Good morning, everyone. This morning I start to read paragraph 10, page 6. Let me read a few paragraphs. Therefore, Shakyamuni Buddha said, I and other Buddhas in the ten directions are able to know these things. Therefore, the very moment of being able to penetrate and the very moment of being able to know are identically faced of being-slash-time. If I were different from the other Buddhas in the ten directions, how could I enable the utterance of and other Buddhas in the ten directions to manifest?

[01:16]

Because the ten directions do not exist at this particular place, The ten directions are within this particular place. For this reason, the true reality Meeting with all beings means that spring entering flowers. A person meet with spring. The moon illuminating the moon. A person meeting the person, him or herself. Or a person sees water. These are equally pointing to the principle of seeing each other. Therefore, the true reality, please change form to reality, this type miss.

[02:19]

Therefore, the true reality starting under the guidance of the true reality again, not form. So therefore, the true reality, studying under the guidance of the true reality, is a Buddha ancestor transmitting Dharma from a Buddha ancestor. This is nothing other than all beings giving the prediction to all beings. Only a Buddha transmits the Dharma for the sake of only a Buddha. Together with a Buddha transmits the Dharma for the sake of together with a Buddha. Therefore, there are birth and death, coming and going. Therefore, there are arising body-mind, practice, awakening, and nirvana.

[03:25]

Upholding, arousing body-mind, practice, awakening, and nirvana, we study and grasp the true human body, that is, being born and dying, coming and going. To do so, we hold firm and we let go. With this as their lifeblood, the flowers open and fruits are born. With this as their bones and marrow, Mahakasyapa transmitted the Dharma to Ananda. Such a form of wind, rain, water and fire is nothing other than the complete penetration Such nature of blue, yellow, red, and white is nothing other than the complete penetration.

[04:29]

Depending upon this body and energy, ordinary people are transformed and enter into the sacred. Depending upon the result and recompense we go beyond Buddha and transcend ancestors. Depending upon the causes and conditions, we grasp grains of sand and make them into gold. Depending upon the result and recompense, the dharma is transmitted and the rope is entrusted. The Tathāgata said, for whom I expound the seal of true reality. This should be expressed as follows. For whom I practice the seal of true form. For whom I listen to the seal of true nature.

[05:36]

For whom I verify the seal of true body. we should study this utterance in this way. We should completely penetrate this utterance in this way. The essential meaning of this is, for example, it is like a bead whirling around a ball and a ball whirling around a bead. Does it make sense? Yeah. Pardon? Yeah. My English is not so good, but it should be improved. So this chapter of Shôvô Genzô entitled Shôhô Jissô, Dôgenzenji is using the expression in the Lotus Sutra.

[06:57]

And he tried to show us or describe the reality of all beings concretely as our own life and our own world and our own relationship between ourselves and all beings within this world. And how we study and how we practice and how we transmit the Dharma from concrete teacher to student and how we can share the Dharma with all beings. So first we need to study the Lotus Sutra. Then we study how Dogen used the expressions in the Lotus Sutra and twist and change the meaning and apply it in our actual life.

[08:01]

Please. Does penetration perhaps refer to a deep understanding beyond I think so. Complete understanding. And actual complete understanding is the reality itself. That means we are, you know, one of the all beings. And we ourselves as one of the all beings completely become all beings. That is complete understanding. So understanding and manifestation or genjo is the same thing. We become one with the reality because we are part of the reality. It's possible. That is complete understanding. penetration or understanding, and that is possible only in our practice, not our intellectual thinking.

[09:04]

I think that is what Dogen used this expression, complete penetration or gujin. He's saying here that each and every being become all being, become true reality. Yes. And also, from the very beginning, they are the same thing. Like the young lady and the old lady. Here in paragraph 10, Dogen Zenji quotes another expression from the Lotus Sutra. This is from the verse right after... the expression, only Buddha together with Buddha can completely penetrate the true reality of all beings.

[10:12]

usually or almost all Buddhist sutra has a part of prose and part of verse. And this expression, only a Buddha together with a Buddha can fathom the reality of all beings, is the sentence from the part of prose. And right after that, the sutra states the same thing as a verse. And this sentence, I and other Buddhas in the ten directions are able to know these things, is from the verse. And the verse is as follows. So within this verse, Zarathustra restates the same thing as it is said in the part of prose.

[11:21]

So it's kind of a repetition. The verse part is as follows. Immeasurable are the world heroes. World heroes mean Buddhas. embracing gods and men in the world among all the living creatures no one can know the buddhas the buddha's power emancipations and contemplations and the buddha's other laws or dharmas no one is able to measure of Iowa Waiori, I followed countless Buddhas and perfectly trod the light ways of the profound and wonderful Dharma, which are difficult to perceive and perform."

[12:29]

So Buddha, as a result of long practice, perceive the very difficult dharma to understand. Then, during infinite courtesies of kalpas, after pursuing all these, having obtained the on the wisdom throne, he was perfectly able to understand. This is Buddha's saying. He was able to perfectly, completely understand this difficult dharma. And such great effect as these, the meaning of every nature and form, nature and form, this is part of ten suchness.

[13:36]

And next, he said, I and other Buddhas in the universe alone can understand these things. These things means ten-subjectness or true reality of all beings. So this quote, I and other Buddhas in the ten directions are able to know these things. And the The statement Dogen quote in the very beginning of this chapter of Shobo Genzo is two sentences stating the same thing. That is a point. Now, one same thing is mentioned in two sentences, in the two different places in the sutra.

[14:41]

So the fact is only one, but there are two sentences about this only one reality. Then I started to talk on paragraph 11. Therefore, the very moment of being able to penetrate, this being able to penetrate it from the first quote, and the very moment of being able to know this is from this quote, actually these two implies the same thing. And identically, so of course, These are identical. Identically faced first facet of being time. This being time is uji. Facet is men-men.

[15:44]

He said men-men no uji. The very moment is translation of . This is important expression in Dogen's writing, . Shoto means it's very, sho means true, and to means to hit. So it's very moment. And I think you know the expression inmo.

[16:51]

Inmo is often translated as such or thus. actually this has no meaning, this such or thus or how and time. That means that very moment of thusness or suchness. So we are really become one with thusness and suchness. So both two different expressions or sentences about one reality at the very moment of being able to penetrate and at the very moment of being able to know both about all Buddhas. I mean, that's me, Shakyamuni.

[17:55]

and all Buddhas. Ah, men is face, and repetition, face, face. That means each face of who is being. Ji is time. Of course, this expression, Uji, came from Shobo Genzo Uji. And in that writing, he said, U and Ji, or being and time, is really one thing. Being is time. Time is being. This is one thing. So two separate sentences express the one truth at a different time. when we read the Lotus Sutra, the first expression appear in the part of the prose and second expression appear in the part of verse.

[19:12]

So when we read a sutra, we read the same expression at a different time, separate time, but those are expressing the same thing. These two different things express the same thing. This time and being, and this time and being are different. and yet they are the same, completely the same, completely the same and yet completely different. That is same as the expression of not one and not two. Not one is who is, and not two is who me. Buddhas in this case, Shakyamuni Buddha and all other Buddhas in the ten directions are not one and yet not two because they can together, they together can fathom or penetrate or know this thing.

[20:28]

So they are the same and they are different, same and different. you know, how can I say? Minmei means each, men literally means face. So each time and each face, each person's being time. So he's talking about oneness and multiplicity, or one and many are really one. If I, I refer to, I in this sentence refer to Shakyamuni Buddha, but he is talking about each one of us, I, the self, are different from the other Buddhas in the ten directions. And here, in this case, other Buddhas in the ten directions means all beings in the ten directions and each one of us are different.

[21:42]

How could I enable the utterance of and other Buddhas in the ten directions to manifest. That means each one of us and all other beings are not different. We are all beings. And yet we are different. We are independent at the same time. So is he asking a question? No. It sounded like question? Then my mistake. This is a statement. So you're saying if I were different from the other Buddhists in ten directions? How I could? There's no way we can. Is it rhetorical?

[22:46]

Yes. So I should put a question mark. Okay. I don't know why he's saying, how could I enable the utterance of ? Is the and, is that part of the Japanese, or is that ? And? Yeah, how could I enable the utterance of ? Yeah, it's from the quote, I and other Buddhas. And in the Japanese, yeah, it's there. Yes? I'm sorry. How could I enable the utterance of? Anyway, this means how I can say in that way.

[23:57]

That means if Shakyamuni and other Buddhas are different, then Shakyamuni cannot say I and all other Buddhas in the ten directions know these things. Okay? So here Dogen is discussing about the relationship between each particular being or thing and all other beings. Everything is within the network of interdependent ordination. And everything is connected. And from one way of viewing this reality is we are the same because we are all connected.

[25:00]

Then we pick up one node of this net. We pick up entire network. So we are all one reality. And yet each and every being are different. From one point, you know, each and every being is, you know, only Buddha. Each is independent, only this person. I am, you know, I was born by myself. I have to live by myself. I have to breathe by myself. I have to eat. No one can eat for me. Someone can eat my food, but that food go to that person's stomach, not my stomach. And, you know, we are really independent and individual.

[26:06]

I cannot practice for you, and you cannot practice for me. When I'm facing our best, I have to die by myself. There's no sharing. We are completely alone, in a sense. That is only Buddha. Yuibutsu is that side. But from another side, we cannot live alone. We are always together with other beings. Without relationship with others, we cannot exist even a moment. You know, air is not me, but without air, I cannot live. Water is not me, but without water, I cannot stay alive. And without food, cooked by people working in the kitchen, I cannot, you know, talk.

[27:13]

And even the language... Now I'm speaking using English words. These English words I'm using is a gift from someone, from culture, from the teachers and the friends. And also, I mainly use Japanese language when I think this Japanese language is also a gift from the Japanese society. Even if I was born in Japan, I was moved right after I was born, then I couldn't, you know, speak Japanese. So Japanese language is also a gift. And Japanese language is, you know, the result of... innumerous people lived in those islands for millions of years. They, you know, working together with the nature and with people in the society.

[28:23]

So language is a product of all those people. And because I was born and educated in Japan, I received that heritage. So even the language or word or concept I use to produce very selfish, egocentric idea is also a gift. So even to be egocentric, I need a gift from others. So without relationship with others, we cannot really exist. That is another side of same reality. And I think Dogen used this expression, together with Buddha, to show that side of reality. We are completely alone. and independent. And from another side, we cannot be alone.

[29:30]

We need support, relation and support by all beings. These two sides of reality of interdependent origination, I think, is the true reality of all beings that Dogen wants to express and teach us. And that reality is very basic of our studying dharma and practicing dharma, living together with others. And yet I need to take responsibility to live as myself. Now I'm talking about Dogen's writings because this is my responsibility as a Buddhist priest. I don't like this responsibility. And I think this is too much to me, but no one else, you know, doesn't do at this moment.

[30:34]

So somehow, you know, as my bad karma, I have to do this. You know, this is really a bad karma, I think. You know, when I finished university and started to practice with my teacher, Uchiyama Roshi, he asked me to study English. Because at the time, in the early 70s, there are many Westerners came to Kyoto and practice at Antaiji. We had a five-day session each month. And we had about 50 to 60 people sitting together. And one half were the monks or resident practitioners of Antaiji, one third. Another one-third is Japanese lay practitioners outside. And another one-third are Westerners.

[31:35]

So from the very beginning, it's very natural for me to practice with Westerners. And Uchamuroshi didn't speak any Western languages. So even though he wanted to teach the meaning of Zazen, somehow he couldn't. So he needed translators. There were few Americans who could translate his Japanese to English, but he thought there are some Japanese who have follow experience of Zazen and explain and teach true meaning of Zazen in Western language. That is why he asked me if I wanted to study English, and I didn't want to. I mean, I studied, of course, I studied English as all Japanese student, like in three years in the middle school, three years in the high school, and two years in the college.

[32:49]

So all together, eight years. But when I finished my college education, I didn't speak any English at all. And I have no desire to do so. I was happy to finish, you know, studying. But when my teacher asked me, because of my weakness, I couldn't say no. I mean... That is a weakness. I mean, I wanted to be a good boy. That is a problem. That is a bad karma to me. I mean... Anyway, that, you know, very kind of, how can I say, unintentional, yes, determined the rest of my life.

[33:55]

And that's why I'm here now. It's really about karma. Well, there we are. So this, you know, reality, one reality in which kind of a very opposite or a contradicted truth are there, that is each and everything is completely independent and individual and different and unique. It cannot be alternate each other. I am I and I cannot be other people. I have my own unique form, nature, body, energy and function. And each one of you have the same different uniqueness. And we have to, only way we can live is using this person's unique karma.

[35:02]

Please. So this must have impressed Dogen very powerfully when the old man, the old Tenzo, he was drying the mushrooms and sweating. And Dogen said, oh, why don't you get somebody else to do it? And the old man said, you're a fool. Others are not me. others are not me. I think so. This is a very important point. That means I have to take responsibility about what we do, what I do, how we do, how we live. It's only my responsibility, 100% responsibility. But what the old ten was doing was drying mushroom.

[36:06]

And this drying mushroom will be offering to others, to the Buddha, to the practitioners. So that his practice for his own, only for his own, is offering to others so within this one very simple practice of drying mushroom in a very hot afternoon you know this reality are both included you know Tenzo should be just be Tenzo and no one he couldn't ask you know or any other people could this work for him And yet his work is influence and help and sustain other people's life or practice. So yuibutsu and yobutsu are both there in this one single action of drying a mushroom.

[37:11]

Thank you very much. And then I think they went on to discuss time. Why was he doing it at that time? Like, only now. Only this person. Here, now, and this self. That is a real reality. You know, we have to be here and now. And we have to be with this body and mind. That is the real reality of our life. We cannot be someone else. We cannot be somewhere else. We cannot be sometime else. We have to be really right now, right here with these five scandals. That is the only reality we can, you know, participate. And yes, you know, this is what Dogen is saying in the next two sentences.

[38:15]

That is, we need to be really right now, right here with this person. There's no possibility to be in a different time in the past or future. But often in our thinking, we are often somewhere, sometime else. We are thinking about past or we are thinking about future, what we want to be tomorrow. or i'm thinking about that past and and you know often i made such a mistake therefore i cannot you know be a good person so we are caught up in past or being you know followed by our desire for the future we are we often not really just be right now right here with these five scandals but No, right now, right here, being with this person, hundred percent, is actually the reality of all things.

[39:25]

That is only reality. And according to Kumarajiva's translation of Nagarjuna's Madhanika Kārika, this reality of all beings is nirvana. So to be really settled down at this moment, right now, and right here, and with this body and mind, this ten-suchness, is nirvana. But that is, I think, the most difficult thing, to settle down right there. And that is another expression of Dogen, of that reality is genjoukoa. Genjo means the reality of right now, right here, is a manifestation of universal reality or koan, absolute reality. It can only be manifested at this moment as genjo, right now, right here, as this way.

[40:28]

Why did you see where it happened? I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, so next sentence is, because the 10 directions do not exist at this particular place, the 10 directions are within this particular place. This is, of course, very, you know, paradox, and doesn't make any sense if we don't see these two sides or aspects of one reality. That means a chateau, this particular place is a translation of chateau, Chateau is used as an opposition of natto.

[41:51]

Chateau is this, and natto is that. This and that. This means this reality right now, right here. And natto is absolute or ultimate truth or reality or eternity or koan. Dogen often used the expression natto, shato and natto. And in this case, ten directions is natto. That means entirety of this network of interdependent origination. And Shato is each one of us, each being. So now I am right here. I am not other places. And I can be only right now, this moment.

[43:02]

And I can be only me or Shohaku. So we are particular being. I am particular being, and I'm standing this particular place, and I'm talking this particular moment. I cannot be somewhere else or sometime else or someone else. This is me and nothing else. So that is what, you know, shato, in this sentence, the ten directions, natto, do not exist at this particular place. I'm only me. This moment is only this moment. This place is only this place. We cannot be, you know, somewhere else. Only this moment, this place, right here, I'm this being. That is, the ten directions do not exist at this particular place.

[44:10]

And next, he said, the ten directions are within this particular place. Of course, these two are very contradicted. But this, and Dogen used the word because. Because these 10 directions do not exist up here. Because 10 direction is right here. As a simple logic, this doesn't mean anything. This is just a contradiction, nonsense. But if we really see the reality of this interconnection, You know, of course, this one particular being and a particular place and a particular time is not, is different from other places, other time, other beings.

[45:20]

And yet, because we are connected with all beings, you know, when we pick up one thing, we pick up this entire ten directions. This is like, you know, this is like this thing. This thing is, you know, five fingers. And this can be one hand. And then we have this, what we call this finger, middle finger. Each finger are different, separate, independent, different shape, and different way of moving. So each independent. This cannot be a thumb, and this cannot be a middle finger, and this cannot be a thumb.

[46:26]

Each has different shape, different name, different function. But somehow these five fingers work as completely one thing. From one side, this is really one thing, one hand. And from another side, this is five independent things. Is this five fingers or one hand? This is a koan. You know, when I was young, this is a kind of joke. When I read about Hakuin's koan of the sound of one hand, I thought it was easy. Hakuin said, two hands can make sound, but one hand cannot make sound. How do you hear the sound of one hand? But I thought it's easy. This is the sound of one hand. Right? I don't use another hand.

[47:27]

This is the sound of one hand. So we need to understand that one hand cannot make sound, but five fingers can make many different sounds. So to see this reality as one hand and to see this reality as five fingers is the same as the painting. seeing this old lady and the young lady of this painting. This is really one thing, but there are two, two different, almost opposite things. And what Dogen is discussing is the relationship between each one of the fingers, each one of the five fingers and one hand. This is completely the same. But when we see this as five fingers, each are completely different. And some cannot be one hand.

[48:29]

And each finger cannot be one hand. But five fingers is one hand. And when I pick up one finger, somehow I pick up one hand. So beside this one finger, there's no one hand. But this one hand is not, I mean, this one finger cannot be one hand without being together with other four fingers. Does it make sense? That is what I think he's saying. Within one finger, there's no one hand. But because there's no one hand is not here in this particular place, then we pick up this one finger.

[49:39]

somehow one hand completely come to us, come to me. That is, so this is two very complete, I mean, opposite things is both there at the same time. And this is same as Ferdogen said, using the abstract and not abstract. Then obstruct, you know, five hands, five fingers are really one hand. And then it does not obstruct, each finger are completely different, independent. But somehow, you know, this individuality and oneness working together. That is very simple reality, but very difficult to explain in a logical way using concept.

[50:44]

Yes? Could you say, because the ten directions do not exist somewhere else, the ten directions are here, the same thing? Yes. Does it make sense? And next he expressed this reality using more poetic expressions. So, you know, five fingers is all beings, and one hand is true reality. Next sentence he said, for this reason, the true reality meeting with all beings. How one hand meet with five fingers.

[51:48]

The true reality meeting with all beings means that spring enter flowers. A person meeting with spring. you know, spring and flowers, not only flowers, but in the spring, you know, many different kinds of birds start to, you know, sing, and all different kinds of grasses start to grow again. And especially for us Japanese, you know, spring and flowers are associated with the cherry blossom. When cherry blossom, in the area I grown up, cherry blossom blooms in the early April. And that is the time, you know, new semester of school started. So we started something new. So spring and cherry blossom and something new, our new phase of life is very closely connected in our mind.

[52:59]

So in the spring, new life comes out. So not only just flower or cherry blossom, all things start new, fresh. But spring is one thing. And all those things happening in spring, our scenario of spring, you know, You know, this is the way spring and flowers and grasses and all things happening in the spring meet. Actually, these are exactly same thing. But spring or flower by itself cannot be spring. And... You know, each and every thing is happening in the spring.

[54:02]

All together, as a network of those things, we say, this is spring. And human beings are the same. We are part of the spring. In the spring, we feel fresh, very refreshed, and try to start something new. That is how one hand enter or meet with five fingers. Please. I had a question about the association that we have in our mind to the symbol and the parts of it. Like spring for me personally is a time that my dog died. So it isn't. It is spring. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, of course, each person has a good memory, positive memory about the spring and also sad or negative memories.

[55:35]

And those are also, you know, like the five fingers. Each have different memories or associations, but all together that is spring. So spring is not simply or completely positive, or fresh, or beautiful, but there are some negative part might be. Spring has another association with me in me in myself, as you know, how can I say it's like spring and youth. To be young has some association in Japanese language or culture. And to be young is good flow of energy. And it's also very difficult time to live.

[56:39]

So there are all different kind of things happening in the spring. But altogether, we call it spring. So spring is something beyond our evaluation. Everything is included within this spring. Both young lady and older old lady are there. But this is one spring. Does it make sense? It does. And in the same vein, part of my difficulty how to hold the two truths in this way with the hand analogy. That means for an individual, for some people, their hand doesn't have five fingers. What had five fingers now doesn't, but this is their hand. To another person, when they see a hand without five fingers, that other person would say, that's not a hand. So it makes it difficult when there are different ideas between each other about what is a hand.

[57:47]

Yeah, it's really difficult, you know. The world in which I'm living, In this world I'm living, I am the center of the world. And I see everything from my point of view. Because I'm Japanese, the way I view things is Japanese view. And because I'm a... Man, the way I view things is my point of view. And because I'm a Buddhist, I see things from Buddhist point of view, and it might be really different from other people's view. from different culture or nation or spiritual tradition.

[58:53]

So it's really difficult to communicate the world in which I am the center and the world in which you are the center and the world in which other person is the center. We cannot tell if these are the same world or not. That is another meaning, I think, that we are completely independent individuals. Not only me, but this world. For example, in this hall, we have 20, 30 people, and we are gathering together to study Dogen's teachings. And I am a speaker, unfortunately, I try to speak, and you are listening. I really appreciate your patience. But so in this world, you know, I am a speaker, you are listeners, and you are all part of my world.

[59:56]

And I have my own karma from the past. That is what, you know, I'm talking about. And each one of you have different karma from the past and different ideas and views and way of thinking. So, and yet, you know, it seems that we are living together in one world, but we are not sure if really we are living together within one world. My world in which I view from my point of view And the world in which you are the center and seeing things from your point of view might be really different. And there's no way to compare and to examine if these are same or different.

[61:00]

So in that sense, we are really yuibutsu. not only this person separate from other beings, but this person and my world are one thing. And this person and my world and your world might be very different. But we think we can communicate and we think we can understand using words and concept. So, words and concepts, those things can be, of course, can be a tool of connection, but also a tool of separation. So, this is a really strange world, strange reality. That's why, you know, it is called Myoho. Myoho means wondrous dharma.

[62:03]

This is wondrous, wondrous, wondrous dharma or myouhou. It means we cannot really, really grasp or understand this reality. It's so... It has so many dimensions and so complicated. And what Dogen is writing and trying to show us is one way of viewing this strange reality. We are the wondrous reality. And because when I did this, I feel something important. In my life, his writing is important to me. But for some people, this doesn't make any sense at all. I think that is true. Please.

[63:05]

So for this reason, the true reality, meeting with all beings, means that spring entering flowers, a person entering with spring. So in that sentence, spring, is Jiso, flowers is Shoho. A person is Shoho, spring is Jiso. Then the moon illuminating the moon, the moon is Shoho, the moon is Jiso, a person meeting the person, a person is Shoho, a person is Jiso. Yeah, in this second sentence, the moon eliminates the moon itself, and the person meeting the person, him or herself, shows the oneness of all beings. When we see all beings, we see ourselves. When moon illuminates this world, moon is illuminating the moon itself.

[64:15]

So moon and this world, or me and being in this world, are one thing. When I see all beings, I see myself. That is what Dogen wrote in Uji. In this world, all beings, we make arrangement, you know, place everything as they are, as a part of myself. So me and all beings are really one thing. From one side. From another side, we are completely separate, completely independent. But from another side, we are completely one. When we see you, I see myself. When I see the mountain, I see myself. There's nothing other than me beside that mountain.

[65:20]

So these are really completely opposite and contradicted, and yet, how can I say, being there as it is, including both side. Please. Shouhou. Yeah, first part, first half of Shoho Jisoo. Please. In the example of the net, what is the end? How is it that when someone dies, then that individual is gone, and there's not a hole that open a finger is gone, but one is? Yeah, of course, within this network, things are coming and going, arising, staying for a while, and perishing. You know, when my teacher died, I felt my world completely changed.

[66:30]

I mean, even though I lived and practiced together with my teacher only about four years at Antaichi. After that, you know, I came to this country, so I never lived together and practiced together with him. But somehow, until he died, I feel like I am part of his world, and he is part of my world. But when he passed away, I felt one word disappeared. And so I have to live and practice in the world without my teacher. It was very kind of difficult for me to accept, even though I didn't really meet him, but still he was there. Now, after he died, somehow his world, in which I am part of it, disappeared.

[67:34]

And so my teacher is only within myself or within my world. It's a sense of very sad and pain. But for him, this is what Uchanoroshi always said, when he was born, he was born with entire world. And when he died, he died with entire world, his entire world. So when I was born, I was born with my entire world, and my teacher was part of my world. And when I die, I die together with the entire world of mine. So this is also a strange thing, I think, strange thing to say. You know, when we are born, we are born together with the entire world, and we die with the world in which I am the center.

[68:47]

completely perished, disappeared. But in thinking, in our thinking, using words and concept and knowledge, I'm pretty sure even before I was born, this word exists because of my knowledge from studying history. And because even my teacher died, this world still continues. So I'm pretty sure even after my death, this world continues. But that is not reality. That is knowledge. That is my understanding or my belief that this world continues even after my death. There's no way to really make sure this world existed before I was born and this world will continue after my death.

[69:51]

Really, there's completely no way to make sure. You know, that is true reality of our life. but as a kind of a thinking or concept we know, you know, time flows like a stream. And I was born in this world in my case, 1948. And I live so far for 58 years. And maybe, I don't know how long, but I live for maybe 10 or 20 years more and I disappear from this world that is our common understanding we share using the concept and knowledge but there's no possibility that this is really true as my own personal actual experience because I'm not there before I was born, and I will not be there after my death.

[71:02]

So this is only place, only time, only possible way I can see from using these five skandhas. At least Uche Moroshi, my teacher, said that is reality of our life. So we should kind of, in a sense, make very clear distinction between the world we create using our thinking, using thinking and concept and knowledge and studying, and also the world we really experience with this body and mind. Does it make sense? So you're saying that when you die, your world will die, but this world will continue. Probably. We don't know.

[72:03]

I believe so. But there's no possible way to check it. It's really true for us. As my life. Please. Yeah. That is one, this is one interpretation of that idea. When Buddha was born, he said, I am alone. What is the word? Right. Please. I'm sorry, this is such a... Superficial. I explained to myself the idea, when I see the mountain, I see myself, along the lines of myself being an expression of the subjective reactions I may have to a mountain.

[73:35]

I like to ski. I like to hike. But I think when you said it a little while ago, it meant something more complete or... not superficial well when I used the word mountain this came from the poems I introduced often the poem about Mount Roo by Suu Kyi do you know the poem Sushi was a very great poet of Song Dynasty China. He wrote a poem about Mount Lu. And he said, when he saw the Mount Lu from one point, it looks like a single peak.

[74:39]

And when he saw the same mountain, it's like a part of the range. So here, you know, independence and interconnection are both expressed. And he said each time he's walking in the mountains, each time the shape of the mountain changes. So I cannot see the true face of Mount Roo. because I am in the middle of the mountains. That is what Suu Kyi wrote in his poem. And Wang Shi, Wang Shi is a Chinese Soto Zen master. He wrote his own, composed his own poem following Suu Kyi's poem of Mount Roo. And he said, coming and going within mountain, what he said mountain is my body so that means to see the true face of man true or not is not important because anyway it cannot see him

[76:00]

So in this case, Mount Roo is this network of interdependent originations in which we are coming and going, walking. Each time we move around within this network, this entire network looks very different. But what she said is this entire mountain is his body, and his body is his self. So there's no, not necessary to see, and there's no way to see as object. So there's no, how can I say, way to see the sense organ and the object as a mountain as object. This person walking in the mountain, and the mountain is one thing. That is Fat Banshi Road and Dogen Zenji. composed another poem following Sushi and Wanshi's poem on Mount Ryo.

[77:11]

Dogen said, coming and going in the mountain, he said, the person who is coming and going in the mountain should be the person who loves the mountain. And the mountain is his body. And one thing different from Wanshi is his body is not his self. That means there's no such things called self. Only the person walking, moving around in this mountain. So mountain and this person walking, living, being born, living and dying within mountain are really one thing. That is what I meant when I say I see mountain, I see myself.

[78:14]

Or often moon illuminates the world, this world is moon itself. Is this deep enough? Still superficial. Please. These three lines, the last three lines, about spring entering flowers, that person is springing. Mm-hmm. or a person sees water, these are equally pointing to the principle of seeing each other. I think Dogen uses a lot of beautiful imagery from nature. I think that's me. But the last part, these are equally pointing to the principle of seeing each other, is he, it seems to me that maybe he's being poetic, or he, I'm not sure if he's just being poetic, or when he talks about spring and flowers, he's maybe not just talking about spring and flowers, he's using them in a word, but at the same time, he is also talking about spring and flowers, and about a person seeing water, you know,

[79:32]

I think this expression, a person seeing the water, came from the Goan story of Tozan. Do you know that story? Yeah. Yeah, when he was walking in the water, he saw the reflection of himself. That is what person see the water. When person see the water, the person see himself, reflection of himself. And Tozan said in his poem, he said, I am him, but he is not me. This is the same idea. I was going to ask you about that. Why does he say, I am him, I am it, it is not me?

[80:36]

Why that way? Why say it that way? Why say, it is not me? Isn't Jiso, it is me? the word he used, I mean, Tozan used is kare. Kare and ware. Ware is first person, and Kare is third person. So he or it or her. And this refers to the reflection of himself on the water. And I think first he said... Kari, the reflection is not me, and yet me is reflections.

[81:53]

I think these two are simply expressing two sides of this reality. Me and what we see are one, and me and what we see are completely different. I don't think the order is not so important. Maybe. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, reflection of our face is it. I don't know.

[82:56]

Maybe this is time. Good place to stop. And I'll continue this afternoon.

[83:10]

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