this and that, but we're, it's a little freer in this country. There's probably a zillion times more distraction here than there ever was anywhere else, but I think that's always sort of infinite. But, the purpose of the saffron robes, you know, they'd get them, the idea was they'd get rags from, God, they'd get rags and tell you what, they used to carry dead people, they'd throw dead people in and they'd get rags out of the trash, and they'd wash them and then they'd sew them together like these, you can't see those little squares and everything, dye them saffron and, like, it was a color people would look at and say, wow, those are happy people, they're having a good time, I want to do that too.

[21:03]

And so, one of the things I hope Buddhism can emerge out of a lot of the Zen forms of Buddhism is, it's very hard to see that sort of message. Here it looks sort of like serious and dreary and, you know, if you get really serious and dreary you can understand yourself sort of thing. But, you know, I'm not saying that going around and having a lot of fun, we wouldn't want to be one of those smiling groups. Everybody walks out, I'm not going to name names, everybody walks out, you know how you got it? Everybody's smiling, you know, and, you know, you think you've really gotten something, and those things are probably good for you, but, you know, inevitably, short while later you'll find yourself reveling in some sort of glamor or something.

[22:05]

I thought I had it. So anyway, I don't think there's anything permanent to get here that would fall under any categories like that. So, but it's not just some sort of fun like, you know, playing in a playground, or something like that. And one of the types of, the sort of fun I think you have from practicing Buddhism is more like the joy of giving sort of thing. Like, one of the things about growing up is to learn to give, and experience joy in giving, and not just in receiving. And so Buddhist practice, I think, emphasizes giving, the joy of giving,

[23:09]

and I think a lot of that comes out of gratitude. Just gratitude for being alive, gratitude for having a mind and body, gratitude for having the opportunity to... Gratitude that it even occurred to you that, you know, there might be something more to life than just, you know, rambling thinking and pleasure and pains, or turning on, turning forever. Just, you know, the fact that you've got any thought like that means you have a very, very, it's a propitious, it's a very fortunate birth, very fortunate moment. You can feel, you know, like, we have all these incredible amounts of wealth, and friends, and share so much, and everything's so great. I mean, it's like, you know, all the people who've ever existed in all history, you know,

[24:11]

would say, wow, that's just exactly what I wish I'd had all my life. You've got all this, everything all set up, you know, all in front of you. Eh, you're lonely, you're just not, you know, what can I do today? This sort of thing, and I'm just, you know, so fucked up. It's, you know, there's just like no gratitude for all the wondrous material and spiritual gifts there are. So I think, you know, like, it's good at a point like that, to like consciously look at it and say, oh yeah, maybe I should be grateful. You know, and that sort of thought can actually lead to feeling grateful because gratitude, I think, is a honest, true response to any situation of existence. Maybe sometimes it's more difficult to find the gratitude, but, you know, like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes, I'm sure, you know. Oh my God, my children are dead and, you know, my business is bankrupt

[25:14]

and I've got a progressive nerve disease and, you know, on and on and on. A lot of people find themselves in situations like that. But finding gratitude, feeling gratitude in a situation like that can give you a real opportunity for practicing, understanding existence, helping others. I think the desire to help others or the intention to help others is very important, but I don't think it's good if you think about it a lot. I think, again, it's more something to register. So in Buddhism, a very universal thing about Buddhism is to vow to save all sentient beings. And, you know, maybe it's better to do that in a formal way, periodically, rather than grunting,

[26:20]

how can I help you, you know, all the time? Is there something that doesn't... Because in our tradition, we're told not to think about that, that we don't practice to help others, that we don't practice to help ourselves, that we practice the Buddhadharma for the Buddhadharma. And that just helps stop you from having some ironclad concepts there all the time that are in the way of just forgetting everything. But the vow, I think the vow to save all sentient beings is very important. If you get a vow in deep enough, it won't go away. And you don't have to believe in reincarnation to practice in Buddhism, but I was raised with reincarnation, so I think of it. And I think that, you know, I think I have a sort of traditional view of reincarnation.

[27:22]

It's just, you know, my God, you know, what am I going to turn into? I mean, we're constantly reincarnating now, you know, and it's very hard to control it, you know. It's just you've got the factors you have now, and they just keep turning into other things. And I think the pleasantness, unpleasantness of it, how much spiritual opportunity there is has a lot to do with sort of decisions you make minute to minute, especially in terms of how much pain or pleasure you have brought other beings. So that, I think the vow to save all sentient beings or a vow to infinitely benefit all other creatures, you can put yourself in there, is good karmic insurance. I would say that's an essential part of our practice,

[28:25]

but not like altruism, not thinking all the time, you know, we're constantly in an office to end this thing, but it is good to do things like that, work for soup kitchens and stuff, but that's, it's a little different. So, those are some of the things I was thinking as I took a shower to, you know, spiffy and clean, right here, and I think we are fortunate to have run into Buddhism, but, you know, it doesn't have to be Buddhism, but Buddhism is pretty plain, it's pretty free of things to get stuck on, looking into it, it's not that you really have to cling on to believing, give yourself up to this and that, that is no object,

[29:27]

but maybe Buddhism is giving because you really can't practice it unless you totally give yourself up, and it's probably harder than giving away all your wealth, or getting on smoking, things like that. When you think about, you know, again, think about giving, you have to watch out about going too far, it's better just to sort of, like I said, just sort of, you know, just sort of register that as an intention, and then see what happens without trying too hard, and trying too hard is when things get distorted, and Suzuki Roshi used to always warn us about trying to help other people, and as you get older you see all the things you've done to try to help,

[30:29]

maybe didn't help so much, or maybe they did, I don't know, I think about it, I did civil rights work, and was with SDS in the 60s, and worked with the nuclear freeze, and always, I'm sure I'll do other things like that, but, you know, you look back on it, and you think, did I help anything at all, has anybody helped, and you say, well, you know, I think the thing I'm gladdest about sometimes with all that stuff is, like it's fun to tell your, you think you can tell your grandkids, but there's nothing as worthless as that. And Buddhism, I feel the same way, you know, has anything I've ever done in Buddhism helped anybody, has it helped me, is there any benefit from it at all, and has there been any benefit from Buddhism at all, you know, it sort of comes and goes, it's the only religion I know of that predicts that,

[31:32]

that's a good thing, I always liked that about Buddhism, you know, most religions say, well, little by little, everybody will realize that we're the true religion, and then the ones that didn't, you know, on the day of judgment, or whatever, when God comes down, even the Mormons have a date, and it's very soon, I don't know when it is, you know, they have a house built for God, but in Buddhism it says, well, it'll be pretty good for a while, it'll be real good for a while, and then it'll be so-so, and then it'll just be this, totally shit, and then it'll completely disappear, and then it'll come, it'll arise again, but the stage in Buddhism is so big, because there is the concept of constant rebirth, so that it's an infinite stage, they say it two ways, sometimes they'll say, you know,

[32:34]

it'll take you 60 trillion kalpas to ever have the opportunity again to hear the Dharma, and then they'll say, oh, this is, the fact that you're hearing the Dharma now means that you know you've been hearing it in past lifetimes, you're going to continue to hear it in every single lifetime, we'll all be practicing together all the time, you'll believe anything they tell you. Just look and see what you think for yourself, and come back to Zen Center sometime, share your wisdom with us, and say hello. Okay? Okay? May our intention be clear and clear, never leaving, and bliss.

[33:31]

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