Good morning, everyone. This morning I'd like to start page 34, the last paragraph of page 34. This is a newer section. The title of the section is Living Out the Reality of Life. Let me read the first paragraph. I have explained that the reality of life is the very living out of life, just as it is, and that the Zen is the practice of doing just that. But is there any other way to live besides living life as it is?

[01:03]

Of course not. Whatever our way of life may be, that is the reality of life. So there is no possibility of living outside the reality of life. Nevertheless, it is also too possible to live losing sight of that reality, and because of that, to suffer and agonize about our lives. So he has been talking about our Dazen practice, and he said our Dazen is to practice and to give out this reality of life as it is, but it's beyond our thinking. And the question he raised here is, is it possible to live outside of this reality of life?

[02:14]

Whatever way of life we live, we cannot get out of reality of life. But he said, it's possible to lose the sight of reality of life because of our illusion. What illusion? That is, how can I say, floating around six feet of the ground. So even though our body is, of course our mind is, living the reality of life, but things happening in our mind can be the fantasy that is floating from the ground of reality of life. And he introduced one example here. That example is one woman.

[03:20]

So he introduced his conversation with this woman. But before I start to talk with this conversation, Uchimura's conversation with this woman, I'd like to introduce one... Chapter of Shobo Genzo, and what Uchan Roshi is saying is a kind of his understanding or interpretation of what Dogen Zenji is saying in here. This is a chapter of Shobo Genzo entitled Inmo. Inmo. Immo is a very well known or used often in Zen literature.

[04:22]

And this inmo literally means thus or how. So it doesn't mean, it has no, how can I say, meaning. It has function, but no meaning. And this word inmo or somo or jumo This means what. Those words are used to refer to the reality of life before any definition or before any conceptualization. and Dogen Zenji discuss about what this immo is. And first he introduced one of our ancestors' sayings about this immo.

[05:24]

The ancestor is Ungo Douyou. Ungo Douyou Daisho is a disciple of Tozan. He's a . So this is the very beginning of this chapter, Inmo said, Great Master Hong Jue, or Koukaku of Mount Yonju, or Yonju is Chinese, Ungo is Japanese, pronunciation of the name of the mountain this Zen master, Douyou, lived in. was the legitimate heir of Donshan, or Tozan.

[06:35]

He was the 39th generation Dharma descendant of Shakyamuni Buddha. He was a legitimate ancestor in the lineage of Donshan, or Tozan. One day he said to his assembly, If you wish to attain the matter of thusness, thusness or suchness is the English word to translate this word, immo. And here I translate, this is my translation, I translate with English word thusness. We can use suchness or as it is-ness, or those words. Why do you worry about the matter of justness? He said, If you wish to attain the matter of justness, you must already be a person of justness.

[07:45]

Since you are already a person of justness, why do you worry about the matter of justness? So Ungo repeated this inmo four times. First he said, if you wish to attain this inmo-ji, the matter of inmo, the matter of justness, then you must already be a person of justness, that is inmo-nin. inmoji and inmo-nin is person. And he said, since you are already a person of dustness, this is again inmo-nin, you are already the person of inmo. Then, so, why do you worry about the matter of dustness?

[08:48]

And next he said, What he said is that one who wishes to attain the matter of thusness must be a person of thusness. And because the one is already a person of thusness, Why does he have to worry about the matter of dustness? First he quotes the Chinese, and here he kind of translates this into Japanese, so kind of a repetition. And he showed his understanding of this saying. He said, the essential point of this saying is that directly heading toward the unsurpassable awakening for the time being is called thusness.

[09:53]

So this thusness or immo is directly heading toward the unsurpassable awakening. That means anuttarasambhaksambodhi. So this dustness is directly going toward the awakening anuttara samaksa body. This directly going means already there. That means this inmo is another word, reality of life or reality of all beings. And according to Nagarjuna, reality of all beings is itself nirvana. So that means we are already in the nirvana. And because of that we wish to attain the matter of thusness. So we are already within the reality of all beings, reality of life. Therefore we wish to attain the matter of reality of all beings.

[10:59]

Does it make sense? Maybe not. As for what the unsurpassable awakening is like, Even the entire ten-direction world is a small part of the unsurpassable awakening. This ten-direction world, this entire network of interdependent ordination, is a small part of unsurpassable awakening. This awakening is greater than the entire world. That means this awakening includes not only space, but also time. Entire time and space. This interconnectedness of throughout time and space is Anuttara Samyaksambodhi, is the reality of all beings.

[12:05]

And he said, we are, we are also the furnishings existing within the ten-direction world. Also the what? Furnishing, furnishing. Furnishing. That is like a desk, table, chairs, and utensils. So, you know, the ten-direction world is like a house, and we are like the furnishings or furnitures in the world. But there's not any room. How do you know? How do we know that we are thus? This is dogma. How do we know that we are thus?

[13:08]

It's funny. He said, we know that the reality is thus, or immo, because our bodies and minds appear within the entire world, and yet they are not ourselves. He said, we are like furnishings or furnitures of this world. And Dogen asked, why we know that? Because, he said, our body and mind, our five skandhas, appear, stay for a while, and disappear within this world. And he said, this is not our service. That means these five skandhas are a collection of causes and conditions, and our five skandhas, body and mind, are not my possession.

[14:12]

This is not a private thing, but this is a furnishing or furniture of this world. That means we are part of this interdependent origination and also we are persons of justness. It means we are born within the reality of life and we are living out within reality of life and we are dying within reality of life. We never get out of this reality of life. And he continues, even the body is not our personal possession. Our life is moving through the passage of time, and we cannot even stop it for an instant. Where have our rosy cheeks gone?

[15:17]

You know, rosy cheeks means when we are a child, our cheeks are rosy. But when we get old, not yet, not anymore rosy. That means we are getting older. So even if we wish to find them, there is no trace. So we cannot control the passage of time and changing of our body and mind. So this is the same thing as Ucchiamoro said in the previous section about we can't control our heart beating or breathing or sleeping. Because this is not our position, we cannot control. And commonly that is considered to be the cause of suffering. We cannot control, so we suffer.

[16:20]

because we want to, we have a desire to control, and yet we cannot. So this is a cause of suffering. Or, what is another word some people use instead of suffering? And this satisfactoriness, we cannot satisfy, we cannot have satisfactoriness because I cannot control even I am, even this person, these five skandhas. So usually this is considered to be the cause of suffering. But according to Mahayana teaching, this is reality of life. And when we awaken to this reality of life, this cause of suffering is a cause of nirvana. Not cause of, but nirvana itself.

[17:20]

That is a kind of... difference between early Buddhist teachings and Mahayana teachings. That means one of the basic teachings of Mahayana is samsara and nirvana one. Cause of samsara can be a cause of nirvana. When we awake to that reality and when we are released from clinging to these five skandhas, then these five skandhas is a gift from Buddha. That is what, not Buddha, but Dogen said, our life and death is Buddha's life. Life and death is, life and death or shoji, is a Chinese translation, one of the Chinese translations of samsara, the cycle of life and death.

[18:36]

But in Shobo Genzo Shoji, or life and death, Dogen then said, this life and death is Buddha's life. And in this case, this life, I usually write with a capital L life. That means Buddha's eternal life. That is mentioned in the Lotus Sutra. So without our life from this, there's no Buddha's life. And maybe I don't have time to talk about it. Maybe it might be interesting. I'll talk anyway. There's one Japanese pure land priest who, when he was about 60, maybe in his 60s, he had cancer. So he... faced his own matter of life and death.

[19:43]

And he is, you know, how can I say, contemplating on this shoji, life and death. And one day he found that you know, final stroke of this kanji, life. And the first stroke of this kanji, death, is the same line. So he made this one kanji. He put this together because he found these are two same line, same stroke. So he said, this is one kanji, not life and death. And he is asking to many of the Buddhist teachers, how do you read this kanji? And Uchiyama Roshi was one of the teachers who was asked.

[20:53]

And Uchiyama Roshi's way of reading this kanji, you know, oneness of life and death, The final stroke of life is the first stroke of death. So there's no separation between life and death. And Ujjamaa Roshi read this as right now, right here, this moment. So this moment is this line. which includes both life and death. So without this life and death, there's no Buddha's life. So within this, both samsara and nirvana are included. That is the reality Dogen Zenji and Uchamuroshi both try to point out.

[22:06]

How do you live this kanji, oneness of life and death? Anyway, so now Dogen Zenji describes the impermanence, and impermanence means we cannot control even our own life. So even the body is not our personal possession. Our life is moving through the passage of time, and we cannot even stop it for an instant. Where have our rosy cheeks gone? Even if we wish to find them, there is no trace. When we carefully contemplate, we understand that there are many things in the past that we can never see again.

[23:11]

He said there are many things, but not simply many things, but everything. Everything in the past we cannot see again. Even, you know, this is the same marker I saw and used yesterday, but this is different. So we cannot see yesterday's marker and we cannot see yesterday's me. It's already gone. So only this moment, that is life and death, right now, right here. And we only have once within millions of years. And not only the body, but the sincere red heart does not stay either. Bit by bit, it is coming and going. Our mind is also coming and going. Although there is sincerity, this red heart means sincere heart.

[24:16]

So although there is sincerity, even if we live sincerely, it does not stagnate within the boundary of individual ego-centered self. although there is sincerity, it does not stagnate, stay, stagnate within the boundary of individual ego-centered self. So even our mind is gone. My past mind is already gone. As the Diamond Sutra said, the past mind is already gone, so it cannot grasp it. The future mind is not graspable because it has not yet here and present. Mind is also ungraspable because there is no such chunk of time to grasp.

[25:26]

So mind cannot be grasped also. Body is always changing, mind is also changing. Nothing is under our control. So the point is whether we awake to this reality and live based on this reality, or we want to create a fantasy and live within that fantasy. That is a point of samsara and nirvana. whether we live based on that reality of impermanence and egolessness, or we create the story based on our egocentredness and put our life into that story and develop within that story.

[26:29]

That is the difference between samsara and nirvana. So not so much different, very subtle difference, but this subtle difference makes a big difference. So, although it is thus, in this chapter he often uses this word thus, Although it is thus, there are some who allow the awakening mind. Without any particular reason, somehow we want to awaken to that reality. Because to live in the fiction or in the story does not make our life stable and peaceful, so somehow we want to awaken to that reality. This desire to awaken is awakening mind or bodhicitta.

[27:34]

From the time that this mind is aroused, so bodhicitta is aroused, we throw away everything we have been toying with, toying, playing with. We wish to listen to what we have never heard, that is Buddha's teaching, and we wish to verify what we have never verified. All of these are not simply our personal activities. This desire to awaken, awakening, is not our personal desire. Somehow that's why Ucchama Rosho Fun said, this awakening is not this deluded person awakened to the reality, but he said, reality awakened to the reality. So this practice and this awakening is also, this activity or practice is also not my or Shohak's action to make Shohak a better person, but reality awakened to reality through this person.

[29:01]

and why we should do such a thing. Dogen then said, we should know that we are thus because we are persons of thusness, because we are persons of immo, because we are living within that reality of life. Somehow we wish to awaken to that reality of life. How do we know that we are persons of thusness? Then his answer is, we know that we are the persons of thusness precisely because we wish to attain the matter of thusness. he said, you know, we allow such a thing because we are persons of dustness. And he asked again, why we can see we are persons of dustness?

[30:13]

He said, because, that is because we want, we wish to awaken to that dustness. So dustness is similar to, you know, the reality of life. because we want to awaken to the reality of life, because we are actually living the reality of life. And how do you know? Because we want to awaken to the reality of life. So this is a kind of repetition. But that is the only reason we can find. Since we already have the face of the person of thusness, we should not worry about the present matter of thusness. So, darkness is not something lacking, but we are within darkness, and we are already the person of darkness.

[31:15]

So, when we awake, that means when we let go of these fantasies, we are right within this darkness. So, darkness is not something lost and went somewhere else, but Within darkness, we have fantasy, and we lose sight of the darkness. So when we let go of this fantasy, then we are right in the middle of darkness, reality of life. That's why he said, we don't need to worry about it. We don't need to find, we don't need to walk, wandering around to find what is the reality of life. Because it's here, it's working, always working within our five skandhas. But he says another interesting thing next.

[32:19]

Because to worry about it is also a matter of dustness. It is not worrying. Still we worry about it. How can we awaken to that? But this worry is also a function of dustness. So he said it is not worrying. That means we seek the reality of life, we try to find the reality of life, and we try to keep awakening to the reality of life. That is our practice. But this worrying and seeking is also a part of the reality of life, because we have, you know, like a plant grows towards the sun. We have a life force to awaken to the reality of life because the reality of life is us. Also, we should not be surprised that the matter of thusness is thus.

[33:33]

The matter of thusness is thus. Even if there is dustness, you may be surprised and scared. That is nothing other than dustness. So there's nothing outside of dustness. Everything is happening within this dustness or reality of life. So even our fictitious way of life, our fantasy, is also part of reality of life. But as far as we are living within this fictitious story, then, as Uchamaroji said, we are losing sight of reality, of thusness. So we have to practice, we have to study and practice. That is our study of dharma and practice of dharma. That there is thusness, There is thusness should not surprise us.

[34:36]

So we don't need to surprise and worry and scared. Simply this cannot be measured with the measurement of Buddha, cannot be measured by the measurement of the mind, cannot be measured by the measurement of the Dharma world, and cannot be measured by the measurement of the entire world. So this reality of life cannot be measured in any way because it includes everything. It should simply and precisely be already being a person of thusness. Why worry about the matter of thusness? For this reason, thusness of sound and color is thus. Thusness of body and mind is thus. Thusness of all Buddhas must be thus.

[35:41]

Sound and color is usually, we think, the object, and body and mind is subject. And as I often say, object, sound and color become a nama rupa. And this subject, body and mind, is being pulled by, by clinging to some part of the object. and chase after that, and hate or dislike another part of the object, and we try to escape from that, our life becomes samsara, chasing after something or escaping from something. But when we see vastness of sand and colors, that means object, and vastness of body and mind, then what he's saying is there's nothing to chase after, nothing to escape from. That is a place we can find a peaceful foundation of our life.

[36:45]

Then he quotes one phrase from a sutra. For example, at the time of falling down to the ground, falling down to the ground means when we are walking, falling down means we are in trouble, in some difficulties, when we lose sight of this reality of life. We thus understand as thusness that the time of inevitably standing up on the ground is thus. We should not doubt ourselves if we fall to the ground. That means if we fall to the ground, we have to stand up on the ground. And this ground is reality of life. I think basically what Uchiyama Roshi is saying here is the same as what Genshin is saying in this part of Inmo.

[37:57]

We are already living within the reality of life. And we are always part of reality of life. We never get out of life, but we lose sight of life, reality of life. So we try to awaken to, moment by moment. Then we are already there, because we are already a person of thusness. Even though we are persons of dustness, we lose sight of dustness because of our fantasies. So our practice of darshan is to awaken from the dream by letting go of thought moment by moment. I think now I'm ready to talk on the conversation between Uchiyamanoshi and this woman.

[39:00]

I think, you know, in the previous section, he talks about, you know, reality of life, our practice to awaken to and live out reality of life. And there are two ways to obstruct our awakening to the reality of life, that is, our self-centered, limited and conditioned way of viewing things in our daily lives. And second, our rational way of thinking to define everything. And he said, in Buddhism, the important point is reality beyond thinking. That means beyond discrimination. I think these three, you know, recently we studied the five eyes in the Diamond Sutra.

[40:10]

I think those three are first three eyes, you know, physical eyes, divine eyes, and wisdom eye or prajna eye. And fourth is Dharma eye. And fifth is Buddha eye. Buddha eye includes all those four. And Buddha eye is a perfect function of all those four eyes, I think. But where is Dharma eye? That is a kind of an interesting question. In the very beginning of this part two, Uchimuroji introduced his dialogue between one American businessman who had some feeling of emptiness in his life, even though he was a very successful person.

[41:16]

and he gave some advice. And here, you know, one Japanese woman come to talk with him, and he gave some advice. You know, within this conversation, Uchimuroshi always, never rejected person coming to ask the question. unless he was really sick. When he was not sick, he met all the visitors, and all the visitors had some problems or questions from their lives. I think he already talked about his attitude when he met with those visitors with questions. When he met with those visitors or persons who had problems, he met as a part of his life, his own life.

[42:24]

And the person's problem is his problem. That is his attitude. And often he give really precise answer so that American businessman really understood what Uchimuroshi is saying. And Uchimuroshi understood the essential point of this American businessman's question that is, according to this book, that is alienation. That is Uche Moroshi's dharma-ai. And actually, he wrote this book as a kind of a guideline of zazen practice for foreigners, because he didn't speak any Western language. Even though many Westerners came to practice with him, he couldn't give instruction one by one within conversation without a translator.

[43:37]

It's not convenient. That's why he wrote this book and asked... his American students to translate. So from the very beginning, he wrote this book. His intention was this is for instruction, the same instruction for foreigners. So this is how his Dharma Eye works. I mean, his activity of writing this book. So, you know, those kind of ancient teachings from the Diamond Sutra is really still working today in this person whose name was Uchiyama Kosho. So this is another example of Uchamros talks with one person who was in kind of difficulty.

[44:52]

And this conversation is quite long, so I read sentence by sentence, and I don't think we need explanations. So if I have something to say, you know, I may comment, but I just read sentence by sentence. Excuse me. One time A woman in her 40s came to talk with me. So she was one of the visitors to talk with Uchiyama Roshi. She was distraught as she told me her story. She had always loved to paint and was quite talented.

[46:00]

When she was in her 20s, her parents supported her and helped her make a life as an artist in Tokyo. Initially, she met with considerable success. So she was a painter. Her paintings were exhibited everywhere. often winning prizes, and even the critics gave her generous praise as an accomplished young artist. So when she was in her 20s, as a young artist, she was very successful. However, her brilliant beginning met with an obstacle.

[47:05]

Just when her reputation was starting to grow, her father lost everything he had. It was still a little too risky for her to live only by her paintings. And she was also worried about her disappointed parents. So she returned to the country and did all she could to look after them, after her parents. Years went by, so she left Tokyo to take care of her parents. That means she couldn't continue to work as an artist.

[48:11]

Years went by and her parents grew quite old. But her unceasing passion for painting would not allow her to stay in the country and wither away. So she moved back to Tokyo, taking her aged parents along. Maybe they might need some explanation. Tokyo is the center of Japan. And if not only the artist, but also any scholars or anything, if they want to be well-known, famous, first-class people, a successful person, he or she had to go to Tokyo. If they stayed in the local places, they might be a local person within local, but they cannot be a really successful person.

[49:21]

So all talented people who want to be successful, to get success, need to go to Tokyo. and especially the world of painters are kind of small and there is a, you know, in Japanese society everything is like a pyramid. There is a, you know, certain, you know, very well-known painters and Without entering this small pyramid, the person cannot be successful. The outsider cannot be famous. So first, from the bottom of the pyramid, the person should climb the ladder. if the person wants to be a successful artist or even a noblest or poet. That is a kind of a system of Japanese society.

[50:26]

That's why in order to be a successful artist, she needs to stay in Tokyo. When she left Tokyo, that means she left that pyramid. So she lived in the countryside to take care of her parents for many years, maybe 20 or so, because she was successful in her 20s and now she was in her 40s. So she lived in the countryside for almost 20 years. Years went by and her parents grew quite old, but her unceasing passion for painting would not allow her to stay in the country and wither away. So she moved back to Tokyo, taking her aged parents along.

[51:33]

She worked during the day, so she had a part-time job, and devoted herself to painting at night. She continued this effort for several years, but she was unable to win recognition the way she had in her twenties. Every painting she exhibited and placed her hopes in lost in competition. As a result, she was unable to sell any paintings and was forced to continue working to support herself and her parents. which sapped all her energy and spirit. So she couldn't really focus on her painting.

[52:37]

Lamenting her unfortunate situation, she wept over being unable to develop her talent because her family had lost all its property. That was her story. So she want to receive some advice from Roshi. When I totally sympathized with her inability to achieve her goal as a painter due to the setback in her circumstances, I rebuked her for her own sake.

[53:44]

So now Uchimurushi started to talk to her. this is a kind of a strong saying to that person who are in difficulties and kind of a, I think, psychologically she's vulnerable. What is the word? Yeah. He said, you are thinking about this all wrong. It's a kind of strong saying, you are wrong, you are mistaken. It's a big mistake to think that it is only natural for a person to receive a family inheritance. What is natural is that a person has no property at all.

[54:47]

You know, when she was young, because her family had a lot of wealth, that's why she could study painting in Tokyo. That means parents sent money to support her study. And it was, of course, it was very unusual. situation in Japan at that time. Now Japan is a rich country, so many parents could send money for their children to receive good education. But maybe this is about 30, 40 years ago, And she was about 40, so it was about 50, 60 years ago when she was 20.

[55:48]

Only a rich family could send their children to Tokyo and send money to support the person's education. That means the family was really rich. They must have some big property. but probably because of some difficulty. Her father maybe had bankrupt or something and he lost all the position. In my family, my family was the merchant in Osaka. Osaka is the second biggest city in Japan and the center of merchandise. And my family lived in downtown Osaka for six generations. So my family had certain property and wealth.

[56:51]

But we lost everything on one night. Then, you know, American Air Force bombed Osaka. Everything was burned. and only the land remained but my parents sold that land to raise us to raise their parents so after world war ii my family really had nothing and my father when i was a teenager my father said we have no property to, you know, to inherit. And we have no family business. My father, after World War, several years after World War II, my father went to countryside and did some farming because it was difficult to live in the city.

[57:56]

People were starving. And he, after several years, he came back to the city and started to work for a small company. So we had no family business and no wealth to inherit. So my father always said, you are free. You can do whatever you want. And I was lucky. I felt I was lucky. I'm free. why I could become a monk if the family wealth was there. I was the person who succeeded, took over it, and took care of it. So I appreciate it. I had nothing to inherit. And also, as a Buddhist teaching, now we have no possessions.

[58:58]

That is the reality. So if we have something in our head, if we can receive some financial support from family, that is unusual. That is what Uchamurashi is talking to this woman. So the person should be grateful about that. So, what is natural is that a person has no property at all. You were able to study painting by means of your family's wealth until you were past twenty. That is unusual, and something for which you should be grateful. Now, even though twenty-some years have passed, you are still lamenting your family's loss and being dragged around by fantasies of the past.

[60:08]

You have to open your eyes to your present reality and start off with a totally naked self. possessing no property or anything else. Before Jamal said we are born as a naked self without any possession, then we are born. And when we die, we cannot take any possession behind. We have to leave everything behind. So we die as a naked self. We are born as a naked self and we die as a naked self. But during birth and death, we put on different kinds of clothings. all those conditions and situations and positions, wealth, or even the position or jobs or status or reputation or fame, those are all closing, according to Ujjomorosi.

[61:22]

Then he said, dropping off body and mind, that means dropping off those clothings and become a naked self as we are born or as we are going to die. In that sense, he said, to sit facing the wall and sitting is like to be in our casket. without grasping anything, without possessing anything. That is the reality of life. And that is where we find peace of mind. If we are worrying about which clothing we can take, and we hate the clothing we put on now, but we want to get better clothing, You know, this is what we mainly doing in our life between birth and death.

[62:30]

But from that, when we are born and when we die, we become naked still. So according to Chamros' teaching, to sit facing the wall and letting go of thought and dropping off body and mind means to become, not become, but be our naked self without any position. So whatever we can use, When we sit, we have clothing, of course. And this clothing is a gift from Buddha. Because this is a Buddhist robe, so this is actually a gift from Buddha. But even if we don't But on the Buddhist clothes, Buddhist robes, still those are the gift from the nature, from the society. So we should be really grateful. And yet we are always complaining, this is not good enough.

[63:32]

We need to better clothings. That is how we create a story. What makes me such a miserable person? And we try to find the cause that was wrong. That is how we make a story of our life. And always the center of that story or a heroine or a hero of that story is me. So he said, we need to wake up, wake to this totally naked self, possessing no property or anything else. Then we can be a little more free. And we can be grateful for anything we have now. And besides, you are still looking back to the time when you were in your twenties, and the paintings you exhibited always won prizes for you, and wishing you could taste those days again.

[64:54]

isn't agonizing over things that doesn't work out just the way you want, nothing but being dragged around by more fantasies." So that means she was in trouble because of her fantasies about the past. You have to begin with your present reality. So you have to start from right now, right here. But we are always saying, if that didn't happen, I must be in a better condition now. So that is a problem. But we don't think this is a problem. And Uchamuroshi continues, what is most basic is that you paint because you enjoy painting.

[66:02]

Isn't that so? You enjoy painting. Can you let yourself be satisfied with that and with having a part-time job to support yourself? If you can make a living like that and enjoy painting the rest of the time, then you can have a rich life. This is something to be happy about whether you receive recognition or not. So what he's saying is, As a painter, painting itself should be the person can enjoy. But usually or commonly, through painting, we or many people want to get something else, like a prize or recognition or status or fame or wealth.

[67:14]

That is the problem. So we need to enjoy what we are doing. In the case of painting, it's the most important. But often we think, you know, this painting is a means or method to get something else, something desirable. So this is not the thing we want, but this is a method or means to get that thing. And according to Uchida Moroshi, that is a delusion. Why don't you, if you are a painter, just enjoy painting? Why do you need a recognition or a fame from other, from the society? Just enjoy painting, that's enough. Maybe I talk this many times, but one of the Japanese Rinzai Zen masters,

[68:21]

His name was Morinaga Soko, who was an abbot of Ryoanji. No, not Ryoanji, but a small sub-temple of Ryoanji. And he was a president of Hanazono University. That was Rinzai University. He said, Samadhi, about Samadhi, he said, Samadhi is like a kid playing with sand in a sandbox, like shoveling the sand and put it in a bucket and make something. For the kid, this action, he's just enjoying that action So if someone else said, do you want to exchange?

[69:24]

Then the kid said no, because the kid is enjoying this. But when a grown-up does the same thing, shoveling the sand as a job, For that worker, disheveling a sand is not that the person is enjoying, but he does this in order to get wage or money. So if someone asks the worker, do you want to exchange? And if someone else can do it and still the person can get the money, there's no reason the person say no. But according to that Murina Aroshi, that's the difference between samadhi and job or task. So for the painter, painting is, you know, same as kids, you know, playing with sons.

[70:27]

So painting should not be a task or job to get that thing. So what Utyamaroji is saying is if you like painting, painting is your samadhi. If you want to use this painting as a method to gain something else, that is not a real painter. What you are doing is not samadhi, but it's a job. And that is not a good thing. This person, this woman is a painter, so I remember Sawakiroshi's, within Sawakiroshi's life, as I said, he was born, he grown up in a very difficult situation.

[71:29]

His stepfather was a gambler and his stepmother was a prostitute and he was forced to work in that situation and he really didn't like to live in that way. And so that was about when he was about 10 years old. He just finished elementary school. said in his neighborhood there was a family and his father's job, and this family was only one exception in that area. That area was like a slum. Only one exception. And the father's job was, I don't know English, but his work is to amount the... paintings or calligraphy on the frame.

[72:33]

Yeah, something like that. And anyway, and he was very, exceptionally, he was very, not very, but educated person. And he knows some, he has some, you know, knowledge about the classic teaching of Confucius or those things. And his son, a six year older than Sawaki Roshi, was a painter. I mean, he was 16, so he was not a painter yet, but he was studying painting. And that person talked about painters to Sawakiroshi. And one of the stories was, you know, one very well-known painter, he never worried about money.

[73:42]

He really loved paintings. And so she didn't paint for money. So one time she paint, you know, with a kind of a expensive, on the expensive paper with using expensive, what do you call, colors. And it's a big painting. But the person who ordered that painting I don't know how much. He said very cheap. But sometimes when a rich person came to ask paint, and he paint with just ink in 10 minutes or so, and the person paid something like $1,000.

[74:44]

So the painter doesn't care how much the customer paid, but he just liked what he wanted to paint. When he, Sawakiro, when he was 10 years old, he had that kind of story. It's very different from the people he knew in his livelihood. So he had, he yearned to that kind of story. without concerning or worrying about how much income or not, but just focus on what painters just paint for the sake of painting. That was a desire he had, and that was, I think, a motivation. He wanted to escape from his...

[75:48]

family situation and became a Buddhist monk. So until his death, Sawakiroshi just sits for the sake of sitting, not to make this a cerebral thing. That is a really important point in Sawakiroshi. And Uchiyama Roshi is talking the same things in here. So if you love painting, just paint. Don't worry about money or fame. So he said, this is something to be happy. That to be happy means she has a talent to paint and she could paint. That is something to be happy about. Whether you receive recognition or not, that is not a question. You must be happy just you can paint.

[76:54]

And he started to talk about his own life. So Uche Maroshi also following Sawakiroshi's teaching to practice the Zen. This is a really important point. I haven't been doing the Zen because I want to make it into something cerebral. I've been leading a life of the Zen for 30 years. But in the first twenty, I was completely ignored by the world and practiced zazen in obscurity with barely enough to eat. But just by doing zazen, I was able to discover the meaning of my life, my own life. Even in those circumstances, in very difficult and poor circumstances, he could find a meaning of life.

[78:05]

So to find a place where we can find a meaning of life, is, I think, most important. That is what Dogen Zen said in Genjo Koan, to find a place. If we find a place, we can find a path. But unless we find a place, it means what we really want to do and we can enjoy, whether we receive some profit or fame. That is a place. When we find that place, we can find a path to go. But unless we find the place we really can stay and enjoy, then our life becomes samsara. If we find even one thing, painting for painter or zazen practice for zazen practitioner, if we can find only that one thing, then no matter how difficult another part of our life might be, we can find a meaning.

[79:18]

During the last ten years, people who are sympathetic with my attitude towards the Zen have come to join me in sitting. But even now, I haven't the slightest intention of making the Zen into a cerebral product. I'm just doing my own the Zen. For you, painting your pictures is your life. Shouldn't just that be your greatest joy? So I also have been trying to follow this attitude from Sawaki Roshi about the Zen. I try not to make the Zen as a sellable thing, commercial product. That's why we are still small. That's fine.

[80:28]

Only people who really want to practice can come. That is a really important point in our lineage from Sawakiroshi. Not only Sawakiroshi, but from Dogenzenji. Even now, I'm talking so many times, but I don't receive salary from Sanshin Zen Committee. And if I can make fantasy, I can make, you know, many different fantasies. Like if I didn't become Mucha Moroshi disciple, but I continue to study and become a Buddhist scholar at Komoda University, you know, the current president of Komoda University is... same age with me. So if I studied a lot, maybe I could be the president of that university.

[81:32]

That is one kind of fantasy I could have. And another one, before I was ordained, became Uchamurochi disciple, I was asked to become a disciple of certain priest who was a professor of that university, and he had a big temple, but he didn't have a successor. So he asked me if I was interested in his disciples. So if I said yes to that person, now I could be the abbot of a big rich temple. But I said, no, I was not interested in that way of life at all when I was 20 or 21. That's why I became Uchiyama Roshi's disciple, who was the abbot of Antaji that has no family members, so that means no income. That is how I have been living.

[82:38]

And I think I'm pretty happy about what I'm doing now. If I became a scholar in the university or a professor in the university, there are so many things I have to do. And when I became an abbot of a big temple, I didn't have enough time to practice that. So to me this is the best way of life. And almost 40 years later, I could still practice. I was taught by my teacher. It was really fortunate to me. And I had some people who could practice with same attitude. Well, it's 10.30 maybe. This is a good place to stop, and I'll continue from here tomorrow.

[83:42]

Any questions or comments? No questions, please. There is some kind of art that one does that seems like they require other people to participate, anything in dance or theatre or so forth. Making movies? Yes, and any of that kind of thing. I was thinking of writing, which I did for a while. In the case of writing, we need readers. Writing cannot read us. Same as painting. Painting needs some people to see. But it's different from chasing after the fame and the profit to paint and offer this to the people who can enjoy it.

[84:55]

And musicians can be the same, or making movies, or writing novels or poems can be the same. But I think the important point is we do this for the sake of something, or just do this. For a time, I don't know, a few months, I think, I actually wrote full-time. I lived without it. But doing it full-time instead of having a job and then doing it in my spare time was quite different. And I'm thinking that this woman was really regretting that. I mean, who knows what she is regretting. Probably she wants to be a full-time painter. That means to support her life and parents by painting. Yeah, yeah. And to be, because, I mean, as you know, you know, I mean, you practice full-time. And we all wish we could practice full-time with our jobs.

[85:57]

Mm-hmm. And so there's a little problem. Yeah, so we need patience. We need patience and continue to work to create such a situation we can practice for a time. It's not possible for me even now because my source of income is mainly from that work. Who knows if we continue to work? But that might be another cause of the problem. If we have enough support, financial support, we could be a full-time practitioner. that might be a cause of problem because people may become that part of community because of that support, not the practice itself.

[87:06]

So we don't know what is the best situation. Maybe the situation we are in is difficult but somehow good. Ujjamaa said he could barely eat and practice. That might be the best situation. There's a lot of difficult things about our situation, but we have an opportunity to try to make our work, the work that we're doing, we're trying to bring our practice into that work. And it's sort of a continual thing to try to keep my energy levels up and stuff so I can work here. But it's also a challenge and a good thing to learn is to try to, I had an artist I was in, and get the work that we do when mowing the lawn for living with this or whatever job we're, you know, going to the orchard to.

[88:08]

to not just forget about the zazen then. Yeah, good point of our practice. Those activities can be practiced, part of our zazen practice. In Dogen Zenji's tradition, working is very important practice, and also offering something to other people. So if we have a job through which we can offer something and help something, some helpful thing for others, even though those people are not Buddhists, then it's a practice for us. So that is a good point about our practice. Please. The same lines, I was thinking, in listening, at least as much of it, this could, everything we've discussed could be true for a very ego-centered situation.

[89:17]

And it's on my big mind is about bodhisattva aspect of it. So like I said with that, you know, I mean, That's something to watch out for, that we don't forget the voice-up. You already mentioned we do something for the people, but otherwise everything you said could be by somebody who's heard of voice-ups. You know what I mean? What is that? What is the word you said? This was selfish. Self-centered. Just practice for the sake of practice is a self-centered attitude? Well, it could be. It could be interpreted as the same way you do... That means escape from the society and focus on our practice for the sake of our own.

[90:23]

We can enjoy it. OK. I don't know about the painter, but about our practice, you know, we receive bodhisattva precepts and we take refuge in the Buddha Dharma and Sangha, and we take four bodhisattva vows. So even, you know, for example, Dogen Zenji's Way of Life, He escaped from Kyoto to the very deep mountains and created a very small community only for the sake of practice. Is it selfish or not? So we must be careful, you know, even

[91:26]

In the case of Dogen, even though he lived in a deep mountain, kind of escape from the noisy, busy world, but still his activities was based on Bodhisattva vows. So even in his lifetime, his teaching did not influence society so widely. But because of the life of his vows, power of life, life of his vows, energy of his vows, Later, his teachings spread all over Japan. So even though now we are a very small community, And that is okay, but we need to maintain that kind of energy of power of vow, life force of vow, then it can, you know, even little by little, you know, the community become wider.

[92:41]

Please. Yeah, somewhere I remember in some discussion of Zen terminology, the phrase, not forgetting. In a way, to repeat the vows or something, it's not forgetting that we stop the vow while we're doing this. And then for me, an interesting aside in the long time world, blah, blah, blah, was Yasutani, actually. And he was talking to people about necessity. you know, the responsibility, we have to work ourselves, and, you know, and this is the best of all possible times, and, you know, that kind of stuff. But then the other thing he added was that, how do you put it? He said, but even though we're doing this work on ourselves, and working hard, he said, how do you put it? He said, uh, our efforts are supported by people that we never hear about that are far away practicing."

[93:50]

And he said, their efforts are helping us and whatnot, but he included some mysterious people that nobody knew that these teams were just practicing, but he said they help We are supported by this entire network of interdependent origination, so we cannot be really alone or separate from the rest of the world. That is what interconnectedness means. So no matter how small our community might be, and no one care of, no one pay attention to what we are doing now. Maybe not many people in this country don't know what we are doing, but still we are connected with all those people. It's important not to forget about that connection.

[94:52]

We cannot be alone even if we live in deep mountains. Any more questions or comments? I've got a quick question, to go back to the show Braginzo, the festival that you were talking about. There was one thing you mentioned, kind of near the end of where you were saying about that, and it was about body and mind and sound and color. Something about when they exist in dustness, there's nothing to cling to. And that reminded me, is that one of Dauvin's comments on the precepts that's very similar to that? Yes. Could you say kind of about what that means? Yeah. I think he said the same kind of things, similar thing on the second precept, not Steve.

[95:54]

Not stealing. When subject and object are in dustness, the gate of liberation opens. Something like that. That means there's nothing to steal. If body and mind and sound and color are in dustness, there's no separation to make this thing my possession. Yeah, he said the same thing. So the precept of not stealing is not simply ethics or morality, but it's also an expression of our understanding or awakening to that reality or dustness. That is a very important point when we study and understand and practice the precepts in our tradition.

[97:00]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_90.74