I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good evening. Good evening. Tonight I want to talk about work practice and my new practice of being work leader, which is a position I assumed in mid-November, so it's still a very new position for me. And Christina asked me if I would give a sort of way-seeking mind talk, which means a talk about how I came to arrive at this particular spot, this particular position. So I won't go back to the very beginning. I'll talk about the time I spent at Zen Center

[01:00]

and how one thing led to another and put me right here, right now. So I came to Zen Center in 1982, and I became a resident by moving to Tassajara in the summer of 1984. And I did seven practice periods at Tassajara before returning to San Francisco to live at City Center and at various places in the neighborhood. So for eight years during my time at Tassajara and City Center, I was part of the job rotation program that we're mostly part of. I held various positions and changed positions every year. And while I was at Tassajara,

[02:02]

I had a friend who was a graphic designer, and I admired his work a lot and thought that when he told me about his work, it sounded like a lot of fun. So I decided that I would try to reinvent myself as a graphic designer, and I studied at UC Extension, which at that time was right around the corner down the street from Zen Center, and got a certificate in graphic design. And just as I was completing my studies there, a man named Peter Bailey, who had done Zen Center's graphic design work for many, many years, died. And before he died, one time he was involved in producing a wind bell and got halfway through it and fell ill and couldn't finish it,

[03:07]

and I was asked to finish it to get it ready for print. So I did that, and that was the beginning, I suppose, of my doing graphic design work for Zen Center. And then when he died, I asked for his job, and the officers deliberated as they do and told me that I could try the job for a year, that I could have it on a trial basis for a year. And I ended up doing graphic design for Zen Center for 12 years, ending in 2004. And I enjoyed the work a lot, but Zen Center was growing and thriving and the amount of work was increasing, and also I was very focused on it.

[04:10]

It really became my priority. And in the heat of trying to meet deadlines and whatever, I stopped coming to the Zen Do. And really my formal practice at Zen Center pretty much fell apart. For about 10 years. And you might wonder how that could happen. It seems to me that it happened to several people of my generation who I'm happy to say are now all regularly practicing and sitting at Zen Center, and some of them are ordained. So that's encouraging news, I think. So in the year 1999, I guess,

[05:11]

I was elected to the Board of Directors, and the board one weekend every year has a retreat somewhere where they go to talk about the deeper issues underlying board work and bond and socialize and practice. And in the year 2000, that retreat was at Tassajara, and I was very happy about that because I had not been back to Tassajara very much at all since I left in 1988, and I was very much looking forward to going. When the time actually rolled around, I was less enthusiastic because it was November and winter. And when I lived at Tassajara in the 80s, the buildings were almost all unheated, and I had a pretty tough time with this.

[06:14]

I like being warm and cozy, and it wasn't that way very much. And so I thought, do I really want to go in November? But I was committed, and I went. And as luck would have it, it turned out to be a gorgeous Indian summer weekend in November with temperatures in the mid-70s, and the leaves had turned. It was just beautiful. And the new dining room, which is now heated with hot springs water, has heat 24-7, so you could go in and get warm anytime. So did some of the other buildings, and I just had a really nice experience that weekend at Tassajara. And it called to me as it does, and I remember telling people in the car on the way home

[07:15]

that I was thinking about doing the January practice period. And that was Linda Ruth Cutt's first practice period as Abbott, her first practice period at Tassajara, and I had practiced with her and enjoyed her teaching before. So that's what I did. I extricated myself from my graphic design job and left things in the hands of a very good assistant and went off for three months to Tassajara. And it was a rejuvenating experience, I would say, that it brought my practice back to life. I went cold turkey. I kept intending to start sitting before I left, but it didn't happen. So there I was at Tassajara with a lot of sitting to do, and I hadn't been doing that for a very long time.

[08:17]

But I had a very nice time, and I intended to go the following year. It didn't work out, and so I was back in the city sitting more but doing my same old job. And then around Christmastime in 2003, Michael Wenger was looking forward to leading the spring practice period, and he invited me to be shuso, and I happily accepted. And that was a very fulfilling and moving and changing experience for me, as I think it is for many people. The shuso experience is a very special time, I think, in a person's life. And I was afraid.

[09:20]

I was afraid to give dharma talks. I wondered what on earth I would think of to talk about, and I was afraid of the ceremony, which is probably pretty scary to almost anyone. People told me that actually it's probably good if you're a little bit scared or a lot scared, that maybe the more scared you are, the better. And people also told me that something happens during the ceremony, that you're in this procession, and there are the incan and the clackers and the drum, and it's all very dramatic, and you walk around the Buddha hall very slowly carrying the staff, and you recite some very moving words, and in the process of all that, something happens. And I thought, well, I suppose it does for some people.

[10:21]

I suppose maybe it did for you, but I'm sure it's not going to happen for me. But it kind of did, actually, and that gave me some kind of faith. And I can't tell you exactly faith in what, whether it was faith in Buddhism or faith in myself. I think it was faith in this process, that there is some intelligence under it all that I don't fathom, but I feel it. And so that experience also was very inspiring for me and helped me on my way to practice. And when you're shuso, it can be a little bit of a high because you're the center of attention for a long time. And so I deliberately waited a little while to be sure I had both feet on the ground

[11:26]

before I asked Michael Wenger if he would ordain me. And he readily agreed to do so. So in April of 2005, I was ordained after 23 years of practice at Zen Center. And that's unusual, as you may have noticed. Actually, my teacher exceeds me. I don't know how long. How long did you practice before you were ordained? I don't know either, but it was longer than 23 years. I think for different reasons. I think Michael had a real commitment to lay practice. Whereas in my case, it was more that I couldn't see myself in that identity. I had a problem with taking on the identity of a priest.

[12:29]

I think for one thing, I felt unworthy of it. I didn't feel like a religious person. I didn't feel like I was being called. So what would I be doing doing that? But on the other hand, I loved the way of life, and I couldn't get myself to leave or go anywhere else either. So somehow, with all these experiences, the wonderful practice period, the time issue, I decided that that was enough, that everybody has a different story, and that was mine, and it was good enough, and this is what I wanted to do. And I also wanted to affirm that commitment to myself, to say to myself, this is who I am, and this is what I'm doing with my life. This is the first thing.

[13:30]

So that's what I did, and maybe to some people's surprise, I went through with it. And I would say I've been very happy that I kind of feel like I'm expanding into the role a little bit, or that I just feel more comfortable with the role as time goes on, and I certainly have no regrets. At the same time that I asked Michael to ordain me, or roughly the same time, I also asked to be relieved of my responsibilities as graphic designer, so that was another big step, and it was part of the whole changing my identity,

[14:33]

changing how I felt about what I was going to do with my life to something new. And so I began a rather lengthy transition out of the graphics job. Zen Center had been depending on me and my assistant for a long time. That's how they had gotten used to doing things, and so they had to think about what they wanted to do if I wasn't going to do that, and they came to the decision that they would like to outsource graphics and have a content coordinator. This person is still with us. It's Tanya Takacs, and she gathers up the information for our printed pieces and interfaces with a professional design firm. So as part of this transition,

[15:35]

the powers that be had to decide to do that, find somebody to be the content coordinator, find a design firm. I had to pass on the materials and equipment and knowledge that that person might find useful from my experience, and all of that took some months. So by February, which was, I don't know, six or eight months later, I was ready to take another job. And there weren't too many positions available at that time, but I was very lucky to be just in time to work for the Tazahara Reservations Office during the summer, and I worked with Ana Malo and Steve Kelly and Bob Tesuti and Rob Hines and had a really wonderful summer.

[16:39]

It was very different from what I had been doing in that it was nine to five. I could go and work hard all day and then go home and not think about it, and that was quite different from graphics, where I actually just felt like I worked all the time. And it was also very inspiring for me to talk to the guests on the phone and listen to their appreciation for the existence of Tazahara, how much they loved the place and how many years they had been coming, and so it was a very nice way to spend the summer. So I had all along, throughout this entire process, planned to go for the Tazahara practice period that Linda Ruth is leading right now at Tazahara. But after all this transition stuff,

[17:44]

I sort of wanted to begin my actual life that I was going to have and not have one more step of transition, so I decided not to go. And instead, the position of work leader was offered, and I took it. And actually, it feels just like being at Tazahara to me. I don't know if I can explain that. It's that I definitely follow a schedule. I do it for my own sake as well as the sake of people I work with. It's practice all the time, or as much of all the time as I can get myself to do. It just feels very Tazahara-like. I work with the guest students. They're new and fresh and enthusiastic,

[18:45]

and it's, I think, a wonderful position. I had some misgivings when I took the job. It's possibly I'm a bit of a counterintuitive choice for the position because I'm not big and strong, and I'm not handy. I don't know how to use tools. I'm not mechanically inclined, so I was a little worried, and people would say things to me like, well, that's a big job. Are you sure you want to do that job? And I don't especially like housework. I love living in a clean house, but I don't especially like getting it that way, and I also don't feel comfortable asking other people to do something I don't want to do. So I have never had a job at Zen Center that I didn't like,

[19:48]

but I was a little bit afraid that this might be the one, but it so far hasn't turned out that way, and I think Zen Center sometimes does this. We put someone in a position that doesn't quite match their aptitudes and skills. We have had tensos that can't cook. Well, I mean that really haven't ever cooked. I think of David Shadwick, and during his term as tensor, we ate very well because he had this wonderful, trained French chef for a foucaultin. And we've had people in the shop. I don't know. Blanche was in the shop. Did you have a background for that? Did you? Okay. And Julie Burtis, some of you remember.

[20:49]

I think she went in pretty cold and really enjoyed it. So we do this sometimes. We put someone in charge of something they know very little about, and then you have to figure out what to do, and you talk to prior work leaders. We have three of them. We have Catherine Shields and Carol Benjamin and Mark Lancaster, so they're great resources. And the other senior staff members have been working with the work leaders, so they have some sense of the job. And the maintenance staff helps me. John Lombardi and Adrian and Keith Baker have all helped. And the crew, of course. People arrive every day with skills that I don't have, and they can help me. So it's actually a lot of fun to try to figure things out, and so far I think it's going okay.

[21:55]

I'd like to talk a little bit about the challenges that I have found. Last week there were 10 people on the crew, and that's, I think, a lot. I found it pretty hard to manage. I thought of Dogen and his instructions in the Tenzo Kyokan that you should be very attentive to what's going on and all of that, but there would be six different jobs going on in six different places, and I felt like all I could do is trust that the wonderful guest students and Zendo students would do it right and take care of things, and they have. When the crew is that large, I also tear my hair out a little bit, thinking of things for them to do. Huh?

[22:58]

I forget. You know, I really forget that I don't have any. Well, maybe that's what happened to it. So I definitely do not want to make up make work. Fortunately, I like things clean, and so we can clean endlessly, and it doesn't seem to me like make work. I hope it doesn't to the people who are doing it. Another problem that I really struggle with is that Zen Center attracts talented, smart people who've been successful and done things in the world, and they come here to practice, and they go in the general labor crew where we're the janitorial staff. We do the cleaning and repairing, and in our culture, that is low-status work,

[24:09]

and I really feel it at Zen Center. I feel like Zen Center has a lot of really intelligent people and that these people are on these crews. I think we're a little bit like Wobegon in that all the children are above average. So people get bored or want to do something more creative or challenging, and I feel like my job and my wish is to somehow enable, encourage people to take advantage of this particular time in their lives,

[25:19]

this particular time on their path of practice where we have the leisure to do physical work, staying in our own bodies and minds, paying attention to our tools and to the objects we're cleaning or repairing and paying attention to our breathing and really practice, really take zazen into our work practice. I think work practice is much more challenging, actually, than sitting in the meditation hall. It's so much easier to forget, to socialize, to want things to be different, to prefer to be doing something else. We all do those things all the time,

[26:21]

and I think it is so valuable to have this opportunity to try to turn that around in ourselves, to try to appreciate the moment and what we're actually doing, and it's very difficult. So that's a big challenge for me. I suppose that's the main challenge, to do it myself, to feel it myself and to be able to encourage others in that direction. So in that sense, I think the position of work leader is a sort of beginning teaching position. There is much to learn, and we're all trying to learn it. And there are a lot of opportunities.

[27:23]

Every time a guest student comes, I get to do zazen instruction. We have guest student teas that I and other people lead. There is some opportunity for study, and we have this continual situation of trying to experiment with different ways of work practice and working with each other. When I come over to the building and I see how clean and beautiful it is, I feel really happy. And then sometimes I see something that's amiss that I didn't notice, and I feel really embarrassed. Or I feel even more embarrassed when somebody else points it out to me, and I think, how could I not have seen that? But on the other hand, I'm grateful for the community support

[28:27]

that encourages people to do that. The first couple of weeks that I was in this job, several times it happened that people asked me to do something specific, and I either hadn't gotten to it yet or forgot about it entirely. And then that person walked up to me and thanked me for doing it so promptly, which, of course, meant someone else had done it. And it just, you know, on the one hand, it was a little bit embarrassing, and on the other hand, it reminds me that I'm not doing this alone, that we're all here helping out, and I really appreciate that. Sometimes I get really tired, but I'm getting stronger. I run up and down stairs a lot and just move a lot more than I used to.

[29:30]

And usually after a night's sleep, I feel pretty good and full of energy. I think my favorite thing about the job is that it feels so integrated into the community. I feel like I'm really enmeshed in everyone's practice and that I'm one of the pillars on which the community rests, and I really enjoy the close participation with people at all levels at Zen Center. I'm enjoying the integration very much. I hope I will get better at all these things. As I said, I think it's really a perfect job for a new priest who's just beginning to prepare to try to encourage oneself and others to practice.

[30:39]

I'm still thinking about what the program should be and what I will do, and I don't know what it's going to look like. But I'm enjoying it, and I appreciate your support, and I appreciate the guest students and the Zendo students so much. Thank you. Do we have time for questions? Okay. We could take a couple of questions if there's anything you want to ask. Yes, Tanya. I want to say I really appreciate that you're leaving, that you went through a period of time where you didn't go to the Zendo College. I think for people who are residents here, it's really something you look at and relate to. And I wonder for you during that time that you weren't going to the Zendo College, what was it that kept you here, and what was your practice?

[31:51]

Well, it was partly a family feeling, and it was partly practice in the past that I knew I loved in some way, but I was having trouble getting back to it. And what kept me away from the Zendo was a pull about time. You know, I would feel like I don't have time. Now, we all have the same amount of time, so I was kidding myself in some way. But I loved the way of life, I guess, that we have here. And the more immersed I am in it, the more I can say that. When I stop practicing, I know I want to be here, but I can't quite articulate it. I'm not so sure that I can say it. But something kept me here because I wanted to be here. Is that clear enough? Okay.

[32:58]

Yes, Isla? What's the difference in awareness of putting a sandwich together for somebody who hasn't had any food in all day, and sweeping the street? What's the difference? I don't think there's... In terms of training. In terms of what? In terms of training. Training. I don't think there's a difference between the two activities. You know, there might be some surround that's different, but I think that either activity lends itself to mindful practice. So is there something like value practice and less value practice? Well, that's kind of what I was talking about with the status thing.

[34:03]

I think... I think it's valuable in the circumstances we have here to be able to practice whatever we're doing. Because we're not always doing what we want to be doing. Sometimes we're doing zazen, and sometimes we're doing qianhan, and sometimes we're making sandwiches, and sometimes we're sweeping a yucky floor. The idea, I think, is to try to practice equally in any of those circumstances. It's very... You know, I don't know. It's very challenging. I do understand that practice stays the same,

[35:05]

but the value of the work in itself, is there such a thing as a value? Yes, there is. But it might be hard to sort it out. And I would not neglect the value of serving the community here either. Taking care of this community also, I would say they're equally important. Yes. Oh, Adam. How has your practice...

[36:08]

How do you characterize how your practice has expanded and deepened since becoming a priest? It's a level of commitment. It's a definition for myself and others of what I do and what my life is about, what my plans and goals are about. And it's also on a feeling level that I can't really explain. Yes, Yuan. I have a question about how much time do you devote to meditation, and how much time do you devote to reading books, trying to understand what Zen is about. And what if you're too tired from all day of work, and you have no energy to read, and when you meditate, what would you be thinking about? I didn't hear the...

[37:09]

What would you be thinking about, meditating about? We question many things about life, right? And if I don't get more new knowledge from Zen, I have no resource to think through those things. I think it can be of value to read, but I don't think it's necessary. I think there have been really good practitioners who were not readers. I think of Isan Dorsey, for example. He just didn't read books much. And I also think of the practice at En Taiji, where Shohaku Okamura came from, where they didn't have services, and all they did basically was sit all day and a good part of the night. So you may not want to do that. You may not think that's what you want to do, but I don't think reading is necessary.

[38:11]

It may be helpful and inspiring. I find that physical work is very tiring and very frustrating for me because I get very tired at the end of the day and I can't concentrate on my reading. On your reading? I see. Well, try giving up your reading for a day and see what happens. Concentrate on your practice, just as an experiment. Experiment and see if that helps. It's probably getting... Okay, if there's any burning questions, I'll take it. And if not, we'll stop. Okay, thank you very much.

[38:59]

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