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2008.01.21-serial.00112E

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SO-00112E

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The talk focuses on the concept of "non-defilement" and "thusness" in Zen practice, as taught by Dogen Zenji and historical Zen figures like Huinan and Nangaku. The speaker analyzes the teaching that practice and verification in Buddhism should be undefiled, thus emphasizing a non-dualistic approach where inner wisdom and practice are one and the same. This non-defilement is maintained and protected by all Buddhas, according to teachings in both Huineng's discourse and the Lotus Sutra. A deep exploration of Dogen's thoughts on practice verification suggests it transcends conventional categorization and is beyond measurement, representing interconnectedness through the metaphor of a flowering blossom affecting the entire world.

  • Lotus Sutra: This sutra, particularly in its reference to Buddha Shakyamuni's awakening and its instruction to bodhisattvas, underscores the principle of undefilement as protected by all Buddhas.
  • Dogen Zenji's Jiju Zanmai (The Samadhi of Self-fulfillment): Contrasts the measurable and immeasurable aspects of practice, reinforcing that true meditative practice is beyond intellectual comprehension or measure.
  • Shobogenzo Makahannya-haramitsu: Referenced in relation to the integration of the five skandhas with prajna, illustrating the non-duality of practice and wisdom.
  • Huinan and Nangaku's Dialogue: This classic exchange illustrates the non-dualistic nature of practice verification and enlightenment as discussed by Dogen Zenji in various texts.
  • Joshu’s Expression in Tenzo Kyokun: The use of everyday actions, such as preparing food, as manifestations of Buddha nature, highlighting the unity of mundane activities with spiritual practice.

AI Suggested Title: Undefiled Wholeness in Zen Practice

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Transcript: 

Good morning, everyone. This morning I start the second paragraph of page four. Let me read a few pages. Kawashi, or Hyoinen, the sixth ancestor, said, Simply, this non-defilement is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. You are also like this, I am also like this, and all the ancestors in India were also like this. Therefore, Because you are also like this and I am also like this, both master and disciple are Buddhas.

[01:07]

Truly, it is neither you nor I. Within the non-defilement, thusness is I and thisness is I. This I is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. This is the dignified conduct of practice Buddha. Thusness is you and thisness is you. This you is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. This is the dignified conduct of practice Buddha. Because of I am also, the master is outstanding. Because of you are also, the disciple is capable. The master is outstanding and the disciple is capable.

[02:10]

This is the perfection of wisdom and practice of practice Buddha. We should know that business is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. Therefore, I am also, and you are also. Even if the statement of the ancient Buddha, Kawasi, is not I, it cannot be other than you. What has been protected and maintained by practice Buddha and what has been penetrated by practice Buddha is like this. Therefore, we should know that practice verification is never within the distinctions of form and nature, root and branch, and so forth.

[03:14]

The coming and going of practice Buddha without mistake allows the Buddhas to practice. And at the same time, the Buddhas allow practitioners to practice. Here is giving up the body for the sake of the Dharma and giving up the Dharma for the sake of the body. This is never begrudging body and life, and also wholeheartedly begrudging and taking care of body and life. Not only giving up the Dharma for the sake of the Dharma, but also there is the dignified conduct of giving up the Dharma for the sake of the mind. We should never forget that the practice of giving up is boundless.

[04:16]

We should not measure or fathom the great way with using the measurement of Buddha. The measurement of Buddha is only one corner. For example, it is like a flower opens. We should not grope for or question the dignified conducts with holding the measurement of mind. The measurement of mind is one entire aspect. It is like the world. The measurement of one stalk of grass is clearly the mind measurement of Buddhas and ancestors. This is one piece of the truth that recognizes the place of practice Buddha. Even if we thoroughly see that the measurement of one mind includes immeasurable Buddha measurement, when we try to measure moving and stopping, movement and stillness of practice Buddha,

[05:36]

Undoubtedly, there is the face beyond measurement. Because this is the activity beyond measurement, measuring does not hit the mark, is not attainable, and is not reachable. So in paragraph 7, Dogen Zenji quote Huinan, the six ancestors saying in the conversation between Huinan and his disciple Nangaku, that is simply this non-defilement. The Nangak said, we cannot say there is no practice and verification, but practice verification cannot be defiled. Then the Sixth Ancestor said, this non-defilement is, simply this non-defilement is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas.

[06:51]

you are also like this, I am also like this, and all the ancestors in India were also like this. So if we now accept it and affirm Nangak's saying that in practice and enlightenment is there, that means we have to practice and there is enlightenment or verification. as one thing, in the case of Dogen Zenjutsu understanding, practice verification or shusho. So we have to keep practicing endlessly. But if we defy this practice and verification with our desire, then it is not a practice of practice Buddha. So we should be very careful not to defile our practice verification."

[07:54]

Then Huy Ngan said, this non-defilement is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. I don't feel it. It might not be so important, but this saying of Huinan, he said, this under-firement is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. This is the but she show ups go name the show but she show you go name

[09:20]

This is what has been protected, the goal is to protect, need to think of. So I translate this as protected and maintained by all Buddhas. So this undefilement is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. This expression bush uh this is uh addition but bush is the expression from the lotus sutra actually this is the part of the name buddha shakyamuni buddha the eternal buddha eternal shakyamuni buddha expand in the lotus sutra this is from the first chapter of the Lotus Sutra.

[10:23]

In the beginning of the Lotus Sutra, before saying anything, Buddha was sitting in samadhi and emit the light from his hair here, forehead, and illuminate entire world. And one of the bodhisattvas said, you know, this is a sign or an omen of Buddha is going to teach some very important dharma. And then someone asked, then what is that dharma? Then this bodhisattva, it said, In this translation, it said, at that time, the Buddha, not Bodhisattva, but the Buddha, the Buddha Sun Moon Light, Sun Moon Light, preached the Great Vehicle Sutra, Daijo Kyo, Great Vehicle Sutra, Mahayana Sutra, called

[11:31]

innumerable meanings. This innumerable meanings is a name of Samadhi Buddha was in. And another name of this great Mahayana Sutra is the law or Dharma by which bodhisattvas are instructed. So this teaching is for to instruct bodhisattvas and which The Buddha's watch over and keep in mind. This feature, the Buddha watch over and keep in mind, is a translation of go-nen. So, what Buddha has been protected, or watch over and keep in mind. A different English translation, but originally expression is the same. So this is the name of the Dharma Shakyamuni expanded in the Lotus Sutra.

[12:43]

I think it helps us to understand what Huna is saying here. So what Huna is saying is something about the teaching in the Lotus Sutra is a Mahayana teaching to instruct bodhisattvas. And that dharma has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas to teach bodhisattvas. And the essence of this teaching, according to Huinan, our sixth ancestor and Nangaku, is this undefiledment. practice without defilement. The expression, Chinese and Japanese expression, Zen na.

[13:51]

Zen is like a dye to dye our fabric. And now is... What is now? It's stain or dirt. So it is like when we put our clothes in the muddy water. It's colored and it become dirty. That is a meaning. And this means, you know, we measure what we do. We evaluate what we do as a subject or observer. This duality is a source of this defilement. So that is a meaning.

[14:53]

Non-duality is a meaning, but this is not a literal translation. literal translation is without stain or without defilement. And another expression Shuinan or Sixth Ancestor said is, I am also like this, you are also like this, that is, Yaku no ze. Go yaku no ze. No is you. Yaku is also. No is like. Ze is this. And ware is I, same expression.

[16:01]

Important point that cannot be translated is this word, nyose, like this. This is same word or same expression with, you know, yesterday, I talked about tensachiness, about as a shoho jisso, But ten suchness is ten myōze. So this myōze is a word for vastness. So, you know, I cannot translate this one. This, you know, because in the context, Fatih Yunan said, I am like this and you are like this. That's all. But this word means thusness. So you are thusness and I am thusness. That is how Dogen Zenji read this sentence. But in the context of conversation, their conversation, this also means you are like this, I am like this.

[17:13]

We are the same. And another thing to read the next paragraph is this nyo-ze can be divided into two parts, of course, nyo and ze. Like and this. That is how Dogen Zenji leads. And nyo is thus, and ze is this. Like this. So, next paragraph. Therefore, because you are also like this, means you are nothing other than thusness, the true reality of all beings, and I am also thusness. Therefore, this is Dogen, therefore both Huinan and Nangaku are Buddhas, not as individual person, but

[18:25]

as their practice, or as the practice Buddha, or gyobutsu, they are both Buddhas. Because that is, that their practice express this thusness, the reality of all beings. And this, according to Nagarjuna, this reality of all beings is itself nirvana. But we create samsara. because of, you know, our three poisonous minds. But when we let go of our three poisonous minds, you know, things, it's there, that things there is reality of all beings. There's no illusion. Illusion is created by ourselves. And we let go. We are right within the net reality of all beings, network of interdependent origination.

[19:27]

That is what we do in our Zazen. So, both Hinan and Nangaku are Buddha, because both are Nyoze. Truly, it's neither you nor I. It's not individual person, you or I. But their practice is Buddha. And their body and mind, that is five skandhas, are Buddha. As Dogen said in the Makahani Haramitsu, You know, five skandhas are fivefold prajna. Because five skandhas, you know, themselves express impermanence and eagerness, emptiness.

[20:36]

So those five skandhas are themselves prajna. That means we are prajna if we are not deceived by our three-positive mind. Within this non-defilement, thusness is I and thisness is I. This is what I said, you know, Dogen Zen divides nyo and ze. Nyo-ze as a compound means thusness, or like thisness. And within this thusness, there are two sides, nyo and ze. a new as one word can uh mean tatata that means dustiness as it easiness and the dogans in separate these two part and he read this as business that means

[21:47]

You know, I often say, I'm Shohaku, and I'm a Buddhist Zen, Soto Zen Buddhist priest, born in Japan in 13 year, and I have been practicing, you know, this kind of special, not special, but strange practice, and studying this kind of strange teachings. That's why I become like this. You know, I cannot exchange my way of life with other people. I have certain particular karma. So I think I'm a pretty unique person. And each one of us are the same. That is, you know, this-ness, this particular person that is unique and different from all other people. We cannot alternate. And yet, you know, at the same time, you know, this is not shohaku. There's no such things called shohaku.

[22:49]

This is just as it is. In that case, in that sense, we are the same. We are all the same, not only human beings, but all beings are just as it is, just as they are. So this, we can say, this is a side of emptiness. And this is the side of form. Form has, each form has its own particular features. And yet all those forms or karmic nature is always together with dustness. Dust means emptiness. That means there's no such individual entity. And Dogen Zenji in Shobo Genzo Busho or Buddha Nature, he called this U-Busho.

[24:00]

And this side is called Mu. Mu-Busho and U-Busho. So these are two sides of one reality. Actually, it's not two sides of one reality. Both are 100%. So it's not 50 and 50. It's both 100%. That is what Dogen wants to say. And they are always one, always together. And yet both... uh hundred percent so when we see you know they disappear and when we see they know is despair so when i you know talk about this person you know my vastness or no disappear i'm just hundred percent who was born in japan in certain uh time and living in and uh

[25:12]

studying and practicing in certain ways so i am limited please is no yes who is d d and not b So here, in this sentence, Dogen Zenji divided this Nyoze into two parts and said, what he writes is Nyo Nyo-go and Ze-go. Nyo is I, and ze is I. And I translate this business, I mean, business is I. Business is I. The expression is Nyo go, ze go.

[26:31]

Right? Nyo go, ze go, yes. And this Nyo go and ze go, is what has been maintained, protected and maintained by all Buddhas. This, you know, this is the way all beings are. As, you know, as I said when I talked about ten suchness, each and every beings are unique. That is, you know, first five thusness means it has, everything has its own form, nature, body, energy, and work or function. And yet, those each and every unique beings can exist as a unique being only within relationship or connection with other beings, all other beings. That is what this nyōze means.

[27:35]

Nyō means each one of us is unique being. And there's no such unique beings really exist without relationship with all other beings. That is what nyo or emptiness means. So this way of being, nyo and ze, is According to Mahayana Buddhist teaching, this is the way things are. This is Dharma. This is the way all beings are, this true reality of all beings. And this is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. And this is the dignified conduct of practice Buddha.

[28:37]

So, in our practice, we try to express both sides completely in each and every activity we do, both sitting, practicing the zendo, or practice in the Buddha Hall, or practice in the kitchen, or practice in anywhere else. We try to fully express both sides at the same time within one action. Please. How do you express both sides at the same time? When there's this, there's no thus, and when there's thus, there's no this. This is a very good question. express this kind of a tricky, logically very tricky thing. But to express this, to explain this, when I talked on Buddha nature, he also talked about ubu-sho and mubu-sho, or Buddha nature and karmic nature.

[29:53]

These are both 100%. And to explain that I show a picture entitled My Wife and My Mother-in-Laws. Do you know that picture? One picture that is a portrait of one old lady and young lady together. And yet this entire portrait is old lady. Then we see old lady This entire painting is portrait of old lady. But when we see the young lady, this is 100% the portrait of young lady. So both are 100%. So they are always together. And yet this young lady and old lady never meet each other.

[30:56]

Because when we see old lady, young lady disappear. When we see young lady, you know, old lady disappeared. They are always together because that is exactly the same thing. And yet when one appear, another disappear. And when another one, another disappear, this one disappear. And yet they are always there. It's kind of logically a very strange thing, but that is what Dogen wants to say. Not only Dogen, but in Zen texts, this kind of expression, we can find this kind of expression like that. Well, he's going to use some of those expressions, always together but never meet each other. Or men and things are not two. Yeah. Yes. Yes, same thing. Please.

[31:58]

There's a similar concept in neuroscience. Neuro? Neuroscience. Oh. The ideas of consciousness. We all have various levels of consciousness. Going on and on. Not that. It seems to me impossible from a scientific point of view. Well, it's not possible, but it's reality. That is how Dogens or Buddhists see our life. You know, karmic nature as a personal individual person and a universal nature that is as a one manifestation of universal life are always together. You know, like, you know, all the living beings on this planet is from one, you know, single-celled living animate being, and all living beings share the same system, but each

[33:17]

living beings are different. And yet they are living this same, not living, but manifestation of this same system of life. So that is what this means, I think. And so when we, for example, we make a prostration. This action of making prostration is completely my practice. So I try to be attentive and 100% focus on this one action. And when I really do all my body and mind are really making prostration, then shohaku disappeared, only this bowing or this prostration.

[34:26]

And that is when this dustness appeared or manifested within shohaku's action. So within prostration, this entire shohaku's body and mind But somehow Shōhaku disappeared and only this action of prostration is there. That is what is called Gyōbutsu. So Shōhaku is not Buddha anyway, but this prostration is Buddha's practice. And this prostration is practice Buddha or Gyōbutsu. But if I do the same action for the sake of this person's profit, then this is not gyoubutsu at all.

[35:27]

This is my action for the sake of shouhaku. That is the difference. Please. It is one of the things that the text says. that you can tell the difference, you can see the difference from outside. When a person is doing a prostration, and they are already doing that, and they have forgotten themselves, you can see, you can draw. I think so, if we have seen, if we have eyes to see that difference. When we are not careful, cannot see, you know, all people do the same action. But if our eyes are open, we can see the difference. Please? So the picture of your grandmother and your daughter, the picture of karmic nature? Both. Karmic nature and religion.

[36:27]

Yeah. Are one. Are one, hundred percent. And yet completely different. and they never meet each other. And he repeats the same thing. Thusness about you. Thusness is you, and thisness is you. And that you, that is The combination of nyo and ze is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. This is the dignified conduct of practice Buddha, and because of I am also, I am also, also means I am thus, or I am thusness, and you are thusness.

[37:30]

Master is outstanding and disciple is capable is a very common expression to praise, you know, good teacher and good student. This refers to Huinan and Nangaku. So here, Dogen Zenji shows, you know, this gyōbutsu is continuous without separation between teacher and student. Both are gyōbutsu or practice with Buddha. And yet, as I and you, Huinan and Nangaku are two different persons. and yet as a gyobut, they are one Buddha.

[38:39]

The master is outstanding and the disciple is capable. This is the perfection of wisdom and practice of practice Buddha. Perfection of wisdom and practice is a translation of Myo-gyo-soku. Myo is brightness. And myo, brightness, refers to wisdom. And gyo is practice. And soku is full or satisfied or complete. And this word, myo-gyo-soku, is One of the ten names of Buddha, ten names of Buddha, Myo-gyo-soku, that also refer to, you know, they are both Buddhas as a gyobutsu.

[39:53]

We should know that thisness is what has been protected and maintained by all Buddhas. Therefore, I am also and you are also. So, when we allow the bodhicitta, body-mind, and take the Bodhisattva vow and receive the Bodhisattva precept and practice Bodhisattva practice. We are children of Buddha and we are protected by all Buddhas. Even if the statement of the ancient Buddha Kaoshi is not I, it cannot be other than you. This is a strange saying, but this means I and you are completely the same, so when you appear, I disappear.

[41:10]

When I appear, you disappear. You are included within I. And when we see Nangaku, Huinan disappears. And when Huinan appears, Nangaku disappears. As Gyaobutsu, they are one, completely one. And yet as I and you, they are separated. What has been protected and maintained by practice Buddha and what has been penetrated by practice Buddha is like this. So this is the source of dignity of each and every practice activity. When we express both no and they, this-ness and thus-ness in our action, in our behavior, we see the Buddhadharma.

[42:28]

That is living Buddhadharma. That is why we, not we, but for example, You know, in the story of Shaliputra and Asaji, when Asaji was walking on the street holding an Oryoki, an Oryoki bowl, and before Shaliputra became a Buddha's disciple, when he saw this monk walking on the street, he was inspired and walked after this monk and asked who was this monk's teacher. That was how, you know, Shari Putra became Buddha's disciple. That was what I, that is the story I introduced on Saturday morning. You know, in this case, in this Asaji's conduct or action of just walking on the street,

[43:35]

holding Oryoki, shows or expresses both his personality, individual personality, his way of life, his aspiration, his bodhicitta. And at the same time, his action or conduct shows what Buddha taught. both within both within one action both are there that is a source of dignity dignity and beauty of each and every action so that is their idea of dog and genji's not idea but teaching or meaning of dog and genji's practice each and every action whether in the Zen-do or Buddha Hall or any other places, we should practice with this attitude.

[44:44]

Then each and every action becomes Iggy or dignified conduct. So it's not really, I mean, it's not really a mannerism or formalism. in order to use, in order to how to use our body, we learn the forms. But that is not the end of our practice. Not the end, but the meaning of that kind, you know, the formal practice is to learn how to use our body in order to free express both sides of ourselves as Dharma. So it's not an easy thing. Next paragraph.

[45:55]

Therefore, we should know that practice verification is never within the distinction of form and nature, root and branch, and so forth." Again, he discussed this is not a matter of thinking or theory, Buddhist theory, as nature and form. Nature is something essential. Form is something which has shape, something concrete. And root is base and branch is like a phenomena, each and every things we can see. And root is something we cannot see. And these are the basic kind of principle of Buddhist philosophy. But what Dogen is saying is this gyobutsu has nothing to do with such kind of a categorization or conceptualization, but it's actual activity.

[47:08]

The coming and going of practice buddha, coming and going means each and every actions without mistake allows the Buddhas to practice, and at the same time, the Buddhas allow practitioners to practice. So within one action, from one side, now I'm talking about Dogen's teaching. This is my practice now. And I talk about my understanding of Dogen's teaching. And if I'm successful, I put my entire energy into my talking. And my talking is not so different with Fat Dog's saying, trying to say.

[48:16]

Then through my Shohaku's body and mind and speech, Dogen is talking. So within my action, Dogen Zenji is talking. I hope so. I'm not sure. And through Dogen Zenji's writing, the Dharma is talking. So within this one action, Dharma is talking, Dogen is talking, and I am talking. So Buddha allow me to talk in this way. And yet, because I'm really studying Dogen and practicing, following Dogen's teaching, Dogen is still alive. So in a sense, I make Dogen Zenji alive now. Not me, not Shohaku, but my practice, my effort.

[49:20]

And by sharing my practice and effort with people, Dogen Zenji is still alive. If no one studies and no one practices, Dogen is dead. Dogen is a person in the past. It's already gone. But because people are studying and practicing and living based on his teachings within our practice, Dogen Zenji is still alive and Buddha is still alive. So, by studying Buddha's or Dogen Zenji's teaching, I can practice Buddha's teaching. And yet, and also because of our practice and our study, Buddha allow, our practice allow Buddha alive, allow Dogen Zenji still vivid within this moment. So Buddha allow me to practice and talk in this way.

[50:25]

And by my practice and study, I allow Buddha, you know, alive. So Buddha and Shohaku is working together within this one action. Without mistake, Without mistake, without fail? Without fail, without exception. And next he said, here is, so there is Shohaku and Buddha, or the practitioner and Buddha. And here is giving up the body for the sake of the Dharma. and giving up the Dharma for the sake of the body. You know, we usually think we should give up our body for the sake of Dharma.

[51:31]

This is a common way of saying, you know, not for me, but for Dharma. But here, Dogen then said both. For the sake of Dharma, we give up our body and mind and get For the sake of body and mind, we give up dharma. That means within gyobutsu, within practice of gyobutsu, mind, body and mind, and dharma is exactly the same thing. So actually, we cannot give up one thing for the sake of another. And next sentence is the same thing. This is never begrudging body and life, and also wholeheartedly begrudging and taking care of body and life. This is also from the Lotus Sutra.

[52:35]

Here is it. The first expression, fu shaku shinmyo, never begrudging body and life, is from the third chapter of Shobogen, I mean, Lotus Sutra. The third chapter is entitled Parable, which says, If any have zealously progressed, constantly maintained kind kindly hearts and never spared body and life then you may preach it to them if you you find such a person who don't begrudge his body and life for the sake of dharma you can preach this dharma to that person that is what the lotus tries saying

[53:45]

And another one, Dogen Zenji made change. This, that is wholeheartedly, wholeheartedly grudging. This expression appeared in chapter 13 of the Lotus Sutra. The title of the chapter is Exhortation to Hold Firm. Does it make sense? Exhortation to hold firm means the Lotus Sutra said we should keep this sutra. Copy and remember and chant, recite this sutra and share with other people. The sentence in the Lotus Sutra is as follows.

[54:49]

We will not love body and life. We will not love body and life, but only care for the supreme way. This only care for is the same expression as Dogen Zenji used here. That is tanshaku. Pan is only, shaku is begrudge, or care for. In the Lotus Sutra it said, only care for the supreme way, that means awakening. And they don't care for body and life. But Dogen Zenji made change, and he said, only begrudge body and life. You know, when we read the Lotus Sutra, there are some parts that sound like, you know, the teaching in the Lotus Sutra is kind of fanatic.

[56:05]

But, you know, we should give up our life for the sake of Dharma. We should, well. But Dogen, in Dogen Zen teaching, that part is disappeared, I think. So he changed the expression in the Lotus Sutra and he, you know, picked up two sides of one teaching. That is, we should not begrudge our body and mind. And yet, we should wholeheartedly begrudge our care for our body and mind. Because without our body and mind, there's no Dharma. Without our healthy body and mind, we cannot practice. Practice Buddha can be there only when we have body and mind. So body and mind is very important in the teaching of Dogen Zenji.

[57:13]

Please. So are you using begrudge and careful to listen? These are two translations of one word, shaku, as a negative meaning to begrudge. But to begrudge means to careful, to value it. So I don't know if it is a better translation, or we have to use different words in each case. It's very difficult to translate Dogen. He used the same word in a negative way and a positive way. But many English words cannot be used in that way. That is a problem of translation. So he said, this is the meaning of the expression in the Lotus Sutra, never begrudging body and life, and wholeheartedly begrudging or careful and take care of body and life.

[58:33]

Because without body and life, we cannot practice. not only giving up the Dharma for the sake of the Dharma, but also there is the dignified conduct of giving up the Dharma for the sake of the mind. This is also the same thing, actually. The Dharma and mind, in this case, capital M Mind and Dharma is really the same thing. But I think the important point here is this word, giving up, to give up. Sha. Give up or let go. This means when we have to make choice, you know, usually we...

[59:39]

choose something we want, something we think this should be done. But I think this teaching means 51 we should give up instead of 51 we want to do. So the standard of making choice, Doreen's saying here is give up. Fat we should give up. That means fat we should keep. And the practice of give up or sha is boundless. Boundless is a translation of muryou. So he's talking about practice of sha, or giving up.

[60:57]

And he said, sha is mu, ryo. And of course, mu is no, and ryo. Here I translate boundless. But he used this word often in this paragraph. So I have to explain what this ryo means. It's not so difficult a word. This 量 means to measure. And also a device to measure, like a ruler or a cup to measure the amount of liquid. That first second is the device to measure. and the third is amount of that thing that is measured so it has three meanings the activity of to measure and second is device to measure like a cup or a scale and the third is the amount of the that thing to be that is measured like a

[62:21]

one gallon of water. That is a ryo of the water. It is used as mu-ryo, means there's no way to measure. In order to measure, there must be some limited amount of something. And we need some device or some rules or scale to measure this thing. Then we can measure... So we need two things to measure something. One is that thing. And that should be... That should not be infinite. Because we cannot measure something infinite. It should be are finite, and we need accurate rules or scale to measure this thing.

[63:29]

And mu-ryo in this case means there's no way to measure, possibly because there's no, how can I say, Because this is infinite, there's no way to measure. If this is infinite, there's no way to measure it. Even we have accurate measure, accurate rule. But if we don't have rule, there's no way to measure this. And the third possibility is if we have no intention to measure it, even if it is here and this is there, we don't measure it. And another possibility is the thing that should be measured and the rule is one and the same thing.

[64:34]

So there are several possibilities. Please. It seems like it comes back to the word that's being translated as defilement. the word measure. And both, I just keep thinking about language, like the way language is used to account that always comes up short. And this has been all I was really talking about. Yeah, to measure is a kind of defilement, because, you know, in order to measure, there are two things, a person for measure and a rule and a thing that should, that to be measured. This separation is a problem. So this measure is some kind of defilement. We want to measure. And as a Buddhist term, this is used as a . Shin is mind.

[65:43]

And so Shin-Muryo-Shin, for... What is the English translation of Shin-Muryo-Shin? Boundless mind, yeah. That's why I use this boundless here. That is Ji-Hi-Ki-Sha. Ji is... Ji and hi and ki and sha. Ji and hi are both compassion. But ji, you know, Japanese word for compassion is jihi. But Ji is one side of compassion, that is to give happiness or pleasure. And He literally means sadness.

[66:44]

But He is a side of compassion to take the pain or suffering or sadness away from the person. So Ji and He are two sides of compassion. And the key is delight or pleasure. And the sha is the same sha to throw away or give up, but this sha is to be neutral. That means without hatred or attachment. That is Sha. Those four are called Four Boundless Minds. And this is a very old Buddhist term from Pali Canon.

[67:47]

In Sanskrit, these four shimuryo-shin is kathru, and means immeasurable. means four. So in the rest of this paragraph, this word is an important word. He said, we should never forget that the practice of giving up is boundless. This is muryo, no way to measure. We should not measure or fathom this both measure and fathom is ryo.

[68:51]

Fathom the great way is using the measurement of Buddha. So we cannot use Buddha as a rules to measure this great way, because this great way and Buddha is exactly the same thing. We cannot use anything to measure this great way. Great way is muhyo, boundless, and Buddha is boundless. So we cannot use Buddha as a measurement to measure this great way. The measurement of Buddha is only one corner. For example, it is like a flower opens. This flower opens is also another old Zen expression.

[69:56]

K is flower. K is flower. And kai is open. And sekai is word. Sekai is a common Japanese word that means, Japanese word that means world, even in modern Japanese. But the interesting point is se means time, and kai is space. So sekai in Japanese means time and space. And ki is to arise or to get up or wake up.

[71:15]

This expression means in the early spring, Dogen Zenji used one flower, one plum blossom. Plum blossom is the first flower that blooms in the spring. Even in the very early spring, even when the entire earth is still covered with snow, plum blossom can open. So this is the first sign of spring. And this expression, the world wakes up and the world becomes spring. That means in the winter, everything is sleeping. But in the spring, everything wakes up and starts activities.

[72:22]

That is the meaning of this expression. And this world is used in the next sentence. Not next, but it said, the measurement of mind is one entire aspect. It is like the world. So Dogenzen used keikai and world. He divided these two and used in each sentence. And this means And often in the early spring, even though the entire world is still covered with snow, only one tiny plum blossom blooms. Then that small plum blossom, small flower, influences the entire world. And that is the beginning of the spring.

[73:24]

tiny flower influenced the entire world and makes the world as spring. And Nyojo Zenji and Dogen Zenji use this analogy of plum blossom as Buddha's awakening. When one person, Shakyamuni, awakened, that is like a plum blossom bloom in the early spring. you know, no flower at all. And yet, after that, you know, Buddha's awakening completely changed the entire world. That is the idea or image of this expression, flower open and the world wake up. And this same idea is expressed by Dogen Zenji in Jiju Zanmai. about our Zazen, not about Buddha's awakening.

[74:34]

You know, in the very beginning of the Jiju Yuzanmai, Dogen Rinpoche said, when we sit displaying Buddha Mudra with our entire body and mind, this entire world becomes enlightened. That is the expression of the same meaning of this saying of Zen. You know, one tiny thing changes or influences the entire world. When one thing even slightly changes, this entire world is changed. That means this one thing and this entire world is completely connected. So within this network of interdependent origination, if one small part changed, this entire network changed. That is the idea of this expression, flower opens, the world wake up.

[75:38]

Here we are. The measurement of Buddha is only one corner, like a small flower. For example, it is like a flower opens. We should not grope or question the dignified conducts with holding the measurement of mind. So we should not try to measure our practice activity using the measurement of mind because our practice is like a tiny flower. Still our practice and this entire universe is really connected. So we cannot really, this mind means this Buddha's mind or Buddha's life that is this entire network of interdependent origination itself, that is called mind.

[76:53]

And mind, even though our practice is a tiny part of that mind, that entire network, still this mind and this entire network is one thing. So the measurement of mind is this entire network, it is like the world. So our practice and Buddha mind is like one flower and entire world. When one flower opens, entire world wake up and makes change. So even though our practice, our activity is tiny and not so strong, still there is a possibility to change the entire world. So, even though, you know, our practice is not so strong like Buddha's practice or Buddha's teaching, Buddha's activity or Dogen Zenji's, please.

[78:06]

So, I want to ask about causation. So, the Plum Blot doesn't cause the spring. Plum blossom indicates that the spring is going to come. Yeah. It's a sign of that energy is working. So, in the practice you're talking about, the practice of nasa is a sign that this... Yes. Yeah, it's not... It doesn't mean my practice changes the world, but my practice is a sign of this universal movement. And yet, whether I practice or not, it depends on me. So even my willpower is a very tiny part of it, I need to use my determination to practice, even though that is a really tiny part of this, you know, universal movement.

[79:22]

And still, without my personal effort, you know, I cannot flower. I cannot bloom my flower. But my personal effort is a really tiny part of this universal movement. And also my personal power or life force is a part of this universal life force. You have something to say? Yeah, you can say so. I mean, because me and this world is one thing, all connected. So one flower blooming means entire tree is blooming. So one flower blooming means entire world is blooming, in a sense.

[80:30]

So, you know, there are the same poems. that is someone in the early spring, someone walked around the mountains and fields to find the sign of the spring. And he couldn't find any sign of the spring. But when he returned to his home, he found one I'm not sure it was a plum blossom or not, plum blossom blooming. And he said, I mean, the poem said, I found a spring and this is enough. That means one plum blossom blooming is, in a sense, the spring itself. And the world is

[81:34]

the spring of the world entire world is there within this one from person. Thank you. Anyway, what he's doing saying here is we can't measure the activity of practice Buddha. But he tried to express this with using so many, you know, Zen poetic expressions. So it's difficult to patch his thing. Then the measurement of one stalk of grass. is clearly the mind measurement of Buddhas and ancestors. Of course, this one stalk of grass came from Koan's story, not story, but Joshu's expression.

[82:43]

I use a stalk of grass as a golden body of Buddha. And Dogen Zenji used this Joshu's expression in Tenzo Kyokun and said, we use one stalk of vegetables to express the golden body of Buddha. And we invite golden body of Buddha. What did he say? I'm sorry, I forget. But one stalk of green or one stalk of vegetables or grass And golden body of Buddha, that means entire world, entire Dharma world, are one thing. So, the stroke of grass means not only the grass, but each and everything within this world is clearly the mind measurement of Buddhas and ancestors.

[83:53]

And this also refers to the layman's expression, bright, bright glass, bright, bright Buddha ancestor's mind. Are you familiar with that expression? Don't mind. This is one piece of the truth that recognizes the trace of practice Buddha. Even if we thoroughly see that the measurement of one mind includes immeasurable Buddha measurement, when we try to measure moving and stopping movement and stillness of practiced Buddha, undoubtedly there is the faith beyond measurement."

[85:00]

So, what he's saying is same as he says in the Jiju-Yuzamnai, in the very end of Jiju-Yuzamnai. He says something like, You should know that even if all the Buddhas in the Ten Directions, as numerous as the sons of the Ganges River, together engage the full power of their Buddha wisdom, they could never reach the limit or measure or comprehend the virtue of one person's Zazen. So in the Jizu-Zamai, he talks about our Zazen. And even using Buddha's wisdom, the virtue of our Zazen cannot be measured.

[86:01]

And here, he's doing the same thing. The virtue of practice Buddha, that means virtue of our practice, cannot be measured even using the measurement of Buddha or mind, or Dharma, or whatever. Because our practice and Dharma and Buddha are one and the same thing. There's no way to measure because there's no two things. This is really one thing. Because this is activity beyond measurement. So our practice is beyond measurement. Measuring does not hit the mark, is not attainable, and is not reachable. So he put emphasis on this point.

[87:08]

We cannot measure because we can't observe. We cannot see this practice as an observer. There's no observer. only practice. We are completely within that practice, that action. So shōhaku cannot observe what shōhaku is doing because there is no shōhaku beside this doing. And Sawaki Kōdoro, she expressed this about our zazen. In a friend he says, zazen is good for nothing. When we think about what the Zen is good for, we are observing the Zen and we are trying to evaluate this Zen as an outsider who is not really sitting. But when we sit, we are part of the Zen.

[88:10]

So there's no way we can measure the virtue or merit of our practice. Because there's no measurement, there's no separation between person who want to know the value and this practice. That is the meaning of Sakyoside expression, zazen, it could for nothing. Any question? Please. I think you missed a point you were making about Jihikisha. HENG KUO- Point? Yeah, the connection between life and death. HENG KUO- Oh, Jihikisha is called simu-ryo-shin. That means four boundless mind. And the expression Dogen used is this word muryo in here.

[89:14]

That is only connection. So that means this boundless or no measurement, there's no way to measure it, is important in not only Dogen's teaching but from early Buddhist teaching. That means beyond our way our ability to measure things. Does it make sense? Okay. Please. In here? No. No.

[89:49]

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