Good morning, everyone. Yesterday afternoon I started talk on the paragraph 13, page 7, but I couldn't finish, so let me start from paragraph 13. This is the most difficult paragraph And I don't think I understand what he's saying. But anyway, I try to talk what I'm thinking. Anyway, let me read that paragraph again. Leaving the gate, immediately there are glasses. Entering the gate, immediately there are glasses. Within 10,000 miles... There is no single inch of grass. The one word, enter, and the one word, leave, are useless either at this place or at that place.

[01:14]

The present grasping does not wait for the letting go. But this is a dream, a phantom, and a flower in the sky. Who would hold this mistake and make another mistake saying that this is a dream, a phantom, a flower in the sky? Stepping forward is a mistake. Stepping back is also a mistake. Taking one step. is a mistake, taking two steps is also a mistake. Therefore, one mistake after another mistake, whatever we say is a mistake. Because the separation is as great as that between heaven and earth, the ultimate way is not difficult.

[02:19]

we should conclude that dignified conduct is conducting dignity and the essence of the great way is boundless do you understand well When I don't understand what Dogen is saying, I return to the material or word he's using. So now, in this paragraph, he uses three materials. One is this koan about the gate and glasses, the donshans, and the second, is Shinjin-mei or Shin-shin-ming, the English translation of Shinjin-mei.

[03:24]

Face, mind, something. Mei means writing or poem. Anyway, this is a long poem by the third ancestor, Sosan. And this strange expression, mistake after mistake, those are three things. And unless we understand the exact meaning of those three materials, I don't think we understand what Dogen is trying to say here. So I have been studying those three things, these three means, But still, I don't understand what you're saying. But anyway, I start to talk with this koan again. Yesterday, I just introduced the main case.

[04:26]

That is, Dongshan said to the assembly, Dongshan is Tozan Ryokai, In Japanese, he was a founder of Chinese Soto Zen tradition, said to the assembly, it's the beginning of autumn, the end of summer, and you brethren will go some to the east, some west. You must go where there is not an inch of grass. for 10,000 miles. This is . Then no one made any comment to this thing of Tozan.

[05:43]

So Tozan said again, he also said, but where there is not an inch of grass for 10,000 miles, how can you go? How can you go? So Tozan is also asking how. How can you go to the place? There is no grass, no inch of grass in 10,000 miles. Then . The Chinese pronunciation is . Tozan's dharma cousin said, go out the gate. Immediately there is grass.

[06:45]

Go out is shitsumo. In Shōbōgen, the dog is Benze. Then we take one step out of the gate of the monastery, then there are grass. Then later, Taiyou Kyogen, or in Chinese, Da Yan, said, I would say even not going out the gate. Still, the grass is boundless. So even within the gate. So this is fu shi tsu mon. But Dogen said, nu mon.

[07:47]

And fat Dayan said, kusa man man. So Dogen said something a little different than Dayan. Yeah. not exact quote. It is entering, exiting, going out of the gate and entering the gate. This is a main case of this Koan story. This appeared in the Book of Serenity. Case number 18. And to understand this koan, trying to point to us, I'd like to introduce the introduction by the person, the master who made this shoyoroku, or Book of Serenity, whose name was Bansho Gyoshu.

[08:58]

In the introduction, Bansho said, move, move, and you bury your body 10,000 feet deep. If move, you bury your body 10,000 feet deep. Don't move, and sprouts grow right where you are. Move. might be interpreted as a moving of body. But this, according to the commentary, Japanese commentary, this move is movement of our mind. When our mind moves, we bury our body or ourselves in the 10,000 feet deep. 10,000 feet deep means hell. sansara. And don't move and sprout, grow, right here you are.

[10:06]

In this translation it says sprout, but I think originally it means roots. Roots grow. That means we cannot move. So if our mind moves, we create sansara and our life becomes suffering. And yet if our mind doesn't move, that means no thinking. Then we cannot move because we cannot make any decision if we don't think and make a choice whether which is better to go, which way we should go. If we don't think and make some dualistic comparison, we cannot make choice. So we have to stay same place forever. We cannot move. That is don't move means. And you must cast off both sides.

[11:14]

We have to let go of both sides, moving and not moving. We have to cast both. And let the middle go. Let the middle go. What is the middle? the middle of moving or thinking and not thinking. What is this middle? How can we let the middle go? How can we go the middle path between thinking or discrimination and non-discrimination, or duality and non-duality? How can we find the middle path and how we can walk freely? instead of making our life sansara, or making ourselves stuck in one place of non-thinking. How can we move and live freely on the middle path between thinking and non-thinking, or discrimination and non-discrimination, or duality and non-duality?

[12:29]

Then you must buy some sandals. You must buy some sandals and travel somewhere before you will really attain realization. I don't like this translation because in the original it doesn't say realization. You will hit something. You will attain, but the text doesn't say what you will attain. So you will not realize something fixed like a realization, but how can we walk freely through on this middle path? So in order to find the middle path, we need to buy some pairs of sandals. That means we need to travel. Some more travel means to practice. and to travel to find true teacher.

[13:37]

And under the guidance of true teacher, you have to practice and study. So this is a starting point of practice, our practice. How can we go through the middle way between thinking and not thinking? Zen, please. How can we go through the middle way but also let go of the middle? Yeah, let the middle go. Let go of absolute, let go of relative, let go of letting go. Right. So we need to be free to move. So we need to be free from those three. Even we need to be free from the middle path in order to walk on the middle path. Because middle is not certain fixed point. Middle is always changing. And the one she's verse on this main case is as follows.

[14:49]

Grass boundless. So wherever we go, we see grasses. Grasses means are thinking and duality and difference. Grass boundless, whether inside the gate or outside the gate. And this inside and outside the gate can be a temple gate, but also can be inside of ourselves and outside. in interacting with things outside of ourselves, and how we, you know, practice inside ourselves. Both inside and outside ourselves, there are many grasses. So grass boundless. Inside the gate, outside the gate,

[15:53]

You see by yourself. That means you have to check those glasses by yourself. We cannot grasp the glasses as a concept, but we have to meet each and every glasses whenever we encounter. We have to check them up in order to become free from those glasses. So inside the gate, outside the gate, you see by yourself. To set foot in the forest of thorn is easy. The forest of thorn is the forest of samsara. Thorns. Thorns.

[16:55]

Thorns. The forest of thorns. To walk in the forest of thorns is easy. To turn the body outside the luminous screen is hard or difficult. Do you understand? To turn the body outside the luminous screen is hard. This luminous screen is non-duality, oneness, or we can say nirvana, or enlightenment, beyond duality. So to live freely, to turn the body means to live freely. Instead of, you know, stuck in one place with no thinking, we have to freely move and practice within non-thinking.

[17:59]

How can we do that? It's more difficult than walk through within samsara. And Dabas continued, look, look, how many kinds how many kinds of grasses how many kinds of grasses we see for the wife going along with the old tree with the same emaciation emaciation in the cold emas you know the emaciation initiation Immaciation. You know, in the winter, all the plants are... Immaciation. Thank you. Without... That is not discrimination.

[19:06]

And the last line is about to follow the spring wind. into the scars of the burning. That means after spring comes, all the plants or grasses sprout again. That means through the winter of emaciation or non-thinking, new life force grows. you know, new grasses grow. Please. Delusions grow. Yeah. Yes, new growth, delusion. Bodhisattva's delusion grows. That is our practice. So this is the meaning of this koan. So here, these two grasses,

[20:13]

is duality or difference. And no grass, the place without any inch of grass in 10,000 miles is no discrimination, no thinking. Or we can say, you know, this is that place, and this is this place, the expression Dogen using . This place and that place. Please. Would it be accurate to say that outside the gate is the world, is samsara? Inside the gate is non-ruality? I don't think so. Both together are samsara. And the place without grass is beyond reality.

[21:22]

I thought that that's what the two commentaries, outside the gate, you can't get away from the grass. There's always grass. And the other person said, inside the gate, there's always grass, too. Yes. So in other words, you can't escape from the world of duality. Right. Yes. So either inside the gate or outside the gate, that is the world of duality. What's the difference between inside the gate and outside the gate? What's the sense of leaving the monastery or walking out of the gate or entering the gate? In this paragraph, Dogen said, step forward and step backward, going out and coming in. And this... Step backward referred to... Zazen. Yes.

[22:25]

And they're grasped there too. Yes. So... So, this is two sides, and this one and this one is two sides. So, then, referring to that, then leaving the gate or being outside the gate is the world of activity, and inside the gate is the world of stillness, is the world of zazen? I think so. Still, we find grasslands. That is our actual practice. Then, here is this Non-duality. Here is this, that place. Here is this, is the, I think, point. Please. As long as you think there's a gate, there are grass. Yeah, that is what Dogen said. Going out and entering is not useful in the paragraph.

[23:27]

Either way, we find grass. Anyway, this is fact. This poem about grass is saying, so when Logan Light leaving the gate, immediately there are grasses. Entering the gate, immediately there are grasses. And within 10,000 miles, there is no single inch of grass. The first two refer to this place, and the third means that place, beyond duality. This is our practice, whether step forward or stepping back. This is our practice. Then where can we find that place, the place without no grass, without any grass? What is this? is a point of this story, Aimi Kōan's story.

[24:32]

And let me talk about the shinjinmei, the expression Dogen used in the third sentence, grasping and letting go, and a dream, a phantom, and a flower in the sky. And in the sentence of, because the separation is as great as that between heaven and earth, the ultimate way is no difficult. This is also quote from the Shinjinmei. And another one is the final sentence, the last sentence of this paragraph. The essence of the great way is boundless is also a quote from Shinjinmei. So let me talk about the meaning of this expression in Shinjinmei.

[25:39]

I found two English translations of Shinjinmei. One is by D.T. Suzuki, and another is, what's his name, Andy Ferguson. But I like D.T. Suzuki's translation better. Anyway. The expression Dogen quote in the third sentence is from Shinjin Mei. In the D.T. Suzuki's translation, this translation is appeared in the book and titled Mani-Aryo of Zen Buddhism. And D.T. Suzuki put a number on each passage, each section.

[27:02]

And this appear in section 20. Let me first write in Chinese. Meishou Jack Lang. GO MU GO MU KO PO ISSAI NIHEN MO JI KAN MU GEN KU GE KA RO HA SOKU TOKU SHITU

[28:31]

The first line in DT Suzuki's translation is, the ignorant. The ignorant cherish the idea of rest and unrest. Jack is rest and run. literally mean destruction, but he translates as unrest. Rest means nirvana. And unrest is samsara. So deluded people create the separation or discrimination between samsara and nirvana. The wise go Goi is realization or satori, but the people or persons who have satori, and here, British translators, the wise, the wise are, no, I'm sorry, the enlightened.

[29:53]

The enlightened have no mood, have no like and dislike. So enlightened person has no such discrimination, no core is like or is dislike or hate. So deluded people make a discrimination between samsara and nirvana. But enlightened people or person have no like and dislike, so no discrimination. All forms of dualism. Isai means all. Forms of ni. Ni is two. Hen is size. Two size means duality. Two size.

[30:55]

Ah. All forms of dualism are contrived by the ignorant themselves. All forms of duality were created by, made by, deluded people. They are like unto visions, they are like unto, this is, they No, this one. They are like visions and flowers in the air. MU-GEN-KU-GE. This translates MU-GEN as a vision and KU-GE as a flower in the air. Flower in the air is the English word, cataract.

[32:05]

You know, when we have a sickness, disease in the eyes, cataract. Something like a flower can be seen, even though it's not there. That is what this kuge, flower in the sky, means. So it's an illusion. Wait, could you say that line again in English? Which one? The last one that has the flower in the air. They are. They are like unto visions and flowers in the air. They're like unto? Like U-N-T-O? U-N-T-O. Okay. They are like unto visions and flowers in the air. I translate in Shobo Genzo as a dream, phantom, and... Flower in the sky or flower in the air? Sky?

[33:06]

This expression is interesting and important in Dogen's teaching also. Anyway, then finally, gain and no, this one. Why should we trouble ourselves? to take hold of them, to take hold of these visions and flowers in the sky, in the air. Hāsoku means to take hold or grasp or grab, catch it. How can we make trouble to catch those dualistic ideas or either side of duality?

[34:11]

And next one is toku is gain and shi is lose. And ze is right, hi is not right or wrong. So gain and loss, right and wrong, these are one or two examples of duality. away with them once for all. Away from them once for all is a translation of means one. And this time, at once, hōkyaku, here D. T. Suzuki said, away from them. But this hōkyaku, another translation of hōkyaku is cast off or let go.

[35:18]

Let go. So basically this part of Shinjinmei is saying is duality are made by deluded person or made by delusion. And enlightened person has no such duality of like and dislike. So all forms of duality are are mainly made by these deluded people. And they are like a dream, phantom, and a flower in the sky that is illusion. So why we take a trouble to grasp this side or that side?

[36:27]

make a choice which is better. Is this better or is that better? So we should at once, we should let go of all gain and loss and right and wrong. I think the meaning is very simple and very clear. But this is the problem, at least for Dogen. And not only Dogen, but at least the person who made that koan. I mean, within this, you know, there is a duality. Do you see? Delusion, deluded person and enlightened person. And duality and non-duality, that is duality.

[37:30]

Duality between duality and non-duality is a duality. And if we think this is enlightenment and this is delusion, so we have to grasp this and escape from that, that is duality. So within this expression, there is duality. How can we go beyond this reality is the point you know, this Toan and also Dogen is trying to teach us how can we go beyond duality, between duality and non-duality? How can we go beyond that? Or how can we integrate duality and non-duality within one action, each and every activity in our daily lives. Basically, that is a point of Dogen. And the expression of, next expression from Shinjinmei Dogen used in the sentence, because the separation is as great as that between heaven and earth,

[38:49]

The ultimate way is not difficult. This is from the very beginning of Shinjinbe, the very beginning. In Chinese, it's said, Yuiken Kenjaku. Ken. Jaku. Tan. Maku.

[39:50]

Zou. Ai. To-nen. Mei-haku. Go-ri. Hikori-u. Sa. Ten-chi. Ken. Kak. In D. T. Suzuki's translation, the first one, is the perfect way, no difficulty. perfect way or supreme way.

[40:57]

She is the highest, the highest way supreme way mu is no nine is difficult so supreme way has no difficulty only yui is only uh ken is dislike dislike ken jack is accept that it refuses to make preferences. So kenjaku is preferences. To make choice and pick up one, one of them. That's what kenjaku means. So what this sentence means is the supreme or highest answer possible way is not difficult. Only it refuses or dislikes discrimination and picking and choosing.

[42:05]

Do you see the contradiction within this sentence? Dislike or refuse, picking and choosing is picking and choosing, right? That is a problem. If we dislike picking and choosing and we like no picking and choosing, that means no discrimination, then we are making choosing. We like no discrimination. We don't like discrimination. That means we don't like samsara. We love nirvana. So how we can go to nirvana? That is the problem. At least according to Dogen's point of view. in the expression of Shinjinmei. That is a problem I think Dogen had. And second, next line is, only femme freed from hate and love.

[43:16]

Tada is only. Mako is not. only without hatred and love. Only without hatred and love, it reveals itself free and without disguise. It means the unsurpassable way reveals itself free, free and without disguise. Literally, this tone means very clear, without any distraction. And mei haku is bright and white. It's really obvious. There's no question or no problem. But a tenth of an inch is different. This is go-rimo-sa-are-ba.

[44:21]

Gori means slightest difference, and Sa is difference. So if there is even a slightest difference, Ten, Si. Ten is heaven, Si is earth. Ken is far away, and Kak is separate. A tenth of an inch is difference, and heaven and earth are set apart. So even there is a slightest deviation or difference, we are far from this supreme way, like, you know, between earth and heaven. This is very simple message from Zen.

[45:25]

So we have to see this non-duality, the reality without any discrimination or separation. That is a very strong and simple message from Zen. And we think this is the basic teaching of Zen, and that is true. But this is a problem, because within these both teachings, there are still duality, very clearly. So I think later ages in Zen, they tried to fix or integrate this duality between duality and non-duality. And there are two methods, I think, who are kind of created.

[46:29]

I think one is Rinzai method. That is like in the teaching of 10 oxy-heating picture. I think you are familiar with this teaching, Ten Ox Feeding Pictures. That is, seeing non-duality or oneness is the first thing we have to accomplish. At the next stage, we have to become free from that non-duality and return to the marketplace. That is one method to integrate these two. First, so when we are deluded, we create duality.

[47:33]

We live in a dualistic way. And we make our life samsara. So first we have to discover oneness beyond any duality. But if you stay there, that is a problem. That is a sickness of emptiness. So we have to return to this place from that place. So this is a method. First go there, and next return there. return to this place. This is one method to kind of fix this duality between duality and non-duality. So this is a kind of a stage. First we have to become free from duality and discover oneness, non-duality.

[48:35]

And then as a In Rinzai tradition, it is called a practice after enlightenment. That is, we see the duality and live freely within duality, or a dualistic world, this world, within this marketplace. That is, I think, Rinzai method. And another way, I think, sees This is my thinking, so you don't need to believe it. In the case of Dogen, this is not a stage. First, you have to go beyond duality and see oneness or non-duality. And we return to the world of duality in order to help others. But in Dogen's teaching, both are From the very beginning of our practice, both are there.

[49:39]

And in each moment in the process of our practice, we need to see both at the same time. That is my understanding of basic teaching of Dogen. Instead of first we become free from duality and return to duality, And from the very beginning we have to see both. That is why I think, you know, very well-known statement from the Diamond Sutra. That is a ken sho so mu so is ken nyo rai.

[50:59]

Not mu, but hi. Din, ken, nyorai. Kei, to see. Shoso is all forms. And he is not form, is to see same ken, to see tathagata. Nyorai is tathagata. And of course, a common way of reading this very short sentence is to see all forms as not form or no form is to see tathagata, that means all forms are delusion or illusion, like a dream, phantom, and flowers in the sky.

[52:16]

So we should see all those forms are no form. That means empty. Emptiness. So when we see all forms are no form that means we are not deceived by the form we see then we we see tatarata in this case this tatarata does not mean that buddha is a person but tatarata means reality of all beings how the way things are in the way things really are But Dogen read this in a little bit different way. This is his common, usual practice. I think he's hoping. He read this to see all forms and no form.

[53:22]

And to see all forms and no forms is to see Tathāgata. This means we have to see both sides, the form and no form. That is to see Tathāgata. So the common understanding of the statement in the Diamond Sutra and Dōgen's interpretation are a little different. The difference is in the case of Diamond Sutra, shōtō is negated. because this is illusion, this is a phantom. So we see we should avoid being deceived by such phantoms because that is a cause of suffering, cause of samsara. So we have to see emptiness or no form of all beings. Then we can see Tathagata, we can see the true reality.

[54:26]

So our common way of viewing things is negated, and we have to see emptiness or no form. Then we are enlightened. But what Dogen wants to say is to see both form and no form, both sides, this one reality from both sides. That is the fact I have been talking, you know. These five skandhas as shohaku, as a karmic person. And yet, at the same time, there's no such thing as called shohaku. At the same time. It's not a matter of I have to negate this karmic side of shohaku and see the emptiness of these five skandhas. But we have to see both at the same time. And this is the same thing as I introduced, what Dogen Zenji said in the Shobogen's Makuhani Haramitsu.

[55:35]

In the Heart Sutra, Makuhani Haramitsu is a kind of Dogen's comment on the Heart Sutra. In the Heart Sutra, it said five skandhas are empty. Then Dogen Zen said, these five skandhas are five examples of prajna. In our common understanding of the Heart Sutra, five skandhas are empty, so we should not cling to those five skandhas. That is the teaching we understand from the Heart Sutra. But Fendogen Denji said five skandhas are five examples or five-fold of prajna. That means we have to become familiar with five skandhas, and we have to take care of five skandhas. We have to value the form of five skandhas.

[56:36]

Five skandhas include things happening within our mind. lupa and sensation, perception, formation and consciousness. That is how we create, you know, duality. So duality is created with by five skandhas. And because five skandhas are prajna, those dualistic idea or thinking also one function of prajna. So we should not just you know, negate or eliminate those dualistic thinking. And yet, if we are deceived by those dualistic thinking produced by five skandhas, then we are completely deluded. So five skandhas create samsara and nirvana.

[57:37]

Our five skandhas are themselves true reality of all beings, our prajna. And yet this prajna creates delusion or illusion, so fat. So fat is our right way, our middle path as our life. How can we live without being deceived by five skandhas and taking care of five skandhas and see the true reality of five skandhas? So, in the case of Dogen Zen's teaching, to see the emptiness of five skandhas and to see five skandhas as our reality of our life are both there. So, see, when you do a Genzoe, you're presenting Dogen's teaching, and every festival you present, ends up with this teaching simultaneously.

[58:42]

Yes. You should bring that picture of the mother-in-law and daughter-in-law every time you do a benzoic. Yeah, I think so. I made a mistake. I didn't bring it. Yeah, I think that is, you know, very unique, not unique, but very mostly essential point of Dogen's teaching, to not seeing our practice as a stage. stages, we are deluded. So first we have to become free from our delusion. And yet, we need to come back to the marketplace that is the world of delusion to help others. This is, I think, Rinzai way of practice. And there's nothing wrong with this method. But Dogen Zen's method, not a method, is difference. both sides should be always together at the same time so there's no you know stages or from starting point and goals but always entire dharma is always revealing in each moment in whatever condition we are please

[60:04]

Coming to Nirvana, to the wife's canvas, is that desirable? If we think it's desirable, we create purity. But Fath Nogan said, it's already there. We are already living in Nirvana. And yet, at the same time, we create samsara. So how can our practices, how can we find Nirvana within samsara? And this is Also about our bodhisattva vows, I also always talk about bodhisattva vow, the first of the four bodhisattva vows, that is, living beings are numberless, we vow to save them. This vow is a strange vow, I think. This means living beings, or sentient beings, or any beings.

[61:16]

And the original word for save or free is do. Do. Shu-jo-mu-hen-se-gan-do. The final word is do. And this do literally means to ferry for a crossover. Crossover means to ferry people cross over this river. And this side is called this shore. And another side is called other shore, or Shigam and Higam.

[62:24]

And this shore is Sansara. And the other shore is Nirvana. And here is a big river between Sansara and Nirvana. And the fact this door was saved or free means to help living beings to cross over this river and enter nirvana, enter the other shore from leaving this shore and let them enter in the other shore. This is the literal meaning of this vow, . And this is numberless. So living beings are numberless. We vow to help them to ferry, to cross over this river.

[63:33]

So Bodhisattva, work or practice of bodhisattva is to help people or beings cross over this river and help them to enter nirvana. But the tricky point is beings are numberless. That means there's no end to this work. And this vow means we, the bodhisattva never enter nirvana until all other beings enter nirvana. That means, this vow means I will be the last person to enter nirvana. You know, this is literal meaning, actual meaning of this vow. And I'm sorry, but you have already taken that vow. So you cannot enter nirvana until all other beings have entered nirvana.

[64:41]

So we'll be the last person. And that makes another strange idea, right? If we are all bodhisattvas, no one is there. All bodhisattvas are working between this shore and other shore. So no one is there. So there's no time we can enter nirvana. This is a very strange thing. And yet this is a very important point of bodhisattva practice. You know, nirvana is empty. All the people, all the bodhisattvas are walking this shore or between this shore and other shore to help others. That means there's no such other shore and there's no such river.

[65:48]

But both samsara and nirvana should be in this shore. where we are now. So unless we find nirvana within samsara, within where we are right now, right here, there's no such place called samsara. I'm sorry, nirvana. So nirvana and samsara are one. It's very basic teaching of Mahayana Buddhism. In Mahayana Buddhism, the Nirvana for Bodhisattva is called Mujusyoneham. Mujusyoneham.

[66:50]

Neham is nirvana, and mu is no, and ju is to stay or to dwell or to abide, and sho is place. So nirvana without a place of staying or abiding. You know, you may be familiar with the expression no abiding. That is the name of Nirvana for Bodhisattva. That means Bodhisattva doesn't stay in samsara because of wisdom. And Bodhisattva does not enter Nirvana because of compassion. So Bodhisattva has no place to stay. Bodhisattva needs to move on or keep working. And that is Nirvana. Well, that is my very basic understanding of Dogen's position within the history of Zen.

[68:03]

And we need to go back to . Oh, and another thing in this paragraph is a mistake. Our expression is shou shaku juu shaku. shaku juu Shaku is a kind of a common expression in Zen literature.

[69:07]

Shou is like a wind. Shaku is mistake. Mistake. Shou is like to get or stick. And shaku is another mistake. So with one mistake, get another mistake is the literal meaning of this expression, sho-shaku-juu-shaku. And Dogen Zenji used this expression several places in Shobo Genzo. and he used this uh in a literal meaning i mean a positive meaning but before talking about dogen's positive meaning we have to understand the fact the original meaning of this expression it's according to dictionary i looked up all the dictionary i have to

[70:23]

check to find the original meaning of this expression. And the first meaning seems, you know, when we make one mistake, we try to fix that mistake, and that makes another mistake, and that problem becomes bigger and bigger. It seems that is the original meaning of this expression. you know, one mistake, another mistake, so the situation becomes worse and worse. And this is the way we live in samsara, you know, the twelve links of causation. From one mistake, try to fix that mistake, we try to make another mistake, and try to fix that, then we make another mistake, and tried to fix it, and yet that was a mistake.

[71:26]

So our condition became worse and worse. That seems to be the first or original meaning of this expression. And the second meaning of this expression according to our dictionary is For example, a skillful craftsman makes some mistake, but if that craftsman is very skillful, the craftsman can take advantage of this mistake to create something new or to make it better. how can I say, if we have enough skill, we can use the mistake as a way to create something new, something better.

[72:38]

That is the second meaning of this expression. And the third meaning, that is... I think the meaning, dogens and uses, is same as, what is the expression, katto. Are you familiar with the word katto? Katto. There is one chapter of Shobo Genzo entitled Kattō. And Kattō means, katsu means, what is katsu? That is kuzu. Do you know kuzu? Kuzu is a plant, creates, makes, you know, problems in the south.

[73:46]

It was imported from Because it was imported from Japan. Kudzu. K-U-D-Z-U. K-U? D-Z-U. Z-E-U. No, D-Z-U. D? Yes. Oh, really? In Japan, this is kudzu. You know, wine. Very... Very strong vine. It's, you know, vine grow so high and it's entwine the big tree and kill the tree. So that is a problem people had in the south. So this is a vine and toe is wisteria. Wisteria? That is another kind of vine.

[74:50]

So katsu and toh both mean vines. And this is usually translated as entanglement. And this is often used in relations with human relationship. When me and someone has some twisted karma, We have some entanglement, and yet we cannot separate. Somehow we have to be together, and yet there is so much entanglement, so we cannot cut off and separate. This kind of difficulty or conflict within human relations is called kattō. Like, you know, father and son, or mother-in-law and daughter-in-law and wife often have that kind of kattō or entanglement.

[76:03]

That is how Dogenzen is used, this word, kattō. So katto has usually used in a negative meaning. But Dogen Zenji in Shobo Genzo Katto, he used this expression in a very positive way as a continuation of Dharma. You know, Dharma was transmitted from Buddha to Mahakasyapa and Mahakasyapa to Ananda and go through China and Japan and to Dogen Zenji and to us. Buddha's practice and verification and his life is entwined with Mahakasyapa's. And we cannot say what which is the end of buddhas and which is the beginning of mahakasyapa's and the same thing between mahakasyapa and ananda so all same dharma continues even though the people are different you know that is entwining or of dharma among through

[77:35]

teacher and student that is how this expression kattō kattō entwined with kattō so everything is kattō all is the same dharma from Shakyamuni to Dogen or from us or to us this is kattō entwined kattō means in Dogen Zenji uses. Please. Is that roughly equivalent to Yogi Buddha, only a Buddha and a Buddha? Yes. Even though Buddha and Mahakasyapa are different people, you know, they, I think that is what Dogen said, you know, as a Yogi Buddha, this is continuation, but each person are different independent people.

[78:41]

But as I go, this is, you know, one lifespan of practice Buddha. From Shakyamuni to us, please. Is it also not just Shakyamuni to Mahakasyapa, but all people with all people? Everyone, not just... I think so. As a reality of all beings, as a network of interdependent origination, not only people but all beings are entwined or interconnected with each other. So kattō is another expression of interconnectedness or connection, connectedness. Dogen Zenji use this sho-shaku, jo-shaku in the same way. Both are the same thing. One mistake, another mistake. So in this case, this is not a mistake.

[79:44]

But Dogen Zenji, Dogen, maybe not Dogen, but Zen people use this negative word, mistake, to, I think, express, how can I say, the nature or reality of no self-nature, nothing fixed. So, in a sense, what I am doing is a mistake. Whatever, as Dogen said, whatever we say is a mistake about this reality of emptiness. If we say it's there, that's a mistake. And if we say nothing is there, that's a mistake. Duality is a mistake. Non-duality is also a mistake if we cling to it. And yet our practice is to express both within our day-to-day actual activities.

[80:49]

So from one side, this action is a mistake. From another side, you know, if we try to fix this mistake and do something else, from another side, this is also a mistake. So mistake after mistake, whatever we do, whatever we try to do, is a mistake from one side or from another side. You know, please. And then he goes on, he goes on, the translation says, whatever we say is a mistake. But presumably, does it mean not the same? It's also a mistake. Yeah, that is Fat Dogen's saying. Yeah, in the end of this Gyōgotsugi, Dogen Zenji quote Seppo, Gensha, and Engo's sayings about all Buddhas are expanding Dharma in the fire, in the flame.

[81:58]

And at the last line of Engo's comment on this koan, he said, Vimala Kirti is defeated. by Seppo and Gensha. And in Dogen Zen's comment, it said, and no, not . He, and he, are both defeated. So saying something is all a mistake. But if we keep silent, that is another mistake. Yeah. So whatever we do, whatever we say is a mistake. And if we don't say anything, that is also a mistake. And yet we cannot live without saying anything or without stopping saying anything. So our life is whatever we do, if we choose not to do anything, all are mistake.

[83:08]

Is it grammatically or emotionally connected? So whatever we say to say, because the separation is as great as... Are those two connected? Are they drawing grammatically on that statement? Separation of what? Well, it's already 11.5, so let me talk. return to Dogen's writings in this paragraph in the afternoon. This morning I just talked about, you know, the meanings of those three materials Dogen used to write, to compose this paragraph, and how did he, you know, how can I say, put these parts together. And what he wants to say is something I still don't really clearly understand.

[84:11]

So I would like to share my tentative understanding. Thank you.

[84:21]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_90.76