we may not know so much about. And to also keep in mind from looking at the film how out of our innocence and good intention we can sometimes bring harm without meaning to. I think you'll understand my point at the end of the film. So let's watch it together. Thank you very much. There are periods when there's a kind of relaxing on the part of the Chinese regime in Tibet.

[01:28]

And then there'll be a kind of tightening up and a reinstating of very harsh conditions and rules. People that I know who are trying to do work in Tibet consistently report that the strictness and more lax mode comes and goes. So it's not a kind of steady state situation at all. And I think right now, with the acknowledgement on the part of some of the Chinese leaders, government leaders, to widespread unrest throughout China, which is, of course, what's been happening in Tibet, The government is now really backed into a corner in terms of the kind of widespread upset and reaction and protests and all of that that's beyond what they can control any longer. So when that begins to happen, particularly in Tibet, things tighten up.

[02:36]

I've been told by people who are in and out of both China and the Tibetan region that there's been for some time a lot of fear on the part of the Chinese regime, particularly with respect to the Muslim minority, particularly in eastern China. And so very harsh clamping down when there's any kind of protesting or whatever. It's now widespread enough so that for the Chinese to be openly acknowledging that they're in real trouble. That's really new. Yes. Yes. That I don't know. I know that when the film first came out, there was a lot of criticism, being too harsh, being too political. And it certainly is, from a certain point of view, a very political film. But I also think, for me, it's very much a film about the suffering in the world.

[03:41]

This kind of treatment is happening, not just in Tibet, not just under the Chinese regime. And we need to understand what our capacity as human beings is for harm as well as for openheartedness. And I think what makes this film powerful is that it is very specific about three particular people and it is that specificity that communicates something that I think is useful to us rather than something more generalized. I found the disparity between the kind of agitation that I felt, especially in the scenes with the nuns and the prison and all, with the extraordinary beauty of the photography was itself extremely disturbing and powerful. But I can't tell you what kind of distribution the film has had.

[04:42]

I don't know. Yes, back there. My husband and I both some while ago decided that we would not go to Tibet even if we could afford to. It's very expensive to go there. I wasn't keen on giving this regime our money. But friends of ours who have gone have said that it seems to help the Tibetans enormously, especially if people who go to Tibet are Buddhist practitioners, but particularly to know that there are people in the world who know about them and know about their situation. And to just have that sense of connection with other people who are on the same path. But of course, as with the character of Amy in this film, it's very easy to be foolish.

[05:47]

And it's very easy to, out of good heartedness, act in a way that ends up harming the people that you leave behind in Tibet. So it's very important that if people go, they don't take those kinds of risks that might harm the person, the Tibetan people who befriended you. And you have to be careful. I mean, even people that I know who've gone to Tibet a lot... talk about needing to be very attentive and very careful about what they do, who they talk to, all of that, because, of course, everybody is being scrutinized. So I've heard this from enough people over the years to be convinced that it does help the Tibetans there to know that they have friends in the rest of the world. And, of course, they are rapidly becoming a minority in their own country. which is an extremely effective way of, um, ending the Tibetans' culture and what they know about their way of life.

[06:52]

Children, if they want to get an education, get an education in the Chinese system, may even be sent away to schools outside of Tibet. There's a real systematic patient dismantling of traditional culture, which is so interlaced with Buddhism for the Tibetans that it's a much bigger loss than we can imagine, I think. So my sense is that the consensus seems to be that it does help to go and express our heart feeling of connection. Yes? Mm-hmm. And I was somewhat taken aback when one of them brought us into her room and pulled out a picture of the Dalai Lama and put it out right out there.

[07:56]

And I felt I did not want to be responsible for something bad happening. And also gave us their addresses and urged us to write to them. But then we decided we should not do that. Also, I wanted to ask you, when we see children dressed in uniforms going to Chinese school all over the place, isn't this going to have a tremendous effect on the next generation? Yes, that's absolutely part of the plan. Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. Yeah. Yes. Yes. of the story where the singer don't learn and her being torn between the economic words that can be associated with Chinese culture. I think that's how it's going to be. The folks that I was able to speak to later at the restaurant, the folks at the hotel, and they will readily acknowledge that these are free people who are part of the entire country, but they will say that without the Chinese, they're only Japanese.

[09:11]

Right. So there are real economic advantages for people who cooperate. But, you know, also this character in the film was also caught by being famous, by being featured on TV. And the other thing that you see in the film is widespread drinking. A lot of those kinds of changes, the fact of the karaoke bar, that whole scene is not your classic Tibetan scene in downtown Lhasa. At least one is led to believe that. I think in the traditional culture, certainly there was lots of beer drunk, but this seems to be a different order of magnitude. And a kind of despair. I think the brother who was so angry and shut down, the bum, there is a kind of despair, especially among young Tibetan men, not just in Tibet, also to some degree in some of the exile communities.

[10:18]

So it's a very, very difficult situation. But, you know, I think one of the kind of teachings in this film has to do with the way we can get caught by greed for money and fame and all that. That's human. I'm a bit confused. In Xi'an, the top floor of one of their cultural museums was dedicated to minorities. Well, the Tibetans have not cooperated. And I think there's historically been a tremendous amount of fear with respect to the kind of hold or influence or reverence or however you want to put it that the Dalai Lama has with the Tibetan people, which I think for the Chinese in this current regime is hard to fathom.

[11:31]

And so he is described in very despicable terms. One of his brothers has, over a number of years, been engaged in discreet, not publicized negotiations to try to make it possible for some kind of dialogue to open up again. And it's been pretty discouraging. for a long time. Recently I read something that suggested that maybe there might be some opening up in dialogue between this regime and His Holiness the Dalai Lama. But I think that there's a kind of bafflement on the side of the Chinese leaders because the Dalai Lama has a kind of influence among the Tibetan people that's just hard for the Chinese to read, hard for them to understand. and and unnerving i think fear is is much more operative you know we see the harshness we see the torture in the prisons we see this regime of fear fear used as a controlling factor but it's also affecting the people who are exacting that particular means of control and uh

[12:51]

When you looked at certain scenes in this film where there are hundreds of pilgrims around the Jokhang in Lhasa doing prostrations with their prayer wheels, muttering mantras, it's just unfathomable for some of the Chinese leaders. So, you know, and there's also lip service about respecting minorities. Then there's also what do you do with them when there are protests or resistance. That's a whole different story. Okay, one more. they had tried to show it at a film festival in Washington, D.C., and the Chinese embassy put pressure on that it would not be shown. And then just another small item, I thought it was very interesting in the film when the young nun was burning for English book.

[14:01]

When we had visited Tibet last November, we went with just about seven people And our local Tibetan guide to the nunnery there is Lhasa. And two of the nuns asked for help in their English work because they had the homework they wanted to do. And one of the young nuns took us up to her room. And in the privacy of her room, she told us that she goes to English school. in the main village square and lost them. And the young man who is teaching the English class, he's had to close it down several times because the Chinese authority catches him and they close it down. But he still functions as a local guard and earns money that way so he can teach young Tibetans. Well, this is the kind of irrepressibility of the Tibetans that's driving the Chinese in power, so-called in power, nuts.

[15:04]

I mean, what do you do with these people? They just won't behave. Uh-huh. How interesting. That's very interesting. Uh-huh. Thank you very much. That's very interesting. Thank you very much. Good night. Thank you.

[15:56]

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