Satsang with Mooji Good morning, everyone.

[01:09]

I'm really happy to be here again to share Dogen Zenji's teaching and practice with people in this Sangha. I came here for giving lecture during the 7-day Genzō-e Sesshin, and this time we are going to study Shōbō Genzō Kesakudoku. in English, virtue of kesha or kashaya. That means this is called kesha, or in Japan we call this okesha. So this morning, I'd like to talk on the verse of kesha.

[02:11]

Actually, in Japanese, this morning. Anyway, it seems many people here are wearing . So I'm pretty sure you are familiar with this verse, or how do you call it? The verse in Japanese is . And English translation you use here is, I think, something like great robe of revelation. filled far beyond form and emptiness, wearing Buddha's teaching, saving all beings.

[03:20]

I'd like to introduce one anecdote from this book, To Shine One Corner of the World. This is a collection of anecdote between Suzuki Roshi and his students. One of them, I think, is contributed by Soju Meru Weizman. This is about the verse of Kesa. If you have this book, page 54, it said, A brief verse that has always been recited. At the Zen Center goes like this, great robe of liberation, filled far beyond form and emptiness, wearing Buddha's teaching, serving all beings.

[04:29]

In the early 60s, So this is almost 40 years ago. In the early 60s, this was chanted only in Japanese. Here now you chant in Japanese and English together, but at that time they chanted only in Japanese. So no one knew what it meant. One day, a student went to Suzuki Roshi and asked, what's the meaning of that chant we do right after the Zen? Suzuki said, I don't know. Katagiri Sensei, Katagiri Roshi was still here to assist Suzuki Roshi.

[05:36]

Katagiri Sensei, his assistant teacher, started going through the doors looking for a translation. Suzuki gestured to him to stop. So they gave up to find a translation. And then he, Suzuki Roshi, turned to the student, pointed to his heart, and said, it's love, L-O-V-E. So according to this story, this chant we do every morning is about love. In 1999, so six years ago already, we had Dogen Zenji Symposium at Stanford University as a commemoration of 800th anniversary of Dogen Zenji's birth.

[06:50]

At that Dogen Zenji Symposium, Mel Weitzman was one of the presenters, and I was also. And I think during the panel discussion, question and answer between audience and people who made presentation, and during that, period, Solzhenitsyn mentioned about this story. And right after that session was over, Karl Bielefeld, a professor at Stanford University, he is a Dogen scholar, spoke to me in a very low voice. He said, how Japanese people pronounce robe.

[08:02]

Do you know what it means? I mean, Karl Dilferid thought, you know, when Suki Roshi pointed to his heart and said, love, I think he was wearing rakusu and pointed rakusu and said, robe. LAUGHTER You know, in Japanese, we don't have distinction between R sound and L sound, and B sound and V sound. So for us, it's really difficult to pronounce precisely L-O-V-E and R-O-B-E. For us Japanese, there's no such thing, you know, love and love. Even I cannot, you know, pronounce correctly.

[09:12]

So Carl Wilfert's guess was, you know, Suzuki said love. He said love. But I really like this story. And But, you know, Melvetma said it's right, you know, this verse is about love, love toward Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, and all living beings, and to ourselves. To me, this story is a kind of koan. From today, I'm going to talk on Dogen's teachings three hours a day for seven days. using my poor English. So same kind of things may often happen.

[10:18]

And I think it might be very interesting, you know, many people take a note and they, you know, compare all of the, collect all of the notes and compare. There might be many different things. I think it's really interesting. So I think it's really difficult to communicate really correctly, precisely and exactly to transmit spiritual teaching or culture from one society. and culture to the another. There might be many misunderstandings and something is twisted or changed or something is lost or something is added.

[11:23]

Because I have been working on translation, when we make some translation, of course I feel happy, but at the same time I feel sad, you know, because I know there's something changing or missing or added. So it's really difficult to translate what Dogen really said. And even I'm not sure whether I really understand what Dogen even though I'm a Japanese. You know, there's a 800 years gap between me and Dogen Zenji. but somehow this dharma has been transmitted from India to China and China to Japan in our case, I mean in the case of Soto Zen tradition.

[12:29]

Of course, there are many other traditions spread all over Asian countries. somehow you know going through such difficulties and danger or risk to you know make some twist or change still this dharma has been transmitted and now from japan to this country you know this term has been you know transmitted and being studied and practiced so i think we need to be careful and also uh how can i say we should be ready to make such a mistake or misunderstanding. And yet, I'm not sure if this is really misunderstanding or not.

[13:34]

Suzuki Roshi might really say love instead of love. We don't know because it's already done 40 years ago. But it might be a misunderstanding. But still, Mel Weitzman's so-called misunderstanding, something is transmitted from Suzuki Roshi to him. I think that kind of transmission is really important. So our practice and our study is kind of continuous mistakes or continuous misunderstanding, but fortunately we have practiced. we do using our body, not only our mind.

[14:38]

So somehow, not only through languages or words, the practice or the dharma can be transmitted through practice, through living and doing things together, both teacher and the student do same thing. And within these activities, the Dharma has been transmitted. And of course, the teachings using language, of course, is important. But we have to understand there might be some change or misunderstanding. Anyway, the translation of this verse we use.

[15:40]

At my temple, the English translation we use is almost same, but a little bit different. This came from Minnesota's meditation center, so Katagiroshi used, I think, used the almost same translation, but A few words are different. I think that is, we chant, great robe of liberation, virtuous field far beyond form and emptiness, wearing Tathagata's teaching instead of Buddha's teaching. We vow to save all beings. So few words are different, but basically the same. But this translation, I mean, when I went to Minneapolis and heard this translation, I was kind of surprised, different from my understanding.

[16:46]

I mean, as a philosophy or theory, it's okay. It's not a mistake. But as a translation, it's a kind of a liberal translation. So in the beginning, I'm trying to criticize and try to say this is not a good translation. But I stopped to, you know, speak in that way. I think as a meaning this is okay. But my understanding is a little bit different. Basically the same, of course. So this morning I'd like to talk about my understanding of this verse. The most literal translation, of course, literal translation is not necessarily good translation. especially the poems or verse which is chanted.

[17:56]

The meaning is not only important thing, but chantability, the beauty of sound is also important. So I tried not to change. So we still chant the same English translation. But I'd like to talk my understanding of this verse. My very literal translation of this verse is, how great, how great the law of revelation is. So this is an exclamation, how great. The robe of liberation is. The robe of liberation is Gedat's fuku. Fuku is robe. And Gedat is revelation. And second line is muso fukuden e. My translation is, it is the robe without form.

[19:10]

form f-o-r-m without form and the field of happiness so this happiness or virtuous is missing and well let me finish my translation and respectfully unfold and wear tatagata's teaching widely save all living beings. maybe widely saving all living beings. That is my translation. So in the original, there is no far beyond form and emptiness. There is no such word, emptiness. That is the point of my question. I don't know whose translation is this, but why the translator put this word, emptiness,

[20:17]

because it's not there. Actually, these three, the robe of revelation, and muso, and fukuden, are three names of Kesa. So, not Dogen Zenji, but the person who made this Chinese verse picked up three of, there are many more names of this robe, but he, the person, picked up three names of this robe, that is the robe of liberation and the robe of muso, formlessness, formlessness. and robe of Fukuden. Den literally means rice paddy, the rice field.

[21:22]

So these are simply three names of this robe. And if I interpret these three names within the Buddhist or Dogen Zenjutsu teachings, I think these three are really meaningful. These two, form and form. love without form and love that is the rice paddy or rice field of happiness, kind of opposition. Do you know what it means? Before that, I should say the English translation we use, the form, field far beyond form and emptiness, is as a translation, it's a mistake.

[22:37]

Because form and emptiness came from the Heart Sutra. Form is emptiness and emptiness is form. In this case, this form is rupa. Rupa means material things. And the Chinese word for rupa is shiki, not soul. Musou means no soul. So the word is different. In this verse, it doesn't say rupa, no rupa, but it said no form. And this is a confusion of English translation. Rupa is translated as form, of course, but this form is different form. So, not shikki. And this soul form appeared in the very famous Mahayana sutra named Diamond Sutra.

[23:46]

I think many of you know Diamond Sutra. And in Diamond Sutra, basically the sutra is saying is we should see the formlessness of all forms. The very well-known phrase is, to see all forms as no form is to see tathagata. So this is about the teaching of emptiness. So basically it's not mistaken. But the Diamond Sutra says we should see each of these things as form. This has a form as a pen. This is a form as a pair of reading glass.

[24:50]

And this is a form of Shohaku, Five Scandals, these forms are actually, or as ultimate reality, no form. We should see in that way. Then we see, if we see the formlessness of each and every form, is the way we see Tathagat. And in this case, tathāgata does not refer to a person, enlightened person, but tathāgata means the reality itself, the truth or reality of all beings. So what the Diamond Sutra says is to see all forms as no form is to see the reality of all beings. So forms are negated because we always cling to the forms.

[26:00]

and attach ourselves to forms. And we, you know, because of our three poisonous minds, when we encounter some form we like, we want to make this mine. And when we encounter something we don't want, then we try to stay away, but somehow they come. So we get angry, or we hate this. That is greed and anger or hatred. This great greed and anger or hatred came from basic ignorance of formlessness. So in order to become free from greed and anger or hatred, we should see the reality of all beings that has no form. So we don't need to, and also we cannot cling to, grasp and make our position.

[27:08]

That is how we see the Tathagata. and we can be liberated from our self-attachment and attachment to other things. That is the basic teaching of emptiness, and that is what the Diamond Sutra teaches. This is very common understanding, common teaching within almost all Mahayana Buddhism. But Dogen Zenji, Dogen Zenji is really a unique person. He made his own comments in Shobo Genzo Kenbutsu. Kenbutsu means seeing Buddha. on this phrase from the Diamond Sutra. And he, Togen Zenji, was against that kind of common understanding.

[28:15]

He said, and as usual, he interpreted the very same phrase or sentence in a very different way. He said, this sentence should not read in that way. That way means we should see all forms as no forms. That is seeing the tathagata. But Dogen Zenji read this sentence, he, without making any change of the sentence, he read to see form and to see no form. is to see Tadagata. In this interpretation, seeing things as form is not negated. Seeing form as form and seeing no form

[29:21]

So see, you know, one reality or one each and everything from two sides. One as a form, another as no form. To see from two perspectives. is to see tathagata. So in the case of Dogen Zen's interpretation, the form is not negated. But we should see form exactly as it is. And we should see that form is no form. These two. Because all forms are no form, we cannot cling to as a common Mahayana prajna teaching teachers. But that is not the end of the story when we study Dogen.

[30:31]

We should return to the form. and see the form as, in a sense, an expression of formlessness, or no form. That's why we need to take care of the forms. This body is just a collection of five skandhas. There's no such thing as called shohaku. This is just a collection of causes and conditions. I'm here as shōhaku, or these five scandals are here as shōhaku at this moment, but next moment it may disappear. So there's no such thing, form, called shōhaku. This is just a collection of things or elements. So we cannot grasp and cling to this form. So we should be free from the attachment to the form.

[31:36]

And yet, from another side, these five skandhas exist and live as shohak, at least this moment. So even though we cannot attach ourselves to these five skandhas, still we have to take responsibility to take care of these five skandhas as shohak. That is another side of the teaching. And by really taking care of this form, As the rice party, when we plant seedlings of rice, you know, the rice plants grow and bloom flower, and they are green.

[32:43]

And we can enjoy the fruits. That is what this field of happiness means. If we work on it, to take care of the rice paddy, to grow rice, it's really a lot of work. These days, farmers do almost all work by machine, so it's not so hard. But in ancient times, from the early spring until the fall, farmers had to work. there's a very well-known expression, farmers start to work seeing the stars in the sky, that means before sunrise, and they go back home seeing the evening stars.

[33:46]

So they had to work really all day. But by working and taking care of the rice paddy and plants, we can receive the happiness of rice for next year. That is our practice. So this love is formless. no form. And yet by taking care of and take responsibility, you know, in taking care of this body and mind and this love, that is a form. You know, as rice paddy produce a lot of crops,

[34:49]

we can receive happiness. That is the meaning of, I think, those three names. And this is the way we can live in a liberated way. So the law of liberation has two sides. One side is no form. Another side is... form of rice paddy actually in the history. when Shakyamuni Buddha was alive, someone requested Buddha to make 13 robes. People could see Buddhist monk as Buddhist monks. So Buddha, when he was taking a walk, in the field. They saw the rice paddies or rice field, and Buddha asked Ananda to make a robe that looks like the rice paddy, that is a ground of happiness.

[36:05]

So fukuden or field of happiness is a form. So this is a form of fukuden. The design or pattern of this robe is a pattern of rice paddies. So fukuden is a form. And another name of this robe is no-form. So form and no-form. We are wearing this robe, we are really wearing the teaching of no-form and teaching of form. And we are liberated from either side. I think that is my understanding of these three names of the slope. And that is what this verse is saying. So the third line says, hibu-nyorai-kyo, I translated, respectfully unfold and wear Tathagata's teachings.

[37:18]

The first word, hi, is of course meaning to wear. But the first primary meaning of this word, hi, means to open or unfold. You know, when we chant the robe chant, we put rakusu or okusa on our head. This is an expression of our respect. You know, head is the most, I don't know the word, not valuable, but important part of our body. And to put something on our head means this is more important. than our head. And at this moment, the robe is still folded. And when we finish chanting, we unfold the robe and put on.

[38:27]

That is for this one single word, hi, means open. Unfold and put on. So to me, it's more kind of active, active kind of practice, not simply just wearing. We unfold means to show the teaching, of course, to ourselves and to other people. So here there's some action from ourselves. So unfold and wear. One word has two meanings, so it's very difficult to translate in a poetic way. If we use two verbs, it's not poetic. It's too wordy. So we have to make a choice.

[39:31]

So it's really difficult to translate verse or poems. And our final line is, ko do shoshujyo ko is widely means without making choice fear the places but wherever we are we try to save all living beings of course this is the first vow from the four bodhisattva vows Mahayana Buddhist practitioners are called bodhisattvas, and one of the definitions of a bodhisattva is a person who lives being led by vow instead of being pulled by our karma.

[40:38]

That's the difference between bodhisattva and not bodhisattva. To be a bodhisattva means to live, being led by our vow. And the basic vow are those four vows. Beings are numberless, we vow to save them. And that's the second. Delusions are inexhaustible. We vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. We vow to enter them or master them. And Buddha's way is unsurpassable. We vow to realize it. Those are the vows all bodhisattvas should take. As I often said, within these four vowels, between the first part of each vowel and the second part of each vowel has contradiction.

[41:45]

If beings are numberless and we vow to save them, in this case, save them means save them all. without any exception. So, taking this vow means, you know, living beings are numberless, we vow to save them, means this, I don't like the word, save. That's why another translation is free. But this original word for save is do. Do means to cross over or ferry. That means we are living within sansara, in which we are transmigrating within six realms. And sansara is called this shore. And nirvana is called the other shore. And there is a river between samsara and nirvana.

[42:50]

And do means to cross over this river and become free from samsara and enter nirvana. that this door or crossover or ferry means. And our Bodhisattva vow is we help other beings to cross the river first and we will be the last person. I will be the last person to cross the river. We, you know, help all beings cross the river and enter nirvana first. We will be the last. That is the meaning of this vow. And to me this is a very strange thing. If all beings are bodhisattvas, and if all bodhisattvas have this vow, all of us are last persons.

[43:55]

That means no one is there. It's a really strange vow to me. But I think this strange contradiction is really important. That means we don't need to go to there, go there. That means if all of us take the same vow, this shore becomes other shore. That means samsara itself becomes nirvana. If all living beings take the same vow and live in the same attitude that, you know, try to give good things and help others, each other, then this showa becomes nirvana. So I think bodhisattva means people who are working within this showa not trying to go to the other shore and create or make this shore into nirvana.

[45:05]

So this Mahayana teaching is how we can create or find nirvana within samsara. How can experience or create, form nirvana within samsara. That is how we work to fulfill our bodhisattva vows. And in order to fulfill our vows, each one of us needs to take a particular vow depending upon our capability or our, I don't want to say like and dislike, But some people like good at certain things and other people good at other things. In this country with American people and study Dogen Zen and Buddha's teaching together with American people.

[46:13]

That is my personal vow in order to fulfill the common or general vows. So each one of us needs to take a vow and certain work. And each one of us' work needs to be the forms of no form. And that is what this robe or okesa or laksa express. And we are wearing that teaching. We are wearing that truth or reality that this is form. And yet, at the same time, this is no form. So we cannot or we don't need to cling to

[47:16]

and yet we need to take responsibility to take care of it. That is kind of a middle way between these two ways of viewing things as a reality. And every morning when we chant this verse, we make sure that our practice is the practice of this, you know, how can I say, viewing the reality as form and as no form. That is how we see the Tathagata. Well, any question? Please. Does the word happiness occur literally by itself in the Japanese, or is that something applied by the feel, the rice paddy?

[48:24]

Well, the original word is fuku. According to this dictionary, this Chinese and Japanese word fuku is happiness, blessing, fortune, something that brings something positive. So it doesn't need to be happiness in a material sense. Okay, please. Is in the term, in the one line where it says characters, it doesn't mean emptiness, but formlessness or no more. Right. Are there the same characters in the other Japanese phrase called ? No. Two different characters. No. Munen is no thought. Ne is thought in this case. And muso, this so, is perception.

[49:27]

So no mind, no thought, no perception is munen muso. So different, same, I'm sorry. We have so many words which have same sound but different meaning. Why is it so important to understand formlessness in order to be compassionate and skillful in the world? I think because we have a tendency to cling to certain form even when we try to be compassionate. That means we are conditioned I was born in Japan and educated within Japanese culture, and I became a Buddhist priest.

[50:31]

So my way of helping others has certain form. But my idea or understanding of certain form to help others might be different from American. So even when we try to not to cling, not attach ourselves to our own culture, understanding, even Buddhadharma, our understanding of Buddhadharma is different from Buddhadharma itself. It's really important to understand this point. Otherwise, we start to argue and even fight because of our understanding of dharma. So dharma is formless, but our understanding and our practice based on our understanding might be different.

[51:36]

but we cling to my understanding, my practice, my forms. You know, there are so many different forms in Zen monastic practice. It's really kind of funny. Even such a small thing, somehow we cling to that form we learned first. because I was trained at certain temple, I have some attachment to the form I was taught when I was young. And my practice after leaving that temple was to become free from that attachment to the form. And yet, this doesn't mean... we don't need to practice without form.

[52:40]

Because we have body, in order to practice using our body, we have to take certain form. But we should understand form is just a form. It's important, and we should do it, practice it wholeheartedly at this moment. But still, if we cling to certain particular form, that is... attachment I think so in that sense it's really helpful for me to be free from Japanese forms after you know I practice in this country it's kind of painful thing but it's kind of a process of being liberated from our own clinging not only the practice form but also our idea about peace or love or, you know, harmony is the same, you know.

[53:55]

Japanese idea about peace and American idea about peace or other people's idea about peace are different. And because of this difference, we start to fight. So, well, talk is endless, so I stop. Thank you very much.

[54:22]

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